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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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mikey cee
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Gord]
      #5834104 - 05/01/13 11:07 AM

-My 6" F10 is far below a good C8 on planetary and appears to have some sort of edge defect
-Sean found his 6" F15 to be less sharp than a Jaeger's 6" F15
-Tom found his 5" F8 R30 to be less sharp than his Surplus Shed 5" on Jupiter
-Jim's recent test here of Jim's 4" F12 where he feels it's similar or slightly better than a Synta 4" achro

There was another test I saw that the owner found the 6" F15 he had to maybe have around 1/5 wave of SA. To me, all this is presenting a picture of average to some good (although it seems the average of everything is rising overall these days). I'm certainly not seeing spectacular and would love to see some examples of "sizzlers" as Jim says. The law of averages says there have to be some really good ones out there, but it's certainly not appearing that this is common.
This is hogwash. It's purely anectdotal and I won't accept it. How do we know that AP, Tec and TMB don't toss one or two before you get their final stab at it? Hence some justification for the higher prices. If they don't then they spend more time hand figuring the original. Either way the price reflects that cost. Istar's prices are in line with their quality or Ales and Mike wouldn't let them out the door. You want more tests? Where do you suppose these test lenses will come from? Can't come from Ales he'd surely cherry pick those. You got it....people who don't demand a test to begin with. I'm beginning to believe Istarmullet on this one. Mike


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Gord]
      #5834156 - 05/01/13 11:34 AM

I've said my piece on this one. I'll defer my next comments on this topic until after there is a publicly available, independent, objective test report for one of the large Istar optics. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Jim Curry]
      #5834191 - 05/01/13 11:49 AM

Jim, who made the knobs for the focuser?

Also, I'm flabbergasted seeing the scope on the CG-5. I was a nervous Nelly with it on the DSV-3, which is beefier than my CG5 and felt more comfy with it on an Atlas.

I'll disassemble and box it up tonight. I should be able to get it to the UPS store for return home tomorrow. And thank you for the opportunity to use the scope. It was a pleasure.

It makes me want a nicer quality long focus 4-inch tube assembly than my Antares. I am being drawn by Richard's new Skylight 101/1500s...

- Jim


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Jim Curry
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/29/07

Loc: STL
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5834440 - 05/01/13 01:42 PM

Jim:

I did all the machine work on the scope including the adapters for the rotating AP focuser.

No prob on the CG5.
Jim


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Jim Curry]
      #5834530 - 05/01/13 02:25 PM

Jim,

Is that A-P focuser a 2.7" as well? They make beautiful stuff.

Clear skies,


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5834664 - 05/01/13 03:30 PM

Quote:

This is hogwash. It's purely anectdotal and I won't accept it. How do we know that AP, Tec and TMB don't toss one or two before you get their final stab at it? Hence some justification for the higher prices. If they don't then they spend more time hand figuring the original. Either way the price reflects that cost. Istar's prices are in line with their quality or Ales and Mike wouldn't let them out the door. You want more tests? Where do you suppose these test lenses will come from? Can't come from Ales he'd surely cherry pick those. You got it....people who don't demand a test to begin with. I'm beginning to believe Istarmullet on this one. Mike



Mike,

It's an absolute certainty that A-P, TEC, etc do have to throw out glass that is not up to par. It's been talked about here many times. They also do a lot more finishing work (and testing!) to ensure that their products are at the quality level they are. And yes, it does reflect in the price (and availability) of the products. And keep in mind that not ever lens they have ever shipped is at the same quality the current ones are. They have been improving their processes and testing, but I don't think there are many 1/2 wave A-P's out there!

As to IStar's price point, they are made to a price point. They are also not made by IStar and I'm pretty sure they don't test every one of them. Bad ones have gotten out. The price point and process mean this is bound to happen at some point.

There seems to be two messages in this thread:

1. They are perfect, mine is great, I'm happier than I could ever be, you couldn't ask for anything more, and stop asking for meaningless tests!

