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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5794514 - 04/12/13 01:52 PM

Just an update: After 4 days, I have 15 individuals for the letter.

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Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5794592 - 04/12/13 02:15 PM

Quote:



I'll make a little noise.

I have an LS8 which, after a few weeks, I found to have a problem. I called Meade customer service and, with no fuss or muss, they provided a shipping label and instruction to get it back to them.

Meade turned it around in 14 days, not counting travel time. I got it back today. Everything was repackaged neatly, the necessary work was done and they even cleaned the corrector for me. Looks like new.

I had called a couple times during the two weeks the scope was with Meade and they were polite, professional and informative.

I hadn't bought a Meade telescope in years, I think the last one was an LX 50 a long time ago but my experience with Meade customer service was excellent.

I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to do business with Meade, but people considering a Meade purchase should be aware that others have had a positive experience with Meade service.




What puzzles me about posts like yours is that you obviously realize some people have issues with Meade. You don't so you jump in to defend Meade.

Do you feel as though you have done your good deed for the day? Has it occurred to you that one day you may be on the other side of the fence. There is a good chance that everyone with a problem with Meade was on your side at one time. Don't be saying it will never happen to me.

Post like yours make me think of someone walking up to a lifeguard and saying "Excuse me sir, I am an expert swimmer and the noise being made by that drowning man is very annoying. Would you please tell him to drown somewhere else". I can see someone from Meade saying "Can't you see all the people out there enjoying themselves. Pay no mind to that man out there. You will spoil everyone's day."


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Lorence]
      #5794654 - 04/12/13 02:32 PM

Quote:

What puzzles me about posts like yours is that you obviously realize some people have issues with Meade. You don't so you jump in to defend Meade.




What puzzles me is that some folks think that publishing only one point of view serves the public well. Of course we need to hear about the problems. We need to hear about the non-problems as well - otherwise how can people gauge reliability?

A quick note to the original poster:
Your letter is one letter and will carry the weight of, at most, one letter. When you claim to also speak for others, the recipient is very likely to either (a) doubt that you do speak for others, or (b) decide that since the others didn't feel strongly enough to write for themselves they don't really care and can be discounted. Your message would have more credibility and greater effect if your individual experiences are described.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5794804 - 04/12/13 03:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What puzzles me about posts like yours is that you obviously realize some people have issues with Meade. You don't so you jump in to defend Meade.




What puzzles me is that some folks think that publishing only one point of view serves the public well. Of course we need to hear about the problems. We need to hear about the non-problems as well - otherwise how can people gauge reliability?

A quick note to the original poster:
Your letter is one letter and will carry the weight of, at most, one letter. When you claim to also speak for others, the recipient is very likely to either (a) doubt that you do speak for others, or (b) decide that since the others didn't feel strongly enough to write for themselves they don't really care and can be discounted. Your message would have more credibility and greater effect if your individual experiences are described.




John,

Both sides need to be heard and until recently I've been on the pro-LX80 side of the fence... still am for the most part. The biggest worry I have is a repeat failure of the top plate of the tripod after it is out of warranty. But, there are other issues with the mount that don't currently effect my use. It is unfortunate that problems are reported more than good point on just about everything. I write software for dental offices and get very few calls or emails about how nice a new feature is, it is problems that get noticed and reported.

Hope you are wrong about the impact of a single letter. Each individual involved will have a paragraph or 2 about their problem or concern and each person will be identified in some way. So it will really be a single document from X number of individuals.

And, a non-related note: Love the looks of your new LX850! Hope you get it set up soon and can report how you are doing.


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Daud
sage


Reged: 08/05/06

Loc: AZ, Scottsdale
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5795007 - 04/12/13 05:34 PM

If I would put my AP130GT on LX80, the top plate breaks and I have $$$$ loss, what can I take from Meade ?

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jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Lorence]
      #5795460 - 04/12/13 09:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I'll make a little noise.

I have an LS8 which, after a few weeks, I found to have a problem. I called Meade customer service and, with no fuss or muss, they provided a shipping label and instruction to get it back to them.

Meade turned it around in 14 days, not counting travel time. I got it back today. Everything was repackaged neatly, the necessary work was done and they even cleaned the corrector for me. Looks like new.

