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James Cunningham
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AstroTortilla - how does it work?
      #5792902 - 04/11/13 05:18 PM

I downloaded Astrotortilla but for the life of me cannot understand how it works or how I am supposed to use it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Jim


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richard7Moderator
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5792954 - 04/11/13 05:47 PM

This should help a little.
Users guide. PDF.


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: richard7]
      #5793124 - 04/11/13 07:26 PM

Richard,
Thank you for posting that link however it is already several revisions out of date.

As of 10 April, 2013, Astrotortilla Version 0.5.1 with new Index files series 4200 is out and the Installer has been modified for downloading the indexes without having to select a second server from a list as described...

There will probably be another update to Astrotortilla in several weeks as the BackYardEOS developer is presently working with the Astrotortilla development team to establish the control linking for Astrotortilla to work with BYEOS for camera control/imaging for automatic correction repositioning of the mount/OTA aim.


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5793396 - 04/11/13 10:15 PM

For those wanting to try Astrotortilla who have a Windows 64 bit operating system, do NOT use the "Download" button on the Astrotortilla home page.

For the benefit of folks doing a first time install of Astrotortilla, if you have Windows 64 bit operating system, for the x64 version of AT, you will find it here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/astrotortilla/files/AstroTortilla-0.5/

If you use the download push button, you get the 32 bit version, you should use the above link which will give you a choice of either the x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) versions...


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Vostok
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5793792 - 04/12/13 04:21 AM

James,

Once you get everything installed, this is how it works:

1) launch AT and connect to a camera software and your mount driver

2) use something (like Stellarium) to slew to your target

3) in AT, check all three boxes on the lower right and click "Capture and Solve"

4) magic happens

5) your target is now centered in your frame.

I'll start working on updating the user manual to discuss the newer 4200-series index files soon.

Lauri / AstroTortilla team


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James Cunningham
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Vostok]
      #5793950 - 04/12/13 08:34 AM

Does it make any difference that in the ASCOM setup, that the latitude and longitude are wrong? Can you use AT with alt/az as well as GEMs? How do you know for sure that it is connected? Thanks
Jim


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James Cunningham
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5793996 - 04/12/13 09:16 AM

One other question, my camera is not listed. Its a Mallincam. Does the software support that camera? Thanks.
Jim


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5794095 - 04/12/13 10:18 AM

Quote:

One other question, my camera is not listed. Its a Mallincam. Does the software support that camera? Thanks.
Jim




AT works solely on an image made at the present point of aim of the telescope, AT has no knowledge of how the telescope is setup or what the AZ/El or LAT/LON are, it simply calculates where the OTA is presently aimed and what the correction values are to make the mount aim the telescope at the target...

As to what cameras are supported, its not cameras per say, but what camera control software is supported and at present, only tWO that I know of. Nebulosity, APT, (and soon BYEOS). Any camera that can be controlled by these imaging programs can be automatically controlled by AT to collect the images needed for automatic aim correction, however many different brand/type cameras can be used by either screen capture mode, or using the "file open" function of AT which works quite nicely... The only requirement is that the image file be in a compatible format with AT, the most common are FIT, TIF, and JPG.

Edited by fmhill (04/12/13 10:20 AM)


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5794108 - 04/12/13 10:25 AM

Quote:

Does it make any difference that in the ASCOM setup, that the latitude and longitude are wrong? Can you use AT with alt/az as well as GEMs? How do you know for sure that it is connected? Thanks
Jim




What the Latitude and Longitude are set to is not important.

As to the AZ/EL type mount, I believe as long as the mount is ASCOM controllable such as any Celestron NexStar mounts with GoTo capability, yes, AT should work with this mount.


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mclewis1
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5794145 - 04/12/13 10:41 AM

Quote:

One other question, my camera is not listed. Its a Mallincam. Does the software support that camera? Thanks.Jim



Jim,

3rd party software generally doesn't directly support a video Mallincam because the camera's output doesn't directly connect to a PC. You have a USB frame grabber in between. So in most software a video Mallincam is setup as a webcam.

The control side is different, there are a number of apps that can control a video Mallincam through it's unique serial control interface ... but the video still goes through the USB frame grabber.


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Aimo
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5797170 - 04/13/13 05:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One other question, my camera is not listed. Its a Mallincam. Does the software support that camera? Thanks.Jim



3rd party software generally doesn't directly support a video Mallincam because the camera's output doesn't directly connect to a PC. You have a USB frame grabber in between. So in most software a video Mallincam is setup as a webcam.
The control side is different, there are a number of apps that can control a video Mallincam through it's unique serial control interface ... but the video still goes through the USB frame grabber.




