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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5792184 - 04/11/13 11:44 AM

IMO, the adapters are definitely the bottlenecks for the Leica ASPH Zoom - figuratively and perhaps literally, too.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792201 - 04/11/13 11:56 AM

I think I've read every thread on CN about the Leica ASPH several times each. What turns me off more than anything when considering the Leica, is the interminable discussions about adapters, extensions, rings, etc. that are apparently necessary to get the things to work optimally in various telescopes. At $800 - or is it $950 now? - I'd hope that the Leica would work well enough right out of the box. I guess not ... at least not for what I want to do with it.

Mike


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dyslexic nam
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792221 - 04/11/13 12:05 PM

This may be suggesting the obvious, but have you emailed Markus to inquire about the ease of switching adapters? I would think he could clarify pretty quickly.

I am curious about this too since it would also allow those who may want/have the zoom for use in a spotting scope to 'double-dip' and use it for astronomy.


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RodgerHouTex
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792228 - 04/11/13 12:08 PM

One other thing I was wondering about is there is a discussion in the Vendors section about the adapters damaging the zoom mechanism because of the set screws being tightened too much. For my Zeiss made adapter for the Ziess Diascope eyepiece I have, the eyepiece has a bayonet adapter that you just twist to lock the eyepiece in the adapter. Is that how the Leica adapter works or is the eyepiece only held in by a set screw or screws?

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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: dyslexic nam]
      #5792246 - 04/11/13 12:17 PM

Quote:

This may be suggesting the obvious, but have you emailed Markus to inquire about the ease of switching adapters? I would think he could clarify pretty quickly.

I am curious about this too since it would also allow those who may want/have the zoom for use in a spotting scope to 'double-dip' and use it for astronomy.




No, I haven't yet. Of course I'd thought of that. But first I'd rather see what ideas and experience is out there from observers who have used the Leica's in different scopes and hopefully worked out these problems. The manufacturers and vendors don't always know what can be done or not done with their products.

Apparently some things are better done with a Leica with a 2" adapter, other things with a 1.25" adapter. I am really surprised that this hasn't come up as a big sticking-point for the Leica's. It would be nice to have a choice that doesn't commit oneself to either one path or another, but instead allow both.

Mike


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792297 - 04/11/13 12:44 PM

Mike,

Here is Leica ASPH Zoom eyepiece with Starlight Instruments' 2" adapter.
I asked them to build custom adapter before. Now they are selling the adatper as standard product.

The 2" adapter is bayonet adapter to attach eyepiece, the bottom of 2" adapter has M48 and M42 threads. On right, Baader part# T2-14 1.25" nosepiece.

You can use T2 1.25" adapter to make it 1.25" eyepiece (need extra inward focus distance).
You can use standard 2" filter. But not both



Baader #T2-14 (1.25" nosepiece) attached at bottom Starlight Instruments's adapter:


From left to right, APM 2" adapter (M42) for Meopta Zoom, APM old Leica ASPH Zoom adapter, Leica ASPH Zoom on top of Starlight Instruments's adapter:


Size comparison in 1.25" mode:


Tammy


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Ain Soph Aur
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792308 - 04/11/13 12:49 PM

The APM 2" adapter is attached to the barrel of the Leica with three rather small non-metallic set screws. Attaching the adapter is pretty easy, although one has to make sure the set screws are screwed in very firmly to keep the eyepiece from rotating in the adapter.

I am not sure if the 1.25" adapter uses the same method, but I plan on ordering one next month. Also, you can request that the adapters do not have a safety-undercut which may add a week or so to the order process.

I can post a picture of the adapter this evening if needed.


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5792327 - 04/11/13 01:00 PM

Quote:

I can post a picture of the adapter this evening if needed.




On left, old APM Leica 2" adapter, on right Starlight Instruments' 2" adapter, view from eyepiece side:



Tammy

Edited by Tamiji Homma (04/11/13 01:02 PM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5792413 - 04/11/13 01:45 PM

Tammy,

Thanks much for this info!

Quote:

Here is Leica ASPH Zoom eyepiece with Starlight Instruments' 2" adapter.
I asked them to build custom adapter before. Now they are selling the adatper as standard product.




So now when we order a Leica ASPH Zoom with 2" adapter from APM, they will come with the Starlight Instruments 2" adapter? Is that knurled screw the only point of attachment between the adapter and the eyepiece? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. I think I'd rather have a knurled screw that I can turn by hand than tiny setscrews that require a little hexkey to turn.

Quote:

You can use T2 1.25" adapter to make it 1.25" eyepiece (need extra inward focus distance).




Quote:

You can use standard 2" filter. But not both




That's fine. In 2" mode I can screw a 2" filter directly onto the eyepiece. In 1.25" mode I'll insert the eyepiece in a 1.25" filter wheel. That's exactly what I want to do. Additional inward focus distance should not matter because I will be using a Barlow or OCA at the neck of the filter wheel.

Quote:

Baader #T2-14 (1.25" nosepiece) attached at bottom Starlight Instruments's adapter




Is it possible that this nosepiece is the same unit that is included with the Baader Hyperion Zoom to convert it to 1.25" mode? If so, I already have this piece. If not, I should have no problem getting one.