I had called a couple times during the two weeks the scope was with Meade and they were polite, professional and informative.

I hadn't bought a Meade telescope in years, I think the last one was an LX 50 a long time ago but my experience with Meade customer service was excellent.

I'm sure you have your reasons for not wanting to do business with Meade, but people considering a Meade purchase should be aware that others have had a positive experience with Meade service.




What puzzles me about posts like yours is that you obviously realize some people have issues with Meade. You don't so you jump in to defend Meade.

Do you feel as though you have done your good deed for the day? Has it occurred to you that one day you may be on the other side of the fence. There is a good chance that everyone with a problem with Meade was on your side at one time. Don't be saying it will never happen to me.

Post like yours make me think of someone walking up to a lifeguard and saying "Excuse me sir, I am an expert swimmer and the noise being made by that drowning man is very annoying. Would you please tell him to drown somewhere else". I can see someone from Meade saying "Can't you see all the people out there enjoying themselves. Pay no mind to that man out there. You will spoil everyone's day."




I'm sure you think you have a good reason for your hatred of Meade. I don't care what it is.

But you seem to think you're the only one entitled to express an opinion. Get over yourself.

Perhaps you should read the post above by the poor guy with the $9,000 Paramount that doesn't work and what he's going through.

Sounds like the company selling the $900 mount is providing better service than the one with the $9,000 mount.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5795505 - 04/12/13 10:25 PM

Quote:

I'm sure you think you have a good reason for your hatred of Meade. I don't care what it is.

But you seem to think you're the only one entitled to express an opinion. Get over yourself.

Perhaps you should read the post above by the poor guy with the $9,000 Paramount that doesn't work and what he's going through.

Sounds like the company selling the $900 mount is providing better service than the one with the $9,000 mount.




Clam Down a bit... I don't think Lorence's post indicated that he hated Meade. I don't hate Meade... There are 2 sides to the story. All this post is about is finding individuals that have a reason to be unhappy with a single Meade product. That's all! I've been a supporter of Meade in general and of the LX80 in specific but there seem to be some valid concerns about the mount.

Please feel free to start a thread to discuss the plus side of Meade and/or the LX80. I'll post there also.

And yes, there are problems with kit in all price ranges.


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R L Harris
member


Reged: 01/31/13

Loc: Tecumseh, OK
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5795658 - 04/12/13 11:49 PM

There are always few who take a post and turn it into a fight!
When were trying help to let company know what
peoples concerns are with product to help that company
so those that having issues and those that would buy
if issues were fixed.
Bottom line these issue can hurt this company when no one wants to buy the product!

Edited by R L Harris (04/12/13 11:53 PM)


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jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Mkofski]
      #5797059 - 04/13/13 04:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm sure you think you have a good reason for your hatred of Meade. I don't care what it is.

But you seem to think you're the only one entitled to express an opinion. Get over yourself.

Perhaps you should read the post above by the poor guy with the $9,000 Paramount that doesn't work and what he's going through.

Sounds like the company selling the $900 mount is providing better service than the one with the $9,000 mount.




Clam Down a bit... I don't think Lorence's post indicated that he hated Meade. I don't hate Meade... There are 2 sides to the story. All this post is about is finding individuals that have a reason to be unhappy with a single Meade product. That's all! I've been a supporter of Meade in general and of the LX80 in specific but there seem to be some valid concerns about the mount.

Please feel free to start a thread to discuss the plus side of Meade and/or the LX80. I'll post there also.

And yes, there are problems with kit in all price ranges.




Another one anxious to hammer Meade but doesn't want others to express an opinion.

I understand you dragged your mount on the ground and the plate broke. I understand Meade is sending you a new one under warranty.

I don't understand this anxiousness to bash Meade. To round up others to bash Meade.

I'm sure that each person needing a warranty repair to an LX80 has contacted Meade and they are aware of their issues.

For you to take up the pitchfork and rouse the villagers to go after the monster a bit heavy handed.

I also understand that you don't like the fact that I posted a positive comment about Meade and interrupted your bash fest.

Sadly, as fewer young people get involved in astronomy we end up with disproportionate number of angry old guys.


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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5797177 - 04/13/13 05:10 PM

Quote:

Another one anxious to hammer Meade but doesn't want others to express an opinion.