2. Don't expect an Astro-Physics for IStar money! You may get one, but there's no data to really tell so it's likely to be similar to other common vendors, or it could be a stinker.

Clear skies,


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dscarpa
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: B. Cook]
      #5834695 - 05/01/13 03:54 PM

Does anybody that has one of their 140 F/12 triplets care to weigh in? Istar is coming out with a 140 F/7.5 APO. I would like to get a 140 triplet at some point but after ordering a 11" Teeter STS that's on the back burner. David

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Jim Curry
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/29/07

Loc: STL
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Gord]
      #5834697 - 05/01/13 03:54 PM

Hey Gord:

Yes, that's one of AP's 2.7" Traveler focusers. It is a buttery smooth product.

Jim


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watcher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/21/07

Loc: St. Louis, MO
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Gord]
      #5834701 - 05/01/13 03:58 PM

Quote:


Mike,

It's an absolute certainty that A-P, TEC, etc do have to throw out glass that is not up to par. It's been talked about here many times. They also do a lot more finishing work (and testing!) to ensure that their products are at the quality level they are. And yes, it does reflect in the price (and availability) of the products. And keep in mind that not ever lens they have ever shipped is at the same quality the current ones are. They have been improving their processes and testing, but I don't think there are many 1/2 wave A-P's out there!

As to IStar's price point, they are made to a price point. They are also not made by IStar and I'm pretty sure they don't test every one of them. Bad ones have gotten out. The price point and process mean this is bound to happen at some point.

There seems to be two messages in this thread:

1. They are perfect, mine is great, I'm happier than I could ever be, you couldn't ask for anything more, and stop asking for meaningless tests!

2. Don't expect an Astro-Physics for IStar money! You may get one, but there's no data to really tell so it's likely to be similar to other common vendors, or it could be a stinker.

Clear skies,




Wrong on both points Gord. I have read every post in this thread, and no one said their Istar is perfect. Also, the fact that you assume that lack of data acceptable to you is proof that Istars quality level is is going to be similar to other run of the mill vendors is an indication of bias in itself.

I was told by Ales YEARS ago that the lenses that they don't finish themselves (some are finished by Istar) are made to a minimum 1/5 wave. If anyone gets something less than acceptable, they make it right. If you don't think that's worth Istar prices, then don't buy an Istar. It will keep production waiting times reasonable for those of us who appreciate above average quality for a fair price, and innovative products that nobody else cares to produce. If you are unsure of your ability to judge a scopes quality for yourself by looking through it, then send it off to be tested. If you can judge for yourself, trust that Istar will not stick you with a "stinker".


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mikey cee
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: watcher]
      #5835020 - 05/01/13 07:01 PM

Yeah Gord and no two lenses ever produced are identical just like snow flakes. Sure AP and Tec all guarantee and test their lenses so all will be above a minimal standard. But pray to God that one of you folks never gets the "crummy" 97 strehl when the guy before or after you gets the 98 strehl lens. I want test reports on the entire production run so I can see if I've been taken. Ha Ha Ha seems life's a riot from one day to the next anymore. Mike

Edited by mikey cee (05/02/13 10:55 AM)


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tomharri
sage
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: USA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5835130 - 05/01/13 08:05 PM

Istar R30 a semi-ED

Beats the heck outta any achro you've ever seen

Then why all this hate mail page after page

From people who have never used one not even a glance

Are they afraid these will render their $$$-scopes obsolete

As China brings big refractors affordably back to life

I for one salute them as I add to my collection

And can't hardly wait for the next Mars apparition.


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john@dps
member


Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: Granada Hills, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: tomharri]
      #5835351 - 05/01/13 10:31 PM

I will say it again, this is a whole lot of depth for a 3000$ scope. These aren't 30,000$ apo's perfection is a lot to ask for 3000$.