Well, judging by this new information, maybe I will be able to use a Leica Zoom in my Paracorr and also in my filter wheel without much fuss or fumbling in the dark. It would basically be a simple matter of attaching/removing the #T2-14 nosepiece. What do you think?


Mike


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Tamiji Homma
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792528 - 04/11/13 02:36 PM

Quote:

So now when we order a Leica ASPH Zoom with 2" adapter from APM, they will come with the Starlight Instruments 2" adapter? Is that knurled screw the only point of attachment between the adapter and the eyepiece? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing.




When I said "standard product", it is off-the-shelf product from Starlight Instruments, not from APM.

So you don't get Starlight Instruments' adapter from APM. You need to buy the adapter from Starlight Instruments.

The setscrew on Starlight Instruments' adapter is to prevent eyepiece to turn, the bayonet mechanism to set the eyepiece in the adapter and setscrew to prevent eyepiece from turning when zooming in/out.

I no longer have Hyperion Zoom so I can not confirm the nosepiece is the same as T2-14. Hyperion 24 1.25" nosepiece is different from T2-14.

In general, Leica ASPH eyepiece with adapter needs extra inward focus distance, if your scope is inward focus distance challenging, you may not come to focus to infinity.

There were several big Dobs (with/without Paracor) at star party that couldn't come to focus to infinity. Just to be sure you have good inward focus distance before you buy. I think that Leica with Starlight Instruments' adapter needed about 16mm more than XW 10 with zero-profile 2" adapter. New APM adapter may have shorter lightpath but I don't know for sure.

Tammy


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RodgerHouTex
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5792555 - 04/11/13 02:50 PM

Well I'm certainly glad this thread existed. I wouldn't want the APM adapter becasuse you are basically screwing set screws into the body of the eyepiece which has caused some problems. See the Vendors section. I would want the Starlight adapter which allows you to just twist the eyepiece into it like you would if it was going into a Leica spotting scope. (That is how my Zeiss+adapter works.) Now the bad news - the Starlight adapter is $190 and the eyepiece is $900 for a grand total of $1090. Although I could afford it, I just can't bring myself to spend that much money on a single eyepiece. The most I've ever spent was around $600 for the Zeiss Diascope eyepiece and the Zeiss adapter. And that was a reach. So I guess I'll have to make do with the eyepieces I have.

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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Tamiji Homma]
      #5792561 - 04/11/13 02:55 PM

Tammy,

Quote:

Quote:

So now when we order a Leica ASPH Zoom with 2" adapter from APM, they will come with the Starlight Instruments 2" adapter? Is that knurled screw the only point of attachment between the adapter and the eyepiece? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing.




When I said "standard product", it is off-the-shelf product from Starlight Instruments, not from APM.

So you don't get Starlight Instruments' adapter from APM. You need to buy the adapter from Starlight Instruments.




OK, I get you now. You were referring back to Starlight Instruments as the source of the adapter as a "standard product," and not that APM supplies them as "standard" with the Leica Zoom.

Mike


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johnnyha
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5793741 - 04/12/13 02:35 AM

It would be a shame for anyone to miss out on this excellent eyepiece because they had notions about the adapter causing problems. The Leica will now ship with nylon allen screws, I have the first iteration of this and they work great. The adapter that I had that caused the pinching problem (yes it was me!) was an older adapter that Tammy gave me, that used very sharp pointed metal allen screws. The current adapter before the new nylon switch-over used metal allen screws with a flat end that do not pinch the barrel. I don't think anyone should worry about the barrel pinching again, Markus has taken care of it.

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Smithfr2000
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5793769 - 04/12/13 03:20 AM

I received mine with the M48 adaptater...and nylon screws, few days ago.
I don't understand how adaptater could be a problem

If you hesitate between 2" et 1.25" : Why don't you take the 1.25" ? You could use it with your current stuff (filter wheel), and if necessary, you could use it in a 2" focuser with a mere 2"-1.25" reducer.

It sounds like you look for any reason to not pull the trigger. Like you did, i read thouroughly most of the threads about it on CN, and was confirmed some thoughts by MP from leica owners.

IMO, there are 2 issus to take into account before purchase for a newton : Infocus travel (i checked for me and i have enough travel),
If used with a paracorr : choosing the right set up to achieve the right barlow factor without touching the paracorr lens.
All is here : http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4235705/page...

In my case it will be : VIP Barlow with 2" extension tube to reach 2X or 2.5X.

Edited by Smithfr2000 (04/12/13 03:21 AM)


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t.r.
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Smithfr2000]
      #5793920 - 04/12/13 08:01 AM

I think the whole problem stemmed from simply overtightening the pointed grub screws, which then pinched into the zoom EXACTLY where the barlow mechanism is located, impeeding its operation. Problem solved...NO issue now.

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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5793969 - 04/12/13 08:45 AM

Johnny,

Quote:

It would be a shame for anyone to miss out on this excellent eyepiece because they had notions about the adapter causing problems. The Leica will now ship with nylon allen screws, I have the first iteration of this and they work great. The adapter that I had that caused the pinching problem (yes it was me!) was an older adapter that Tammy gave me, that used very sharp pointed metal allen screws. The current adapter before the new nylon switch-over used metal allen screws with a flat end that do not pinch the barrel. I don't think anyone should worry about the barrel pinching again, Markus has taken care of it.