The vast differences on how to access each camera is one of the reasons why AstroTortilla doesn't really talk directly to cameras. The other reason being, if the camera is in use by your imaging software, AT can't access it, and if it's in use by AT, your imaging sw can't access the camera. To that end AT has been written to support full automation with a few known applications (MaxImDL, Nebulosity and APT currently supported). For other applications there is a file-open-dialog that asks for a new image file when one is needed, and a screenshot grabber that tries to solve a defined rectangle of an application window (continuously updating image stream, e.g. PHD guiding or QGVideo).

AstroTortilla is open-source, so if your imaging application of choice isn't supported, you can help make it supported.

-Antti


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5799213 - 04/14/13 07:40 PM

Quote:

As of 10 April, 2013, Astrotortilla Version 0.5.1 with new Index files series 4200 is out and the Installer has been modified for downloading the indexes without having to select a second server from a list as described...




Now you tell me. Last night I gave up trying to use AstroTortilla because it would not solve anything. Today, I used one of my images at let it solve and it took almost 20 minutes, which is useless for telescope work. I downloaded and installed this latest version and it solved the same image in 136 seconds. Now that is useful. I previously used Elbrus, which worked OK but I wanted something that was more automatic. I will have to give this new version a field trial, but it looks good so far.

I would like a better explanation of all parameters, especially the scale parameters and their units. I first thought that it was arcsec/pixel, but the unit "degwidth" did not make sense for that.

Regards,

Charlie B


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5799418 - 04/14/13 08:55 PM

Charlie,

One of the tricks to keep Astrotortilla from bogging down and taking forever, or when it will not solve an image, is to use the "Log Viewer" (Tools) and watch for "simplexy - number of objects found"... When the number of objects found is low, usually below 23, then AT has not found enough objects (stars) to solve an image.

On the other hand, if the simplexy - objects found number is too high, typically over 60, then AT will take too long to solve an image to be practical. If the simplexy number gets to be above 300 or higher, an image can take hours to solve...

Point is, Sigma is the single most important setting in AT to keep AT solving efficiently...

One of the tricks to keep AT solving images efficiently when using AT for goto's is to use a standardized set of exposure values, setting camera ISO to 3200. and use a exposure time value of 5 seconds (maybe 10 seconds with 11" SCT? ) should produce an image of reasonably bright stars. Note that for plate solving, high ISO noise in an image is acceptable, what you are looking for is a good contrast range and even that is not very critical...

The point is, once you have settings that produce images with reasonably bright lower magnitude stars, by always using those exposure values when using AT for solving for goto's and positioning, the sigma value in AT can be set to a value that produces an object count in the range of 23 to 60 on average, and you don't have to keep messing with it...

Edited to add: With my ES127 ED/APO I use exposures 2 to 5 seconds at ISO 6400 with a Canon 60Da, and set Sigma to either 60 or 100 typically. Depending on which computer I am using, I get resolves in 5 to 9 seconds typically. That's with a i7 3.4Ghz CPU and probably 1.5X times longer with my Laptop with i3 2.6 Ghz CPU...

Hope this helps...

Edited by fmhill (04/15/13 12:13 AM)


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5799808 - 04/15/13 02:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

As of 10 April, 2013, Astrotortilla Version 0.5.1 with new Index files series 4200 is out and the Installer has been modified for downloading the indexes without having to select a second server from a list as described...




Now you tell me. Last night I gave up trying to use AstroTortilla because it would not solve anything. Today, I used one of my images at let it solve and it took almost 20 minutes, which is useless for telescope work. I downloaded and installed this latest version and it solved the same image in 136 seconds. Now that is useful. I previously used Elbrus, which worked OK but I wanted something that was more automatic. I will have to give this new version a field trial, but it looks good so far.

I would like a better explanation of all parameters, especially the scale parameters and their units. I first thought that it was arcsec/pixel, but the unit "degwidth" did not make sense for that.

Regards,

Charlie B




Charlie,

About Astrotortilla parameters and settings, this is the best information I know of, and I'm not sure how up to date it is.

http://sourceforge.net/p/astrotortilla/home/Configuration/

A problem with a rapidly advancing high technology application is keeping all the documentation up to date...


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5799998 - 04/15/13 08:19 AM

Thanks! The link should help a lot. I did vary parameters, especially sigma, but did not get good results. I was imaging with an Orion Starshoot III through a SV115T20.

Regards,

Charlie B


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5828011 - 04/28/13 10:13 AM

I just got this working, except for one thing.

When I use the telescope simulator and a fake camera, the three checkboxes above "Capture and solve" are blank and never enabled. Is this just because I'm using simulated devices? The plate solving and other functions seem to work well. Thanks!


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: psu_13]
      #5829003 - 04/28/13 07:59 PM

I've given up on AstroTortilla for now and have downloaded a trial for Sequence Generator Pro, which uses Elbrus and astrometry.net. I have been sucessful with Elbrus before. Last Saturday, I tried AstroTortilla but could not get it to open Nebulosity. It kept waiting on the camera, but the camera was working fine. I'm sure that it was my mistake, but I will wait for a more mature version.

