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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Tobias Mennle
journeyman


Reged: 04/04/13

made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside...
      #5778996 - 04/05/13 05:05 AM

I tested a Minox 8x42 BV made in Germany limited edition and an Olympus 8x42 EXWPI made in Japan, they seem to be exactly the same construction. So what´s inside... where do the parts come from... and where were they assembled?

made in...


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Tobias Mennle]
      #5779379 - 04/05/13 10:55 AM

The Minox BV is in fact made to Minox,s spec in China, however its a good example of the fact that China is now capable of turning out some good glass, heck even Zeiss are getting stuff from there.DA.

Edited by Binojunky (04/05/13 11:03 AM)


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charen
Carpal Tunnel
****

Reged: 05/28/05

Loc: New Zealand
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5780101 - 04/05/13 04:30 PM

I have had both the Olympus series EXWP I in 8x42 and 10x43 and for the price they do give good optical performances. The 10x does have a wider Afov at 60 degree while the 8x is narrower at 50.4 degrees. The 10x however does have slightly more CA.

'Made in Germany' 'made in Japan' does appear to be a somewhat nebulous term now. This does make it a challenge for those who may not want Chinese made products due to the political climate and the human rights and slave labour concerns there.
I am aware that’s an issue outside the parameters of this forum.

Chris


Edited by charen (04/05/13 04:32 PM)


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Joad
Wordsmith
*****

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: charen]
      #5780386 - 04/05/13 07:30 PM

A tip off here is the price of the "Made in Germany" binocular. If it was entirely made in Germany, it would be much much much more expensive. My best guess would be that something like what has been going on with Swiss watches is going on here. A watch can say "Swiss made" on it if something like half of its production cost comes from Switzerland. What this means is that every part can be manufactured, at very low cost, in, say, China, and then partially assembled, at very low cost, in China, and then shipped to Switzerland, where high labor costs can add half of the value to the watch with only a small amount of actual assembly there.

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Mapleton
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/06/09

Loc: United States
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Joad]
      #5781604 - 04/06/13 11:30 AM

I don't think you can get a German made bino for that price.

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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Joad]
      #5781627 - 04/06/13 11:41 AM

Quote:

A tip off here is the price of the "Made in Germany" binocular. If it was entirely made in Germany, it would be much much much more expensive. My best guess would be that something like what has been going on with Swiss watches is going on here. A watch can say "Swiss made" on it if something like half of its production cost comes from Switzerland. What this means is that every part can be manufactured, at very low cost, in, say, China, and then partially assembled, at very low cost, in China, and then shipped to Switzerland, where high labor costs can add half of the value to the watch with only a small amount of actual assembly there.





To qualify for Swiss Made its got to be 51% Swiss content and cased up in Switzerland, the rest can be and usually is from the far east, Ronda have a factory in Thailand assembling movements from part shipped from Switzerland, to get a 100% Swiss Made watch be prepared to pay a lot, say several thousands, even companies like Tissot,Hamilton etc are getting cases, parts etc from the far east, apologies for going off topic.
My Zeiss binoculars that I purchased last year are in fact made in Hungary, people driving cars that they think are better than the average would wet their pants if they knew how much China stuff was in them, DA.


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Joad
Wordsmith
*****

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5781670 - 04/06/13 12:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A tip off here is the price of the "Made in Germany" binocular. If it was entirely made in Germany, it would be much much much more expensive. My best guess would be that something like what has been going on with Swiss watches is going on here. A watch can say "Swiss made" on it if something like half of its production cost comes from Switzerland. What this means is that every part can be manufactured, at very low cost, in, say, China, and then partially assembled, at very low cost, in China, and then shipped to Switzerland, where high labor costs can add half of the value to the watch with only a small amount of actual assembly there.





To qualify for Swiss Made its got to be 51% Swiss content and cased up in Switzerland, the rest can be and usually is from the far east, Ronda have a factory in Thailand assembling movements from part shipped from Switzerland, to get a 100% Swiss Made watch be prepared to pay a lot, say several thousands, even companies like Tissot,Hamilton etc are getting cases, parts etc from the far east, apologies for going off topic.
My Zeiss binoculars that I purchased last year are in fact made in Hungary, people driving cars that they think are better than the average would wet their pants if they knew how much China stuff was in them, DA.




Actually, not quite. While the Swiss government is struggling to change the law, the current ordinance which has governed the use of the words "Swiss made" has been summarized as follows from a news article published just a month ago:

"The 40-year-old 'directive' currently governing the use of the 'Swiss Made' stamp used for watches . . . says at least 50 percent of the value of only the watch movements must be made in Switzerland.

This means cost-conscious watchmakers in the lower-priced segment can import 100 percent of the cases, dials, hands and straps and still mark their watches 'Swiss Made' as long as half of the parts of the watch movement are made at home."