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De Lorme
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/30/08

Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: john@dps]
      #5835394 - 05/01/13 11:06 PM

I haven't heard of anybody dissatisfied with Istars scopes.
But I have read reviews saying their good. I read{some where
in this forum}that he sold his Istar telescope because of
mount issues,but when he got a better mount he wished he had the bigger Istar Achro.
A buisness lives or dies by reviews and customer service.
Both of which have been above averge. We all know the saying
"wanting something for nothing" Could this be happing here?
Expecting Istar to give you a $3,500 refractor lens for
$1700 is "expecting something for nothing".
The more critism said here about Istar, will make those looking for a large refractor lens skeptical about getting a fare deal. There is no evidence at all about Istar giving
bad customer service or a bad product.
But just keep saying it and when they go out of buisness
you can put the final nail in the coffin by saying that they just wern't good enough.
That's just what we need to see another lens manufactor going out of buisness. Their suppling a product for us who
will never be able to afford the top of the line that are
good and at a price point we can afford.
How about backing off and let the market place decide
whether thier good enough?
De Lorme


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galaxyman
Vendor - Have a Stellar Birthday
*****

Reged: 04/04/05

Loc: Limerick, Pa
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: De Lorme]
      #5835462 - 05/01/13 11:50 PM

What I would like to see (read) is more actual observing reports (in detail please) from owners of Istar's.

For instance the 6" and larger on DSO's (my specialty).

A telescope no matter of type is useless if not subjected to the night or sky.


Karl
E.O.H.


Chesmont Astronomical Society - www.chesmontastro.org
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Galaxy Log Blog - http://galaxylog.blogspot.com/
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Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB/APM 8" f/9 Refractor”The Beast”. One great DEEP SKY achro
ES 6" f/6.5 achro. Good one
Celestron Omni XLT 102 refractor.
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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/07/10

Loc: Davison, Michigan
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: galaxyman]
      #5835507 - 05/02/13 12:38 AM

yeah maybe something like tightest splits or highest useful magnifications(some of those mentioned)

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john@dps
member


Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: Granada Hills, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #5835915 - 05/02/13 09:59 AM

I 2nd Buddyjesus.

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Rutilus
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/17/10

Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: john@dps]
      #5836795 - 05/02/13 05:26 PM

I'm wanting to spend some time with my Istar 150mm f/15, but work is getting in the way at the moment.
I have a decent Synta 150mm f/8 that does well with double stars and even gives nice planetary views when
used with filtration.

I want to do side by side comparisons to see how both scopes perform.


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De Lorme
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/30/08

Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Rutilus]
      #5836863 - 05/02/13 06:00 PM

I hope you can do it soon. I also have a CR6" that I think
is pretty good. Cannot wait to see how they compare.
De Lorme


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neotesla
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Canada
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: De Lorme]
      #5837220 - 05/02/13 08:55 PM

I haven't read through this entire thread, too much acrimonious bickering for my tastes, but it seems that price is a major issue for this discussion. With that in mind, D&G achros are well regarded and are pretty much the same price as similar sized Istar scopes, without the long wait times for delivery. Would it not be a better comparison of these two scopes versus the high end Tak, TEC, and AP scopes comparisons? These are both achros with the same FL as well, a much better discussion than trying to compare achros to apos in my opinion, especially when these two are pretty much the same price and optical design. Istar scopes are all classic doublet achros or modified achros.

Personally, I am considering an Istar scope as a future purchase. Why? Good price point and many satisfied users, that's usually good enough for most people to buy into a product. As well they appear to be actively R&D-ing their optical and OTA design.


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Paul C-I
super member


Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: neotesla]
      #5837719 - 05/03/13 07:13 AM

I would like to add here at this point that I would not have parted with the best part of $3K for a lens (being produced at this moment) had I not had the very positive experiences from a previous early achro lens from Ales and his continued superb personal customer service.
Home built 8" F12 R35, here I come! (build and results to be shared on this site)
Paul


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