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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845081 - 05/07/13 08:23 AM

OK. I got one to solve properly in 284s, but one improperly solved in 360s.

I need to work on getting it to solve faster and more accurately.

I am using 300s exposures to test with. Would shorter exposures be better? That is probably the way it would work in the field.

My sigma is set to 1, shold I change that? What exactly does sigma do?

Is the a place for more info on this besides this thread?


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LoveChina61
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845150 - 05/07/13 09:17 AM

I just tried inserting the string "--sigma 100 --no-plots -N none -z 2 -H -L". Didn't work at all. When you get the chance, please let me know how to insert the extra parameters you suggested. I am always open to new settings that can enable the plate solving to work better and better.

I am still getting a higher "successful plate solve" percentage when just using the online version of nova.astrometry.net. However, when Astrotortilla is able to solve it always gives me a bit more accurate plate solve than the online version.


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5845325 - 05/07/13 11:14 AM

Quote:

i'll bet that both ImageSolver/AnnotateImage and astrometry are both wrong due to lens distortions. or there could be a bug in the flickr interface. i've never seen such a discrepancy between the two.




You may be right, but ImageSolve matched the scale expected from the camera/lens combination, but it was not a blind solver. I haven't a clue why astrometry got it's scale value. However, astrometry correctly identified the objects in the image.


So far, I'm not sure that SGP is worth the effort, as I don't have an observatory. I may keep the free version for its scripting capability and forget its plate solving. Likely, I will give astrotortilla another shot after it matures more (and people like you work the bugs out and get a good handle on what parameters to use and when).


Regards,

Charlie B


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pfile
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845675 - 05/07/13 01:56 PM

-H and -L take arguments, image scale in degrees (by default). i know from prior blind solves that my camera/OTA combo yields a FOV of about 30 arcminutes by 20 arcminutes (0.5 degrees by 0.33 degrees) so i use -H 0.6 -L 0.2 just to give it some wiggle room.

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Phil Sherman
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5845806 - 05/07/13 02:42 PM

I downloaded AT and also discovered that it wouldn't plate solve any of my existing images. The clue to getting AT to solve images is in manual where it states that you should be using a 5-10 second image at the camera's highest ISO. The critical piece of information is the 5-10 seconds - a very short exposure.

I took an unsolvable image and edited it to eliminate all but the 20 or so brightest stars in it. When I fed this into AT, it solved it in around 90 seconds, I considered this to be excellent time because AT was running in a WinXP virtual machine with restricted memory and a single CPU available to it. Observation of the computer during the analysis run indicated that the plate solve time was a function of disk I/O speeds. I expect that moving the astrometric data files to my SSD will significantly improve this.

I'm also changing my imaging procedures to include a short exposure of any field I image. This will be used to reposition the scope if I need to continue the imaging of that field the following night. AT will do this if it has an image it can resolve.

Phil


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pfile
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5846120 - 05/07/13 05:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i'll bet that both ImageSolver/AnnotateImage and astrometry are both wrong due to lens distortions. or there could be a bug in the flickr interface. i've never seen such a discrepancy between the two.




You may be right, but ImageSolve matched the scale expected from the camera/lens combination, but it was not a blind solver. I haven't a clue why astrometry got it's scale value. However, astrometry correctly identified the objects in the image.


So far, I'm not sure that SGP is worth the effort, as I don't have an observatory. I may keep the free version for its scripting capability and forget its plate solving. Likely, I will give astrotortilla another shot after it matures more (and people like you work the bugs out and get a good handle on what parameters to use and when).


Regards,

Charlie B




it could be that they have downsampled the image to solve it but then not upscaled the result that they paste into flickr. there's no way they don't know the correct image scale because as you say the object identification would be completely wrong.

for me, AT is super useful to sync the scope. even small amounts of polar alignment error can cause large pointing errors if there's no model in the mount computer. with AT i just point the scope near where i want to image, solve and sync, and then do another goto, and my target is centered perfectly. no reason to build a model if you can periodically re-sync the mount.

imho it's of the greatest benefit if you don't have an observatory, cause you'd have to build a new model every time you set up.


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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5846334 - 05/07/13 06:44 PM

OK. Once I got it to solve one of my images, I used the reported scale to adjust my arcminwidth settings accordingly. Now it solves most images very quickly.

What does the search radius do? If I know my mount is pointing close to my intended target, can I reduce this setting? Would it further speed it up?


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5847248 - 05/08/13 07:34 AM

Quote:

imho it's of the greatest benefit if you don't have an observatory, cause you'd have to build a new model every time you set up.





True, but building a 4-star model is not very difficult and I can sync to a close by star to get very good pointing, which I've been doing for years. I don't truly need plate solving, but would like to have it.

Charlie B


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pfile
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5847755 - 05/08/13 01:19 PM

i just had no end of problems with my G2 trying to model, plus having to build models on both sides of the meridian is tough for my location.

you can use AT to build up the model if you configure the ascom driver to do additional aligns on sync. that way you don't have to worry about centering stars or whatever, just sync/align where you happen to be pointing.

of course YMMV. for me, doing repeated syncs (not aligns) near each other caused the G2 to completely corrupt it's model.


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5848319 - 05/08/13 05:48 PM

Quote:

i just had no end of problems with my G2 trying to model, plus having to build models on both sides of the meridian is tough for my location.