Regards,

Charlie B


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5829068 - 04/28/13 08:41 PM

Quote:

I've given up on AstroTortilla for now and have downloaded a trial for Sequence Generator Pro, which uses Elbrus and astrometry.net. I have been sucessful with Elbrus before. Last Saturday, I tried AstroTortilla but could not get it to open Nebulosity. It kept waiting on the camera, but the camera was working fine. I'm sure that it was my mistake, but I will wait for a more mature version.

Regards,

Charlie B




Charlie,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulties with Astrotortilla and Nebulosity...

While I have Nebulosity and like it for some things, using it for camera control and image capture is not what I use it for as I am presently using a Canon 60Da and BYEOS and now that the BYEOS Beta4 version and Astrotortilla are working smoothly together, plus having problems with my SBIG camera, I'm very impressed with BYEOS and Astrotortilla working together so far...

Regretfully, I have no answer to the Nebulosity with Astrotortilla issue...


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5830276 - 04/29/13 01:56 PM

I cant get any platesolving to work reliably.

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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: powerstroke01]
      #5830449 - 04/29/13 02:57 PM

Quote:

I cant get any platesolving to work reliably.




If you will supply details, hopefully someone can help you...

No details, no help...


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LoveChina61
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5833938 - 05/01/13 09:37 AM

I could use some help. I am using the older 200-series files as I was having very little success achieving plate solves with the newer 4000-series database files. Now the solving is pretty much hit or miss but at least I am able to solve some of them.

Here is a screenshot of my Astrotortilla settings. Every single solve has fallen within 25-31 arcmin range so I now just have the program search within those parameters. I take a 30 second or 60 second exposure with automatic dark subtraction, take a screenshot of the exposure, and then upload the screenshot with Capture and Solve.

Any further settings advice that you can give to me would be greatly appreciated!




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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5834018 - 05/01/13 10:26 AM

LoveChina61,
First thing to do is set "scale minimum" to 0 (zero) The setting you have, (25.???) is choking it which is most likely the reason it only solves a few images, not most if not all images...

2nd suggestion - Upgrade your software and index files to Version 5 and the indexes to the 4200 series. Get a new install from the Astrotortilla web page and run it omitting the CYGWIN (you already have this), and select Indexes from 4219 down to 10% of the FOV of the telescope/camera you are using...

As you are using Arcminwidth instead of degreewidth for scale setting, I'm not sure what Scale Refinement of 0.1 is doing for you, normally Scale Refinement is defaulted to 0 (zer0) and left there.

Edited by fmhill (05/01/13 10:27 AM)


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ldesign1
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5835599 - 05/02/13 02:31 AM

My reply is in blue.

Quote:

LoveChina61,
First thing to do is set "scale minimum" to 0 (zero) The setting you have, (25.???) is choking it which is most likely the reason it only solves a few images, not most if not all images...

If you know the image scale range of your telescope/camera combination, then it is better to set both a minimum and maximum scale. This will give AstroTortilla a specific range to search instead of a broad range. It will solve much faster with less searching. I've saved configurations for all of my different scope and camera combinations with reducers and barlows lens from 400mm to 5000mm focal length. With each configuration, I set a minimum and maximum in Arcminwidth and get a solve within 30 seconds at most.

2nd suggestion - Upgrade your software and index files to Version 5 and the indexes to the 4200 series. Get a new install from the Astrotortilla web page and run it omitting the CYGWIN (you already have this), and select Indexes from 4219 down to 10% of the FOV of the telescope/camera you are using...

I've found that I get better and quicker results with the 200 series indexes. I've done a side by side comparison with both the 200 and 4000 series and found that I get faster and more consistent results with the 200 series.

As you are using Arcminwidth instead of degreewidth for scale setting, I'm not sure what Scale Refinement of 0.1 is doing for you, normally Scale Refinement is defaulted to 0 (zer0) and left there.

The use of Arcminwidth instead of Degreewidth makes no difference in the calculation of scale setting. I prefere to leave the setting on "0" because I want AstroTortilla to use my image a full resolution without any additional scaling. Also, I prefer Arcminwidth over Degreewidth for calculating my image scale for long focal lentghs. At 2500mm focal length with my camera, I'd have to use decimal points instead of whole numbers. Remember, 1 degree is equal to 60 arcminutes.




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ldesign1
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5835607 - 05/02/13 02:41 AM

My reply is in blue.

Quote:

I could use some help. I am using the older 200-series files as I was having very little success achieving plate solves with the newer 4000-series database files. Now the solving is pretty much hit or miss but at least I am able to solve some of them.

