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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Big Bang vs Steady State new
      #5773949 - 04/02/13 08:33 PM

It's been a long while since we've read anything about this famous old controversy. Can someone remind me what the definitive evidence was that knocked the steady state theory into a cocked hat?

/ira


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ILikePluto
member


Reged: 02/17/09

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: Ira]
      #5774289 - 04/02/13 10:10 PM

This is answered in Ken Croswell's book The Universe at Midnight--in particular, in the chapter "Big Bang Battles":

1. Giant elliptical galaxies all seemed to be equally old (pages 54-55), suggesting they formed just after the big bang.

2. Counts of radio galaxies disagreed with steady state predictions (pages 55-59).

3. The universe has too much helium (pages 59-61), which was made mostly in the big bang.

4. The cosmic microwave background (pages 61-63) is the big bang's afterglow.


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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: ILikePluto]
      #5774318 - 04/02/13 10:23 PM

All cosmologies suffer from exactly the same problem, negative significance - more input than output. So there is no controversy, only an unwillingness to admit that cosmology isn't really science.

-drl


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: deSitter]
      #5774685 - 04/03/13 03:42 AM

Ummmm...is that really compelling evidence?

/Ira


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ILikePluto
member


Reged: 02/17/09

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: Ira]
      #5775385 - 04/03/13 11:47 AM

Yes. In The Universe at Midnight, Ken Croswell interviewed the three architects of the steady state theory--Hermann Bondi, Thomas Gold, and Fred Hoyle.

Hermann Bondi's quote (page 64 of The Universe at Midnight) is quite eloquent:

"I had said, 'If there was a big bang, show me some fossils of it.' Helium was the first fossil. Very early on, I saw the large abundance of helium as an Achilles' heel of the steady state theory."

There's also this quote from Fred Hoyle (pages 63-64 of The Universe at Midnight):

"Tommy Gold and Hermann Bondi had for long urged the predictability of their version of the theory as its outstanding virtue, and yet here, in the microwave background, was an important phenomenon which it had not predicted. Bad."


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Rudra
super member


Reged: 07/02/10

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: ILikePluto]
      #5777625 - 04/04/13 12:51 PM

Sorry but the Big Bang proponents calculated the temperature of the CMBR way off the actual figure. Whereas Arthur Eddington calculated the the temperature of relic starlight and came close to the now established value. Whereas Gamow and Company got their calculations all wrong!

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ILikePluto
member


Reged: 02/17/09

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: Rudra]
      #5777717 - 04/04/13 01:21 PM

That's not true. In 1948, Ralph Alpher and Robert Herman calculated that the universe had a temperature of about 5 Kelvin--versus the actual value, we know today, of 2.7 K: Nature, 162, 774.

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HiggsBoson
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/21/07

Loc: Kal-li-fornia
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: Ira]
      #5782054 - 04/06/13 03:30 PM

Quote:

It's been a long while since we've read anything about this famous old controversy. Can someone remind me what the definitive evidence was that knocked the steady state theory into a cocked hat?

/ira




I have heard that the consensus swayed toward the BB away from the SS theory due it its three observational pillars:
  • The BB predicts the distribution of elements in the universe. This means the ratio by mass of hydrogen to Helium and other elements. The SS is silent on this issue providing no insight to the composition of the universe.
  • The BB predicts that there must be a Cosmic Microwave Background which was observed in the mid 60s. The SS provides no prediction of this nor does it explain its presence.
  • The BB requires that the universe be expanding. This was observed by Hubble. The SS allows for expansion but provides no testable consequences that would falsify the BB and support SS.


Note. I have not expressed an opinion on these pillars I only assert that they ended the debate between the two theories.


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deSitter
Still in Old School


Reged: 12/09/04

Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: HiggsBoson]
      #5782064 - 04/06/13 03:35 PM

The BB "predicts" nothing about element distribution. A model can be tuned. A model is tuned. A model is crowned.

It's true, the SS, being cosmology, is helpless. Cosmology is not science, it is mathematical mythology.

-drl


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EJN
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: Ira]
      #5782775 - 04/06/13 10:16 PM

What ever happened with the Horrendous Space Kablooie as proposed by Calvin &
Hobbes?

Link


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State [Re: EJN]
      #5782936 - 04/07/13 12:20 AM

It's the real thing!

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Unknownastron
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: CatsEye Observatory,Rural Sout...
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5797718 - 04/14/13 12:18 AM

I think "The Big Bang Theory" is much funnier than "The Steady State". Nothing seems to happen on the latter but on the former the guys are always involved in zany antics!
Clear skies and clean glass,
Mike


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davidpitre
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/10/05

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: deSitter]
      #5798367 - 04/14/13 01:54 PM

Quote:



It's true, the SS, being cosmology, is helpless. Cosmology is not science, it is mathematical mythology.

-drl



Danny. You make this forum so much fun. Seriously. Your presence is appreciated.


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HiggsBoson
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/21/07

Loc: Kal-li-fornia
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: davidpitre]
      #5798927 - 04/14/13 05:15 PM

One day at work I was asked for my position on the Big Bang Theory. I spoke for over 2 minutes before I noticed several people giggling and realized that I was being asked about a TV show…

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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Big Bang vs Steady State new [Re: HiggsBoson]
      #5800437 - 04/15/13 12:30 PM

Penny and Priya are hot

but Bernadette is a supernova!!


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