I understand you dragged your mount on the ground and the plate broke. I understand Meade is sending you a new one under warranty.

I don't understand this anxiousness to bash Meade. To round up others to bash Meade.

I'm sure that each person needing a warranty repair to an LX80 has contacted Meade and they are aware of their issues.

For you to take up the pitchfork and rouse the villagers to go after the monster a bit heavy handed.

I also understand that you don't like the fact that I posted a positive comment about Meade and interrupted your bash fest.

Sadly, as fewer young people get involved in astronomy we end up with disproportionate number of angry old guys.




I really don't see where there is any Meade bashing going no here. If you read other LX80 threads, i have been a supporter of both Meade and the LX80. I've had 2 support issues and Meade took care of the fast and free of charge. Can't fault them at all for what they have done for me.

That said, again, the only intent here is to get a group of individuals to,point out our concerns about the mount. My kit is very light compared to the published specs for the mount but maybe in a year or 2 when the mount is out of warranty I will want to use a heavier OTA. Or maybe I want to gt into AP. the specs for the mount vastly overstate what individuals using the mount have found. There are lots of happy users that don't push the published limits of the mount and that's great form them.

I'd love to see a revised LX80 that is better than the current mount. That would be good for me and great for Meade. Ioptron and SkyView both sell a combo AltAz/Plar mount now that are more than 2 times the price of the LX80. How many of those would sell if the LX80 performed as well as the spec sheet implies? How many LX80s would sell if the initial reports had been 80% favorable rather than 80% negative? I don't expect Meade to read whatever we send and say "Holy s*** we need to recall all the LX80s and send 85s out to all the current owners". Whatever we send will probably do no good at all except to make a few of us feel a bit better.

There is one issue that dosent relate to the specs and that is the design of the tripod's top plate. There have been 3 fail the same way. If I owned a $2,000 (or more) refractor I wouldn't put it on this mount. This is a problem that could effect ANY user somewhere down the line regardless of how happy they are with the current performance. This IS somthing that could and should be addresses by Meade.

Mike


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R L Harris
member


Reged: 01/31/13

Loc: Tecumseh, OK
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5797184 - 04/13/13 05:14 PM

jimb1001 he and the rest of us not bashing meade but
stating our concerns in order to try and help us
the users of the product and company maker of product!
But you apparently are blind to this fact lol!

Edited by R L Harris (04/13/13 05:15 PM)


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: R L Harris]
      #5797243 - 04/13/13 05:54 PM

The dismissing of criticism as "Meade bashing" is IMO part of the problem. It tends to mean that perfectly legitimate criticism and feedback about problems is ignored instead of finding its way back to the people who can fix it.

Chris


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Lorence
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/15/08

Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5797263 - 04/13/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

I am not a Meade basher, just an unsatisfied customer that believes that if enough people make enough noise Meade will do what is necessary. In the long run everyone except for Meade's competitors will benefit.




That was a comment I made a few posts back. Are those the words of a Meade hater? Seem to me those are the words of someone who is concerned about Meade, it's problems and it's customers.



Quote:

I'm sure you think you have a good reason for your hatred of Meade. I don't care what it is.

But you seem to think you're the only one entitled to express an opinion. Get over yourself.

Perhaps you should read the post above by the poor guy with the $9,000 Paramount that doesn't work and what he's going through.

Sounds like the company selling the $900 mount is providing better service than the one with the $9,000 mount.




Thank you for your choice of an example of the sort of problems people are having.

You have just made it perfectly clear that you have no idea why some of us are unhappy with Meade.

That poor guy that you so are so willing to throw your support to is upset because Bisque wants him to fix his mount by himself.

That is exactly what Meade will not do. Do your best to understand what I just said. Meade will not lift a finger to help someone repair his own mount.

I had a faulty Main board in my LX200. I would gladly have paid Meade $300.00 for a replacement board. Meade refuses to sell anyone replacement parts. My only choice was to ship the entire telescope back and they would fix it for $400.00 plus parts plus shipping.

I eventually bought a used part. It took me less than an hour to fix the telescope and put it back on the mount. Had Meade sold me that part this conversation would not be happening.

As long as Meade refuses to sell parts these conversations will keep happening. Whether you like it or not.