I'm glad that Markus corrected the pinching problem, but that was never my concern about the adapters. I want to be able to switch between using the Leica in a Paracorr and in a filter wheel. That is my concern.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Smithfr2000]
      #5793986 - 04/12/13 09:08 AM

Quote:

I received mine with the M48 adaptater...and nylon screws, few days ago.
I don't understand how adaptater could be a problem




I've explained that the potential problem is I might not be able to use the Leica in a Paracorr and in a filter wheel. I've never said anything about any other problem with the adapters.

Quote:

If you hesitate between 2" et 1.25" : Why don't you take the 1.25" ? You could use it with your current stuff (filter wheel), and if necessary, you could use it in a 2" focuser with a mere 2"-1.25" reducer.




This would be fine for the filter wheel. But I also want to use the Leica in a Paracorr at an optimised setting. If the Leica comes installed with the 1.25" adapter, and then I insert it into a 1.25"-2" adapter, I might not be able to position the eyepiece in the Paracorr at the optimal setting for coma correction. It'd be a real shame to pay $950 for an eyepiece that can't be set correctly in my Paracorr.

Quote:

It sounds like you look for any reason to not pull the trigger. Like you did, i read thouroughly most of the threads about it on CN, and was confirmed some thoughts by MP from leica owners.




No, not at all. I've given the exact reason, not just any reason. It is important to me to be able to use the Lecia in a Paracorr at an optimal setting and also in a filter wheel. If I can't do both, I don't want the Leica.

Quote:

IMO, there are 2 issus to take into account before purchase for a newton : Infocus travel (i checked for me and i have enough travel), If used with a paracorr : choosing the right set up to achieve the right barlow factor without touching the paracorr lens.




I doubt if the Leica used natively or with Paracorr will have any problem with lack of in-focus in my 10" Dob. The problem I have with some eyepieces is not enough out-focus, so I have to put in an extension. In any case, my focuser has two exchangeable visual backs that I can try.

The Paracorr will always sit at one specific location along the optic train. The problem is whether or not the Leica can be positioned at the optimal setting within the Paracorr for coma correction. I have a Paracorr Type I. A Leica with the 1.25" special adapter and 1.25"-2" adapter might put the eyepiece too high above the Paracorr lenses for optimum coma correction.

If desired, I have a 2" Barlow that can be inserted into the focuser before the Paracorr + Leica. Or I can screw the lens cell from the Barlow onto the bottom of the Paracorr. I don't need to position a Barlow between the Paracorr and the Leica.

Mike


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Smithfr2000
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5794008 - 04/12/13 09:22 AM

So you would have to switch between 2" adaptater and 1.25". Don't see any other way. Not very handy.

Except if you switch from filter wheel to filter slide (like me), but you don't wish to.

Edited by Smithfr2000 (04/12/13 09:25 AM)


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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5794009 - 04/12/13 09:23 AM

Rodger,

Quote:

Now the bad news - the Starlight adapter is $190 and the eyepiece is $900 for a grand total of $1090. Although I could afford it, I just can't bring myself to spend that much money on a single eyepiece. The most I've ever spent was around $600 for the Zeiss Diascope eyepiece and the Zeiss adapter. And that was a reach. So I guess I'll have to make do with the eyepieces I have.




$1090 ... hmmm... Yes, I could sell enough eyepieces to cover that, but should I? I've never spent more than $400 for a single eyepiece.

But I do like the convenience of a good Zoom eyepiece. Ironically, though I have a lot of eyepieces, I do not like switching out eyepieces, especially when I'm at a dark site, where I have limited time each month to observe. So I would not mind seeing a number of these eyepieces leave if the one eyepiece replacing them can do everything I want it to do.

If I didn't have a wide variety of types of telescopes, and a wide variety of objects I like to observe, I probably wouldn't have nearly so many eyepieces. But ideally, I want it to be more about the objects, and not so much about the optics.

That's why in the field I often have a Zoom in the focuser rather than spend time switching among eyepieces, and use a filter wheel rather than spend time screwing filters on and off the eyepieces. And that's why if I pull the trigger on a Leica, it better be ready to go from filter wheel to Paracorr and back again with little fuss but with optimum performance.

Mike


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Sarkikos
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Re: To Leica or Not to Leica: That is the Question new [Re: Smithfr2000]
      #5794015 - 04/12/13 09:28 AM

Quote:

So you would have to switch between 2" adaptater and 1.25". Don't see any other way. Not very handy.

Except if you switch from filter wheel to filter slide (like me).




Well, if I had the Starlight Instruments 2" adapter on the Leica, I could screw on the Baader nosepiece to switch to 1.25" mode. That would not be so bad. It would be a lot easier and faster than fiddling with tiny setcrews in the dark.

But the remaining question for me is: Can the Leica + Starlight Instruments 2" adapter be positioned at the optimal setting for coma correction in my Paracorr Type I?

Mike


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