I totally agree with the success of the 200 vs. 4000 series. Now if you are solving from just one setup, you need to know your image scale and add a little buffer for the minimum and maximum scale. All of your images should solve in roughly the same amount of time. If some do not solve, that you need to adjust the sigma because of the noise level. I noise isn't an issue, then maybe you don't have enough distinguishable stars for the solving to work. I would suggest not doing a scree capture.

Here is a screenshot of my Astrotortilla settings. Every single solve has fallen within 25-31 arcmin range so I now just have the program search within those parameters. I take a 30 second or 60 second exposure with automatic dark subtraction, take a screenshot of the exposure, and then upload the screenshot with Capture and Solve.

Question: Why are you loading screen captures to plate solve? AstroTortilla can solve your captured image directly. I'm not sure if the format matters but I know it handles FITS and JPG files for sure.




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LoveChina61
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: ldesign1]
      #5835781 - 05/02/13 08:23 AM

I am taking a screenshot so that I don't have to load the entire Astrotortilla program and its star databases onto my ancient observatory computer. I can quickly FTP a 180k JPEG screenshot back to my host computer, but sending the 3.75mg original FITS file takes a while.

How much buffer should I give myself when setting the Scale Minimum and Scale Maximum ranges? For example, my imaging setup's FOV (per Astrotortilla) is 20.62(X)27.73 arcmins. What do you recommend I put as the Min and Max?

Lastly, how do I turn off the Config setting which automatically determines the range search of the next plate solve I will do? It seems to store the range of the previous successful plate solve, and then automatically begins with this range for the next plate solve I try to do. I would like to turn this feature off so that I can just set a permanent range for it to search within (e.g. the FOV of my current imaging setup +/- some buffer).

Thanks so much for all of your help! Mike


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ldesign1
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5836891 - 05/02/13 06:16 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Quote:

How much buffer should I give myself when setting the Scale Minimum and Scale Maximum ranges? For example, my imaging setup's FOV (per Astrotortilla) is 20.62(X)27.73 arcmins. What do you recommend I put as the Min and Max?

It looks like you're imaging close to 2500mm. I get 18.82' x 28.27' arcmins with my 10" LX200GPS and DSLR combination. Try my setting below. I typically go 5-10 above the maximum and below the minimum. As long as your setup doesn't change, the FOV should always remain roughly the same. I don't know how your screen captures affect the final size if you are cropping the image or adding extra border information. The scale is 100% accurate only with your actual image file from the camera.

Lastly, how do I turn off the Config setting which automatically determines the range search of the next plate solve I will do? It seems to store the range of the previous successful plate solve, and then automatically begins with this range for the next plate solve I try to do. I would like to turn this feature off so that I can just set a permanent range for it to search within (e.g. the FOV of my current imaging setup +/- some buffer).

You must be talking about the Default setting. You are able to load, modify and save new settings from the file menu. The default configuration file [astrotortilla.cfg] is located in your local user folder under Windows 7. It may be somewhere else with another operating system.

C:\Users\YOUR USER\AppData\Local\astrotortilla.sf.net\AstroTortilla

You can either overwrite this file or create a new file which you will have to load each time you what to solve at setting other than the default. I've created six different setting for my various setups.






You will need to experiment with the SIGMA value to get the shortest amount of solve time. It all depends on the level of noise in your image.


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Phil Sherman
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: ldesign1]
      #5839070 - 05/03/13 09:12 PM

I've just started evaluating AstroTortilla (AT) for my own use and also discovered that it wouldn't solve any of my existing images. After some experimentation, I discovered that AT won't solve images with stars down to mag 19 or greater. It wouldn't even solve an image of M45!

I took one of my images and edited it to show only the brightest stars and it solved it in 90 seconds. That's great time for a virtual machine XP system with only 1g of memory.

My biggest problem with AT is that I need to run it in multiple environments. I want to do this with only one shared copy of the astrometric data files, which is supported. Unfortunately, the cygwin installation included with AT does not include any text editor or the terminal utility to run it in. A text editor is needed to alter the astrometric configuration files to move the plate solving data to a shared location. Fortunately, I have a Windows editor that will edit Linux text files.

I'm now altering my imaging procedures to include a 5-10 second exposure of any field I intend to image. This will allow me to use AT's "reposition the scope" feature to continue imaging on a second or third night.

Phil


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ldesign1
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Phil Sherman]
      #5839336 - 05/03/13 11:36 PM

Quote:

I've just started evaluating AstroTortilla (AT) for my own use and also discovered that it wouldn't solve any of my existing images. After some experimentation, I discovered that AT won't solve images with stars down to mag 19 or greater. It wouldn't even soylve an image of M45!




It solves both my uneditted JPG and my processed file of M45 in 38 seconds and less. You may need to fiddle with the settings a liitle more. Which index files are you using? My success comes from using the 200 series.