By the way take another look at the Bisque thread. Tell us all how many Paramount owner jumped into the thread with a comment like

"I love my Paramount and have never a problem with it. Why do you Paramount haters keep posting here. I don't care what your problems are."

Why do Meade owners do that?

I have a problem with Meade that was created by Meade. I will continue to express my opinion and I'll do it every time someone like you tries to protect Meade's image. I will at least give you the credit for reporting a positive repair experience. Most simply respond with nothing more than blind faith.

As for who seems to think they are the only ones entitled to express an opinion it might be a good idea for you to reread your own posts.

I will get over myself when Meade changes it's policy.

By the way, just who has been telling who to shut up? Is it possible my comments struck a nerve. I guess it's true, the truth hurts the most.


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ahopp
sage


Reged: 05/24/12

Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Lorence]
      #5797652 - 04/13/13 11:09 PM

Lorence, You statement that Meade will not help a customer do a field repair is not really accurate. Meade helped me adjust the mirror lock on my 14". It required taking the mirror lock knob off and adjust the position of the housing. Do not want to get mixed up in the rest of this thread, just wanted to clear the record on one point you made...

Tony


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bilgebayModerator
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 11/06/08

Loc: Türkiye - Istanbul and Marmar...
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: ahopp]
      #5797955 - 04/14/13 08:36 AM

Gentlemen, please be nice to each other and keep the discussions limited to the topic.

Thank you all.

Mounts forum moderator


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JimMo
I'd Rather Do It Myself


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5797977 - 04/14/13 09:00 AM

I have an LX80. I bought it to use as an alt/az mount for different OTA, but also wanted to dabble in some wide field photography. Meade's advertised specs for the mount made it very promising that I would be able to do this with the mount. Why make it with a polar mode if it can't hold the weight that THEY advertised or track correctly with auto guiding. I don't know if the firmware fix helped the latter but the lie about how much it would carry is a big thing.

Mike and I have not been bashers of Meade in the least. We just want Meade to at least acknowledge a design flaw and maybe do something for us with a future update of the mount. They did it with the high end users of the LX800 now LX850. I just feel like a schmuck for believing the specs would be as advertised. They should know many of us, who are vocal here on CN, are unhappy and will probably not consider another Meade product again do to their misrepresentation of the advertising and the actual specs of the mount.

I've said the mount works good in alt/az when not overloaded(20 lbs. max) and I resigned to keep the mount and make the best of it. If they don't hear from us as a group of active CN users they might have no idea there are so many disgruntled customers of the mount. I doubt it, though. But, I don't think a well composed letter with every signer personally detailing their misgivings with the mount is a bad idea at all. The more who sign on the merrier.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Lorence]
      #5798137 - 04/14/13 11:34 AM

Quote:

By the way take another look at the Bisque thread. Tell us all how many Paramount owner jumped into the thread with a comment like

"I love my Paramount and have never a problem with it. Why do you Paramount haters keep posting here. I don't care what your problems are."

Why do Meade owners do that?




Not pointing to any person in particular, just a general comment. The behavior you describe is due to cognitive dissonance. Basically, we all want to think we are wise individuals and we make good decisions. And we will bend over backward to convince ourselves of that. We all do it, it's part of how we get through life. A corollary of cognitive dissonance is that the less comfortable I feel that I have made the correct decision, the more aggressively I will deride those whose information threatens my view of the wisdom of my purchase. If I am comfortable with my purchase, naysayers will have no effect on me. That's why the SB owners didn't call the guy with trouble a hater. That's why when Tak owners were catching a bunch of flak on old S.A.A. instead of attacking those who were dissing their scopes, they had t-shirts made with Tak Yakuza, skull and crossed refractors and all. That's why AP owners don't get aggressive when people diss AP. For more info, Elliott Aronson wrote an excellent book called The Social Animal, well worth the read.


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DuiA1
super member


Reged: 05/07/12

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: Paul G]
      #5798331 - 04/14/13 01:42 PM

Jim, well said. +1. I'm in the exact same situation. I purchased the mount to eventually get into AP. Visual was my primary purchase for my AR6 At 23 lbs. The mount/scope damping time was terrible at 11 seconds. Sent the mount back and they repaired the slop issue. Unfortunately, the plastic gears failed once I got it back and was testing it indoors. Meade has been pretty good in repairing this mount again but to be honest, I'm losing confidence in this mount design and worry about failure once our warranty is up. I thank Mike and the rest of you who signed up to document the issues we have had for being on the bleeding edge. I believe we should be asking for some assurance that if metal gears or a change to a non spring loaded worm gear are implemented, we would get them installed at no charge. Thoughts on this approach?