Here's another quote from the same Yahoo! news article:

"'Thanks to current weak Swiss laws, watches produced almost entirely in China can be sold legally under the "Swiss Made" label,' Jean-Daniel Pasche, chairman of the Swiss watch federation (FH), said in a telephone interview."

Edited by Joad (04/06/13 12:16 PM)


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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Joad]
      #5785468 - 04/08/13 09:07 AM

that's surprising, I (naively) thought the swiss watch market was still producing the majority of it's goods domestically. Even the Swiss are outsourcing. It's enough to make you want to toss your Rolex in the bin (if I owned one).

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Joad]
      #5787186 - 04/09/13 12:11 AM

Then you have to take into account the fact that if those "Swiss" watches are going to be sold outside of Switzerland (such as in the USA) the country of origin designation on those goods must comply with the destination country's labeling regulations.

Regards,

Jim


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5787731 - 04/09/13 10:07 AM

Thank heavens for that. Otherwise I wouldn't know that the Zeiss microscope eyepiece I bought from Zeiss for $300, which sucks, was made in China. The eyepiece is labeled Zeiss, but no where on the eyepiece is there any mention of China. That only showed up on the plastic bolt case that had a sticker on it and the invoice. The offender is Zeiss 44 42 32. The bad news is some folks on Cloudy Nights told me it was the vaunted "aspheric ortho". Not.

Now the good news. I was very cautious when purchasing a pair of Zeiss binoculars. The Conquests that I liked got mixed reviews and are made in Hungary, or as Zeiss calls it "the European Union". The Conquest HDs ARE actually made in Germany, so I bought the 10X42s which are excellent optically and mechanically.

Be very cautious.

Edited by RodgerHouTex (04/09/13 10:14 AM)


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: RichD]
      #5787809 - 04/09/13 10:56 AM

Quote:

that's surprising, I (naively) thought the swiss watch market was still producing the majority of it's goods domestically. Even the Swiss are outsourcing. It's enough to make you want to toss your Rolex in the bin (if I owned one).





Rolex watches are 100% Swiss made, as they should be at the price they command,DA


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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5787831 - 04/09/13 11:08 AM

Quote:

Thank heavens for that. Otherwise I wouldn't know that the Zeiss microscope eyepiece I bought from Zeiss for $300, which sucks, was made in China. The eyepiece is labeled Zeiss, but no where on the eyepiece is there any mention of China. That only showed up on the plastic bolt case that had a sticker on it and the invoice. The offender is Zeiss 44 42 32. The bad news is some folks on Cloudy Nights told me it was the vaunted "aspheric ortho". Not.

Now the good news. I was very cautious when purchasing a pair of Zeiss binoculars. The Conquests that I liked got mixed reviews and are made in Hungary, or as Zeiss calls it "the European Union". The Conquest HDs ARE actually made in Germany, so I bought the 10X42s which are excellent optically and mechanically.

Be very cautious.




I have a pair of the Hungarian Zeiss Conquests, no complaints at all, well made, nice optics, even though they are only an 8x30 they are as bright as some 40mm glasses I,ve owned,DA.


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Kimmo Absetz
super member


Reged: 10/12/05

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5788319 - 04/09/13 02:36 PM

From what I've heard, the Zeiss Conquest HD's are "Made in Germany" the same way as the above mentioned Swiss watches are made in Switzerland.

Fine binoculars though (or because of that?)

Kimmo


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5789911 - 04/10/13 10:10 AM

Yes, but unfortunately they are assembled by machines just like Timexes. The last review I read of an Explorer II commented that when disassembled they were burrs on parts, jewels drilled off center, and debris inside. Not what you would expect for an $8000 watch.

For the money I think Breitlings are a better deal. They are Swiss made and still assembled by hand.

Edited by RodgerHouTex (04/10/13 11:59 AM)


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Kimmo Absetz]
      #5789918 - 04/10/13 10:14 AM

Yes, unfortunately manufacturers with excellent reputations are playing shell games with us the consumers and ripping us off. It is near impossible to find out where things are made and assembled now days.

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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/25/10

Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5790123 - 04/10/13 11:49 AM

Quote:

Yes, but unfortunately they are assembled by machines just like Timexes. The last review I read of an Explorer II commented that when disassebled they were burrs on parts, jewels drilled off center, and debris inside. Not what you would expect for an $8000 watch.

For the money I think Breitlings are a better deal. They are Swiss made and still assembled by hand.






Off topic here, but the Rolex I purchased was 20yrs old, bought as a gift then put away with its original box, documentation etc,its the same with any premium optical equipment, look around and you can often drop on as new stuff for a fraction of the price, some of the premium scopes out there are way over priced IMHO new, used however can be a different story, DA.


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: made in germany? japan?? china??? what´s inside... new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5790141 - 04/10/13 12:00 PM

Very true.

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