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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: ldesign1]
      #5841612 - 05/05/13 12:48 PM

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've been very interested in getting AT working, but have had no luck.

I have everything hooked up and downloaded, but when I click capture and solve, I get an error in the log that says something like "Error Traceroute last call".

I figure it's something easy, but I'm stuck.

Thanks in advance.


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5841755 - 05/05/13 02:11 PM

Adam,
That is not an error I have heard of or seen before.

First thing I have to ask, have you been able to get Astrotortilla to resolve any image? Is this a very first attempt?

Please explain/describe your set up starting with the computer and operating system you are using, the camera and OTA, and what series and range index files you have installed...

This is all information needed to understand what might be happening...

Edited by fmhill (05/05/13 02:11 PM)


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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5841780 - 05/05/13 02:31 PM

Quote:

Adam,
That is not an error I have heard of or seen before.

First thing I have to ask, have you been able to get Astrotortilla to resolve any image? Is this a very first attempt?

Please explain/describe your set up starting with the computer and operating system you are using, the camera and OTA, and what series and range index files you have installed...

This is all information needed to understand what might be happening...




First, I'm typing all of this from memory. I'll be by my computer later and will correct any verbiage mistakes. It quite likely I mis started a message.

I haven't been able to get it to solve anything. I have tried a few times in the past, but it always stops immediately after clicking capture and solve. The bottom of the page says something about the image not being solved "in 0.0s" And I get the Traceroute error.

Computer is a Gateway Core 2 Duo laptop running vista. I downloaded the 22~ arcmin files and down.

Camera is a Canon XS, OTA is an Edge HD 800. I have tried manually selecting the images, but when I click OK, nothing happens.

EDIT: I just installed it on a desktop to test it and it seems to be working fine. I may have to reinstall on my laptop.

Edited by Footbag (05/05/13 02:59 PM)


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5841844 - 05/05/13 03:10 PM

Adam,
It sounds like your setup on the laptop has a configuration error...

I ran into this when I switched to Version 0.4 on my HP DV6T laptop. For reasons I have never been able to figure out, the AT installer was not putting the index files in the astrometrey/data directory.

Whether it was a folder creation error or a malfunction of the installer I was never able to figure out. As I also have a desktop with AT installed and working, I simply copied the astrometry/data area complete with index files to a USB drive and manually installed it using cut and paste to the correct location and AT has worked fine on the laptop ever since...


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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5842192 - 05/05/13 06:27 PM

I uninstalled it and reinstalled it, but it crashed the computer while installing cygwin. So that wasn't setup correctly. Maybe I can manually install it?

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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5842440 - 05/05/13 09:00 PM

Quote:

I uninstalled it and reinstalled it, but it crashed the computer while installing cygwin. So that wasn't setup correctly. Maybe I can manually install it?




Yes, Make sure you have enough disk space on the Laptop and you can use the Windows file manager to cut and past from a USB drive or possibly you can link the two computers with an Ethernet cable if they both have Ethernet ports...

There is nothing special about the CYGWIN, it can be copied from the other machine as long as you put it in its own folder complete with sub directories on the Laptop C: drive... This is essential so AT can find it...

As long as CGYWIN is a carbon copy of what is on the Desktop, it should work...


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LoveChina61
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5842541 - 05/05/13 09:52 PM

I am now having better success doing plate solves. Thanks to everyone for your help!

I am still using screenshots to run the plate solves upon. I mis-spoke earlier on how I do that. My observatory computer displays the starry photo that I want to plate solve, and I use the Host computer in my home to take a screenshot of what is displaying on my observatory's computer. I then run this photo through Astrotortilla for plate solving on my Host computer. It works well as long as I am using a 30-second shot that has had a Dark frame subtracted. This is much more convenient for me than sending the original 3.75mg FITS file back home to my Host computer and then plate-solving that original FITS file. My observatory computer is an ancient dinosaur and I don't want to load the entire Astrotortilla program on there.

I have been playing around with Sigma values. Another fellow had mentioned that he sets the Sigma value so that he gets between 20-60 "Simplexy". Less than 20 Simplexy and he might not have enough stars to do a plate solve, and many more Simplexy than 60 and it can take a long time to plate-solve. So I have been using my mouse to click on the Sigma value in the Astrotortilla startup screen and change the value to get the correct number of Simplexy. I put a Sigma of 80 (for example: --sigma 80 --no-plots -N none) and then click Capture and Solve to load my screenshot into Astrotortilla. As it starts to solve, I look at the bottom line and within the first 5-7 seconds it will flash the number of Simplexy. My setup is a bit more flexible so if the Simplexy falls within the range of about 15-80, then I let it continue to plate solve. However, if it falls outside of this range then I quickly Abort (Aborting works well at this point but can freeze up Astrotortilla on my computer if Aborted at other times), set a new Sigma value, and then try to solve all over again. If I don't get enough Simplexy, then I lower the Sigma value (e.g. from 80 down to 40. For example: --sigma 40 --no-plots -N none), and if my previous Simplexy number was too high than I raise the Sigma value (e.g. from 80 to 100) and try again.