I do not have problems building models, but do have problems at the meridian flip. The newer motors stick out further than the older ones and I have to stop and wait until it's safe to flip. One good thing about plate solving is that I can return to the exact position after the flip.

Charlie B


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Raginar
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5858636 - 05/13/13 09:31 PM

You can insert a delay via your scripting. I have very similar problems with my mi250. I'm finding that scripting around it is much easier than dealing with the meridian flip. If they'd add a delay it'd be a ton easier.

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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Raginar]
      #5865919 - 05/16/13 09:29 PM

I am wondering if there is a Yahoo user group, or do I ask a question here?
I am looking to try this, but use a PC which is not/never connected to the internet.
Does this pose issues, and assuming I can download on one computer (a Mac by the way), and then install on the PC, at a distance, how then do I grab the index files. Is there a selection of the more popular ones, or do I simply have to download each and every one I need, (4004 - 4019 I believe).
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5865982 - 05/16/13 10:08 PM

Your in the right place for your question...

I believe you can download the whole AT system and install it by copying it to the PC... However, it would be much easier to take the PC to where it can be connected to the internet to do the install... I don't know if you can use a Mac as the AT installer is a PC application and needs access to the internet to function. Maybe using a Parallels equipped Mac and installing AT in Windows on the Mac might work but I have no way of knowing...

I have transferred AT and CYGWIN and Indexes from a PC desktop to a PC Windows laptop without any trouble, I just don't know if it will work using a Mac for the transfer...

It might be worth your while to go to the SourceForge Astrotortilla web page, got to the support area, to the discussion (forum)and ask if its possible to install using a Mac or if the install package as a complete self contained so internet access is not required... You might find someone there who has done this...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5866404 - 05/17/13 03:46 AM

Thank you Mitch.
I have actually managed to make the installer function (I think), and have the AT interface operational.
Of course a solve is not going to work, it needs the indexes.
And the interface does not look like it talks to BYE either, another reason to want to try AT.
I'll keep digging.
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5866777 - 05/17/13 10:21 AM

Gary,
If you have the installer functional, on which machine is this? PC or Mac? If the installer is functional, it should have created C:\CYGWIN and all its sub-directories including \cygwin\usr\share\astrometry\data and this data directory should have all the indexes in it...

Please confirm which machine you are referring to,and that the data directory exists on that machine...

Sounds to me like you are close to having it working...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: fmhill]
      #5867520 - 05/17/13 04:06 PM

Better go check this Mitch. I downloaded onto the Mac, and then transferred to the PC. I have the "Interface" running on the PC. I didn't download any indexes though. I (sheer laziness here) wanted to download the indexes as a block, rather than as a single laborious exercise.
Back soon.
Gary


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Raginar
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: fmhill]
      #5867564 - 05/17/13 04:16 PM

I haven't tried this, but if you can compile the program, my guess is the index files won't matter where they're opened. They're not specific to a file system. Just extract them on windows and transfer it to a Mac.

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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5867650 - 05/17/13 04:40 PM

Quote:

Better go check this Mitch. I downloaded onto the Mac, and then transferred to the PC. I have the "Interface" running on the PC. I didn't download any indexes though. I (sheer laziness here) wanted to download the indexes as a block, rather than as a single laborious exercise.
Back soon.
Gary




Gary,
That is the point of having the AT installer manage the downloading of the indexes, it is painless and complete. Once you have the indexes downloaded, you can do a folder copy to a portable media and transfer it to the correct folder on the PC... Its about 3Gb of data and approximately 100 files or so, you do not want to do it in any method other than a bulk or folder move/copy, definitely not as a individual file move...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: fmhill]
      #5868279 - 05/17/13 10:10 PM

Hmmmm, all pointing to me having to roll the pier and PC (they are connected), down the driveway to where I can get internet, and do it like you say. The installer won't open on a Mac, just tried.
Before I do this. The index files, I read somewhere that if I image (and therefore want to solve) under about 1000mm I need files 4004 - 4019, is that correct? No sense in downloading any more than I need.
Thank you again.
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868324 - 05/17/13 10:33 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm, all pointing to me having to roll the pier and PC (they are connected), down the driveway to where I can get internet, and do it like you say. The installer won't open on a Mac, just tried.
Before I do this. The index files, I read somewhere that if I image (and therefore want to solve) under about 1000mm I need files 4004 - 4019, is that correct? No sense in downloading any more than I need.
Thank you again.
Gary




Gary,
Its been my experience that indexes 4219 to 4205 is all you will need for the FOV provided with 1000mm fl scope and a DSLR camera.

I would avoid Index 4004 as its huge, 48 files about 950Mb total and really slows processing down. However if you use a CCD camera with a smaller sensor (smaller FOV) than a DSLR, then yes, download 4004 but do not put 4004 in the data directory unless you find you really need it due to failure to solve small FOV images... What I do is create a sub folder to the data directory to park indexes not being used as the more of the large indexes in the data directory, the slower the time to resolve an image. High order indexes 4212 and above to 4219 are small and have little effect but a large index like 4004 will be scanned each time and can triple the time to solve...

If you use the log viewer to monitor solves, you will see in which indexes solves are made with your OTA/camera FOV and you can "store" indexes not being used to make the process more efficient...

Edited by fmhill (05/17/13 10:38 PM)


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