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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: City Kid]
      #5775453 - 04/03/13 12:30 PM

City Kid said,

"I spent too much of my life around people that justify this mild paranoia. "

And I find that perfectly understandable and reasonable.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!

In my area there are periodic rashes of break-ins and theft of anything metal for sale to scrap dealers is a real problem.I had to basically run off several locals who began a self-guided tour looking for anything metal.

Inquired about a sign:"this place protected by poverty;there's nothing worth stealing", but couldn't afford it!


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #5775455 - 04/03/13 12:32 PM

Quote:





Shouldn't you have a soda to wash that down?


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Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: City Kid]
      #5775469 - 04/03/13 12:39 PM

Quote:

In the neighborhood I grew up in the only reason anyone other than a close friend would want to know the value of anything was to gauge whether or not it was worth the effort to try to steal it.




Hey, at least that's a rational motivation -- unlike the people who inquire because of social status or jealousy.


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Paco_Grande
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/12

Loc: Banana Republic of California
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: BigC]
      #5775470 - 04/03/13 12:39 PM

Quote:

...

By the way,the sky here is clear tonight.That is a FACT.




But it's not a fact here.


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Kraus
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/10/12

Loc: Georgia.
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5775478 - 04/03/13 12:42 PM


Everyone,

Watch Herr Flander's 'Sky Week' every week on S&T's website.

Tony,

I look very forward to each presentation as I do each new S&T issue. I hope you can keep up your offering well into your ninties. Let's see if you can outlast Sir Moore.

Thank you.


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Paco_Grande
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/12

Loc: Banana Republic of California
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5775507 - 04/03/13 12:56 PM

Quote:

..However, pure curiosity is a perfectly sufficient motivation.

.



No such thing as pure curiosity, there is always a motivation behind curiosity.

Let me continue to be the contrarian on this.

"Why do you want to know how much I paid?"

"Well, I dunno. Just curious, that's all."

"How curious are you?"

"I dunno, why?"

"If I made a list of model numbers, would you be interested in getting on the internet and discovering for yourself how much I paid?"

"Hmmm, how many things would I have to look up?"

"Well, the list would probably contain about 25 items. It's more than that, but 25 would be a good start."

"25? Wow, that's a lot. Might take me a few hours."

"Ya think?"

"I'm not *that* curious."

"Oh, so you're saying that you're curious but not curious enough to do all that work, all that work that I had to do, not including all the research time, costly mistakes, and other costs and effort, to achieve what you see here in front of you?"

"Well, when you put it that way…"

"How would you answer me if I asked you the same thing?"

"I'd tell you to bugger off." [chuckle]

"Consider you've been told to bugger off." [more chuckles]

"Wanna beer?"

"Sure thing."



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Paco_Grande
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/12

Loc: Banana Republic of California
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: Paco_Grande]
      #5775522 - 04/03/13 01:03 PM

BTW, I appreciate everyone's tolerance to my often long-winded and opinionated posts. I try to write 500 to 1,000 words a day, every day, and I'm afraid you guys and gals are often exposed to my daily practice.

Thank you all.


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: "How much did that cost?" new [Re: bluesteel]
      #5775523 - 04/03/13 01:03 PM

Quote:

For all the people fearful of being asked for theft, looking the person in the eyes for a couple of seconds will be able to read their intentions immediately... unless they are just drooling with envy and awe at the setup, which can also be easy to read. You do not need to have a PhD in body language for this either...
Bear pepper spray could add to the ease of mind as well, and not just for the two legged animals.
...and a crossbow and battle ax strapped to your back will surely avert any questions or disturbances of people altogether!


If it were that easy we wouldn't need detectives and trials.Many people are quite good at concealing their bad intentions.

My fraternal grandparents did NOT discuss money with anyone they didn't feel needed to know,and taught that asking was impolite.Nor did they think it was proper to tell a child"we can't afford that";it was changed instead to "no,you may not have that".

Cultural background.


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bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: ILM
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: BigC]
      #5775733 - 04/03/13 02:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For all the people fearful of being asked for theft, looking the person in the eyes for a couple of seconds will be able to read their intentions immediately... unless they are just drooling with envy and awe at the setup, which can also be easy to read. You do not need to have a PhD in body language for this either...
Bear pepper spray could add to the ease of mind as well, and not just for the two legged animals.
...and a crossbow and battle ax strapped to your back will surely avert any questions or disturbances of people altogether!


If it were that easy we wouldn't need detectives and trials.Many people are quite good at concealing their bad intentions.

My fraternal grandparents did NOT discuss money with anyone they didn't feel needed to know,and taught that asking was impolite.Nor did they think it was proper to tell a child"we can't afford that";it was changed instead to "no,you may not have that".

Cultural background.



Sorry, but the vast majority of people that are going to commit crimes like petty theft all the way up to knocking off a convenience store or small branch bank are the people that are blatantly obvious to read. The people that are much more difficult to read have better things to steal than your telescope... and they don't get caught (unless you have a solid gold example that a Saudi King would be proud of). An example that comes to mind is the art theft of Boston from the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. Those type of people have far better targets to gather info on than you and your telescope... and if it is over $20,000 your setup(random number), I am willing to bet they do not want to carry that sucker anywhere.