Thanks again to everyone for your help!

Mike


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5843672 - 05/06/13 02:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I uninstalled it and reinstalled it, but it crashed the computer while installing cygwin. So that wasn't setup correctly. Maybe I can manually install it?




Yes, Make sure you have enough disk space on the Laptop and you can use the Windows file manager to cut and past from a USB drive or possibly you can link the two computers with an Ethernet cable if they both have Ethernet ports...

There is nothing special about the CYGWIN, it can be copied from the other machine as long as you put it in its own folder complete with sub directories on the Laptop C: drive... This is essential so AT can find it...

As long as CGYWIN is a carbon copy of what is on the Desktop, it should work...




That worked. Now just working on getting it to solve faster.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5844216 - 05/06/13 06:59 PM

Quote:

I've given up on AstroTortilla for now and have downloaded a trial for Sequence Generator Pro, which uses Elbrus and astrometry.net. I have been sucessful with Elbrus before. Last Saturday, I tried AstroTortilla but could not get it to open Nebulosity. It kept waiting on the camera, but the camera was working fine. I'm sure that it was my mistake, but I will wait for a more mature version.

Regards,

Charlie B




astrometry.net and astrotortilla use the same engine - astrometry's solve-field.

elbrus is supposedly a royal pain in the butt to install and get working, so there's no free lunch...

why don't you post some images so someone can help you with the parameters? i have been using astrometry.net's solver for years now with great success. astrotortilla really brings it to the next level with solve & sync.


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5844312 - 05/06/13 07:46 PM

Quote:

astrometry.net and astrotortilla use the same engine - astrometry's solve-field.

elbrus is supposedly a royal pain in the butt to install and get working, so there's no free lunch...

why don't you post some images so someone can help you with the parameters? i have been using astrometry.net's solver for years now with great success. astrotortilla really brings it to the next level with solve & sync.




When astrotortilla worked, it solved fine with the parameters that I used on images that I had. I could not get it to open and use Nebulosity when actually trying to observe. I admit that it was likely my problem, but it seems to be finicky and overly sensitive to parameters.

My last excursion with astrometry.net was on Flickr, where I submitted some images to be solved. The returned solutions, at that time, were not correct. See here!

Elbrus is easily installed and reasonably easy to use, but does need a good scale and angle to work properly, and you need to know if the picture is inverted or not.

I've been plate solving with PixInsight mostly, but I wanted to automate the process, hence the trials of Sequence Generator Pro and Astrotortilla. I tried Astrotortilla first because it was free. I may return to it for this reason, but SGP has other benefits besides plate solving.

Regards,

Charlie B


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5844603 - 05/06/13 10:39 PM

i'll bet that both ImageSolver/AnnotateImage and astrometry are both wrong due to lens distortions. or there could be a bug in the flickr interface. i've never seen such a discrepancy between the two.

in fact i find ImageSolver to be very finicky and require a lot more tuning before it can find a solution. mainly if the # of stars detected is too many then StarAlignment just goes out to lunch trying to match stars.

i'm not using a camera control package which is supported by AT so i just use the open file dialog. i usually run with -z 2 and -H and -L, and that's it. solves every time though sometimes it takes a couple of minutes.

i actually want to switch to SGP but for now i'm stuck because i have the STT and so can't use PhD to guide while something else is connected to the camera via USB. one of these days i'm finally going to get tired of this and try to add the http support into phd2. just need to find the time.

the only thing that bothers me about SGP is that they require elbus, and only use astrometry as a backup. so far you can't promote astrometry to the main solver. added to that they wrote an interface for astrometry's web-based solver service... so if you want to run solve-field locally you have to install this hack which emulates nova.astrometry.net, which is really kind of a rube goldberg solution. it would be way more straightforward for them to just call solve-field and be done with it.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5844773 - 05/07/13 12:14 AM

Quote:

i usually run with -z 2 and -H and -L, and that's it. solves every time though sometimes it takes a couple of minutes.




I sure would like to be able to say that Astrotortilla solves everytime that I try to use it. Where do you place the settings you mention in your quote above?

You can see an example of the settings that I use at the very top of this thread's second page. I usually start with the setting of "--sigma 100 --no-plots -N none". Should I just place your suggested string of settings at the end of this sentence so that my final setting string is "--sigma 100 --no-plots -N none -z 2 -H -L" ? I don't mind waiting a few minutes for it to solve as long as it will eventually be able to successfully complete the plate solve.