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Mkofski
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/19/11

Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA
Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 new [Re: DuiA1]
      #5798399 - 04/14/13 02:01 PM

Quote:

Jim, well said. +1. I'm in the exact same situation. I purchased the mount to eventually get into AP. Visual was my primary purchase for my AR6 At 23 lbs. The mount/scope damping time was terrible at 11 seconds. Sent the mount back and they repaired the slop issue. Unfortunately, the plastic gears failed once I got it back and was testing it indoors. Meade has been pretty good in repairing this mount again but to be honest, I'm losing confidence in this mount design and worry about failure once our warranty is up. I thank Mike and the rest of you who signed up to document the issues we have had for being on the bleeding edge. I believe we should be asking for some assurance that if metal gears or a change to a non spring loaded worm gear are implemented, we would get them installed at no charge. Thoughts on this approach?




I think the approach would be a solution I'd be very happy with.

The way I see it is the problems are in 2 catagories; Performance and reliability. The tripod top plate should be redesigned and a more reliable one supplied to all users. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for a gear upgrade if that were to become available. The tracking performance may be improved with new firmware but I haven't even been able to check that out with the latest release.

As with most all the individuals I've heard about that had problems, Meade has worked to fix problems as they arrive. I'd like to see an extension of the warranty period.


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ur7x
sage


Reged: 01/08/12

Re: A letter to Meade about the LX80 [Re: Paul G]
      #5798412 - 04/14/13 02:04 PM

Quote:


Not pointing to any person in particular, just a general comment. The behavior you describe is due to cognitive dissonance. Basically, we all want to think we are wise individuals and we make good decisions. And we will bend over backward to convince ourselves of that. We all do it, it's part of how we get through life. A corollary of cognitive dissonance is that the less comfortable I feel that I have made the correct decision, the more aggressively I will deride those whose information threatens my view of the wisdom of my purchase. If I am comfortable with my purchase, naysayers will have no effect on me. That's why the SB owners didn't call the guy with trouble a hater. That's why when Tak owners were catching a bunch of flak on old S.A.A. instead of attacking those who were dissing their scopes, they had t-shirts made with Tak Yakuza, skull and crossed refractors and all. That's why AP owners don't get aggressive when people diss AP. For more info, Elliott Aronson wrote an excellent book called The Social Animal, well worth the read.




Great post, great observation. Only thing that can be added is that the "Oh no you didn't"...crowd don't get is that sometimes "thou does protest too much". The over compensation is obvious.

One of my first posts to this forum was a simple question asking for an update on LX80 delivery, if anyone had one, had used one, if we had any details as to why it was so late, and why was my local Meade dealer trying to sell me a floor model CGEM instead. "Defenders" came down on me like... well...



One of those very members here, was so off putting that at least in part because of his personal attacks I decided to buy the competitor's mount, loved it so much that I bought a second one for travel. The Meade defender who posted "This isn't the mount for you" and then a bunch of personal nastiness cost his favorite company at least two sales worth almost $3,000.

Quote:

I pre-ordered and prepaid for one of these units until someone here finally spooked me into bailing out after a 6 or 9 month wait. Whoever that was......I owe you a beer! One look at a photo of the gear train and I knew I'd made the right decision.

I'd fit into group 3 and would help if need be....but I think you are wasting your time, frankly.





My story closely matches this. I'm in group three too. I own several Meade products, mostly eyepieces, a 80mm guide scope and some imaging items. I like them all, and all have had zero issues. But I'm done with Meade. I just bought a $2,000ish SCT OTA for my "Orange" mounts, I didn't even cross shop anything "blue".

Mike, I appreciate your effort here, but lets be realistic, we know that Senior Meade Staff regularly read these threads. (We know this since they post here from time to time) Your letter will tell them nothing that they don't already know. If Meade was going to change their customer service polices and resolve the engineering issues with the LX80, they would have done so by now.

Either way, good luck


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