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ubermick
super member
*****

Reged: 04/12/12

Loc: San Rafael, CA
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: bluesteel]
      #5775910 - 04/03/13 04:15 PM

Jeez. All I can say after reading through this thread is that I'm glad the folks in my local astronomy club weren't the sort to immediately assume that I was a thief, time waster, tire kicker, or whatever you want to call it. Thanks to some friendly folks at a star party I stumbled on 18 months ago, my interest in the hobby was reignited with a passion, I'm now a member of the club (and a few thousand in the red, haha) and happy to help others in the way that I was helped initially.

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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: bluesteel]
      #5777726 - 04/04/13 01:25 PM

I have to disagree.

Certainly not everyone or even a big percentage is a thief.

But you are wrong about petty theft.Else eyepieces and other small items wouldn't "walk away" at gathering.Probably any vendor can tell you of the "shrinkage" at his event table.It happens at camera shows and hamfests,it happens every day in retail stores. The annual total from shoplifting far exceeds what a holdup takes from a store.It happens at star parties too.

I note several other posters have had similar experiences of those asking costs only to ridicule the scope owner,and theft obviously varies tremendously with the area and people.

Each of us will just have to use our judgment as to which approach feels best where we are when asked.


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Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/09/09

Loc: Newington, CT
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: BigC]
      #5777839 - 04/04/13 02:15 PM

Quote:


But you are wrong about petty theft. Else eyepieces and other small items wouldn't "walk away" at gathering.




Certainly that happens. Which is why any tools, spare eyepieces, etc. I bring to such an event live in my pockets. I might 'lose track' of a planisphere or flashlight, but I'm certainly not going to set down an eyepiece.

That having been said, I don't think it likely that putting a dollar value on a scope or mount is going to increase the likelihood of someone stuffing my refractor into a pocket.

Perhaps you deal with people with REALLY BIG pockets?


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Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: Thomas Karpf]
      #5777908 - 04/04/13 03:05 PM

I asked a fellow what his scope cost the other night and he read me the riot act and accused me of many things, none of which I am guilty of.

Of course I apologized and introduced myself.

Then he told me his name was Perry. Perry Noya


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TL2101
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/17/10

Loc: Concord, Ca
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: Kfrank]
      #5777946 - 04/04/13 03:25 PM

I just break the cost down on a mile per viewed basis like mpg. I explain on that basis it's the least expensive hobby gear on the planet.

Edited by TL2101 (04/04/13 05:35 PM)


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: Kfrank]
      #5778124 - 04/04/13 04:49 PM

Hyperbole.

Simply re-directing the conversation is as effective and much more polite.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: BigC]
      #5778562 - 04/04/13 09:03 PM

Quote:

Each of us will just have to use our judgment as to which approach feels best where we are when asked.




I suspect we all have different images in our minds how this question might be asked, in what context.

If someone were to walk up to me and immediately asked how much the scope cost, I probably would be reluctant to give a straight answer. But that's not the conversation or context I have in mind. In my mind, I am thinking of a conversation that has resulted in some mutual respect and trust..

I ask this question: If you had been talking with someone for 15 minutes and the person had shown genuine interest in the amateur astronomy, would you still be reluctant to share what you equipment had cost?

Jon


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Feidb
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Nevada
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5779233 - 04/05/13 09:40 AM

I just don't see the big deal.

An observation. 90% of the time, the people that ask me how much my scope, OR my eyepieces cost are usually outreach people that have never looked through a scope before. New amateurs have already been drooling through the catalogues and already know the prices so they rarely ask except to either confirm or see if I got a special deal.


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
*****

Reged: 01/12/09

Loc: Land of clouds and LP
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: Feidb]
      #5779275 - 04/05/13 10:10 AM

If I had so many thieves and crooks around like the majority if people on here I would never go out. I am not careless but have loaned my equipment out to many people and never worried about it. Use your judgement, when lots of people are around I close my case but when observing with people I know we share and share alike. As to what stuff costs I never had an issue, although if the person looks shady I do, it wasn't cheap but it costs a lot less than for example owning a motorcycle or a boat.

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steve-in-kville
sage


Reged: 12/24/07

Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: hfjacinto]
      #5780181 - 04/05/13 05:12 PM

Nice to see my thread is still drawing replies.... and good ones!! Keep 'em coming!

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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art


Reged: 11/10/03

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: "How much did that cost?" [Re: steve-in-kville]
      #5780483 - 04/05/13 08:45 PM

I get this question a lot, and I really dislike it. Many times people lead with it. If I'm out there giving people an experience with astronomy, "How much does it cost?" seems like the most trivial, irrelevant, inconsequential, shallow question there could be. They might as well ask me what brand of toothpaste I use. I usually deflect the question. Sometimes I'll quote the price of the cheapest telescope I can think of that would give similar views. But I'm really not out there to talk about money.

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