Mike


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845081 - 05/07/13 08:23 AM

OK. I got one to solve properly in 284s, but one improperly solved in 360s.

I need to work on getting it to solve faster and more accurately.

I am using 300s exposures to test with. Would shorter exposures be better? That is probably the way it would work in the field.

My sigma is set to 1, shold I change that? What exactly does sigma do?

Is the a place for more info on this besides this thread?


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LoveChina61
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845150 - 05/07/13 09:17 AM

I just tried inserting the string "--sigma 100 --no-plots -N none -z 2 -H -L". Didn't work at all. When you get the chance, please let me know how to insert the extra parameters you suggested. I am always open to new settings that can enable the plate solving to work better and better.

I am still getting a higher "successful plate solve" percentage when just using the online version of nova.astrometry.net. However, when Astrotortilla is able to solve it always gives me a bit more accurate plate solve than the online version.


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5845325 - 05/07/13 11:14 AM

Quote:

i'll bet that both ImageSolver/AnnotateImage and astrometry are both wrong due to lens distortions. or there could be a bug in the flickr interface. i've never seen such a discrepancy between the two.




You may be right, but ImageSolve matched the scale expected from the camera/lens combination, but it was not a blind solver. I haven't a clue why astrometry got it's scale value. However, astrometry correctly identified the objects in the image.


So far, I'm not sure that SGP is worth the effort, as I don't have an observatory. I may keep the free version for its scripting capability and forget its plate solving. Likely, I will give astrotortilla another shot after it matures more (and people like you work the bugs out and get a good handle on what parameters to use and when).


Regards,

Charlie B


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5845675 - 05/07/13 01:56 PM

-H and -L take arguments, image scale in degrees (by default). i know from prior blind solves that my camera/OTA combo yields a FOV of about 30 arcminutes by 20 arcminutes (0.5 degrees by 0.33 degrees) so i use -H 0.6 -L 0.2 just to give it some wiggle room.

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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5845806 - 05/07/13 02:42 PM

I downloaded AT and also discovered that it wouldn't plate solve any of my existing images. The clue to getting AT to solve images is in manual where it states that you should be using a 5-10 second image at the camera's highest ISO. The critical piece of information is the 5-10 seconds - a very short exposure.

I took an unsolvable image and edited it to eliminate all but the 20 or so brightest stars in it. When I fed this into AT, it solved it in around 90 seconds, I considered this to be excellent time because AT was running in a WinXP virtual machine with restricted memory and a single CPU available to it. Observation of the computer during the analysis run indicated that the plate solve time was a function of disk I/O speeds. I expect that moving the astrometric data files to my SSD will significantly improve this.

I'm also changing my imaging procedures to include a short exposure of any field I image. This will be used to reposition the scope if I need to continue the imaging of that field the following night. AT will do this if it has an image it can resolve.

Phil


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5846120 - 05/07/13 05:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i'll bet that both ImageSolver/AnnotateImage and astrometry are both wrong due to lens distortions. or there could be a bug in the flickr interface. i've never seen such a discrepancy between the two.




You may be right, but ImageSolve matched the scale expected from the camera/lens combination, but it was not a blind solver. I haven't a clue why astrometry got it's scale value. However, astrometry correctly identified the objects in the image.


So far, I'm not sure that SGP is worth the effort, as I don't have an observatory. I may keep the free version for its scripting capability and forget its plate solving. Likely, I will give astrotortilla another shot after it matures more (and people like you work the bugs out and get a good handle on what parameters to use and when).


Regards,

Charlie B




it could be that they have downsampled the image to solve it but then not upscaled the result that they paste into flickr. there's no way they don't know the correct image scale because as you say the object identification would be completely wrong.

for me, AT is super useful to sync the scope. even small amounts of polar alignment error can cause large pointing errors if there's no model in the mount computer. with AT i just point the scope near where i want to image, solve and sync, and then do another goto, and my target is centered perfectly. no reason to build a model if you can periodically re-sync the mount.

imho it's of the greatest benefit if you don't have an observatory, cause you'd have to build a new model every time you set up.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5846334 - 05/07/13 06:44 PM

OK. Once I got it to solve one of my images, I used the reported scale to adjust my arcminwidth settings accordingly. Now it solves most images very quickly.

What does the search radius do? If I know my mount is pointing close to my intended target, can I reduce this setting? Would it further speed it up?


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5847248 - 05/08/13 07:34 AM

Quote:

imho it's of the greatest benefit if you don't have an observatory, cause you'd have to build a new model every time you set up.





True, but building a 4-star model is not very difficult and I can sync to a close by star to get very good pointing, which I've been doing for years. I don't truly need plate solving, but would like to have it.

Charlie B


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5847755 - 05/08/13 01:19 PM

i just had no end of problems with my G2 trying to model, plus having to build models on both sides of the meridian is tough for my location.

you can use AT to build up the model if you configure the ascom driver to do additional aligns on sync. that way you don't have to worry about centering stars or whatever, just sync/align where you happen to be pointing.

of course YMMV. for me, doing repeated syncs (not aligns) near each other caused the G2 to completely corrupt it's model.


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Charlie B
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5848319 - 05/08/13 05:48 PM

Quote:

i just had no end of problems with my G2 trying to model, plus having to build models on both sides of the meridian is tough for my location.




I do not have problems building models, but do have problems at the meridian flip. The newer motors stick out further than the older ones and I have to stop and wait until it's safe to flip. One good thing about plate solving is that I can return to the exact position after the flip.

Charlie B


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Charlie B]
      #5858636 - 05/13/13 09:31 PM

You can insert a delay via your scripting. I have very similar problems with my mi250. I'm finding that scripting around it is much easier than dealing with the meridian flip. If they'd add a delay it'd be a ton easier.

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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Raginar]
      #5865919 - 05/16/13 09:29 PM

I am wondering if there is a Yahoo user group, or do I ask a question here?
I am looking to try this, but use a PC which is not/never connected to the internet.
Does this pose issues, and assuming I can download on one computer (a Mac by the way), and then install on the PC, at a distance, how then do I grab the index files. Is there a selection of the more popular ones, or do I simply have to download each and every one I need, (4004 - 4019 I believe).
Gary


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5865982 - 05/16/13 10:08 PM

Your in the right place for your question...

I believe you can download the whole AT system and install it by copying it to the PC... However, it would be much easier to take the PC to where it can be connected to the internet to do the install... I don't know if you can use a Mac as the AT installer is a PC application and needs access to the internet to function. Maybe using a Parallels equipped Mac and installing AT in Windows on the Mac might work but I have no way of knowing...

I have transferred AT and CYGWIN and Indexes from a PC desktop to a PC Windows laptop without any trouble, I just don't know if it will work using a Mac for the transfer...

It might be worth your while to go to the SourceForge Astrotortilla web page, got to the support area, to the discussion (forum)and ask if its possible to install using a Mac or if the install package as a complete self contained so internet access is not required... You might find someone there who has done this...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5866404 - 05/17/13 03:46 AM

Thank you Mitch.
I have actually managed to make the installer function (I think), and have the AT interface operational.
Of course a solve is not going to work, it needs the indexes.
And the interface does not look like it talks to BYE either, another reason to want to try AT.
I'll keep digging.
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5866777 - 05/17/13 10:21 AM

Gary,
If you have the installer functional, on which machine is this? PC or Mac? If the installer is functional, it should have created C:\CYGWIN and all its sub-directories including \cygwin\usr\share\astrometry\data and this data directory should have all the indexes in it...

Please confirm which machine you are referring to,and that the data directory exists on that machine...

Sounds to me like you are close to having it working...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5867520 - 05/17/13 04:06 PM

Better go check this Mitch. I downloaded onto the Mac, and then transferred to the PC. I have the "Interface" running on the PC. I didn't download any indexes though. I (sheer laziness here) wanted to download the indexes as a block, rather than as a single laborious exercise.
Back soon.
Gary


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5867564 - 05/17/13 04:16 PM

I haven't tried this, but if you can compile the program, my guess is the index files won't matter where they're opened. They're not specific to a file system. Just extract them on windows and transfer it to a Mac.

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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5867650 - 05/17/13 04:40 PM

Quote:

Better go check this Mitch. I downloaded onto the Mac, and then transferred to the PC. I have the "Interface" running on the PC. I didn't download any indexes though. I (sheer laziness here) wanted to download the indexes as a block, rather than as a single laborious exercise.
Back soon.
Gary




Gary,
That is the point of having the AT installer manage the downloading of the indexes, it is painless and complete. Once you have the indexes downloaded, you can do a folder copy to a portable media and transfer it to the correct folder on the PC... Its about 3Gb of data and approximately 100 files or so, you do not want to do it in any method other than a bulk or folder move/copy, definitely not as a individual file move...


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5868279 - 05/17/13 10:10 PM

Hmmmm, all pointing to me having to roll the pier and PC (they are connected), down the driveway to where I can get internet, and do it like you say. The installer won't open on a Mac, just tried.
Before I do this. The index files, I read somewhere that if I image (and therefore want to solve) under about 1000mm I need files 4004 - 4019, is that correct? No sense in downloading any more than I need.
Thank you again.
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868324 - 05/17/13 10:33 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm, all pointing to me having to roll the pier and PC (they are connected), down the driveway to where I can get internet, and do it like you say. The installer won't open on a Mac, just tried.
Before I do this. The index files, I read somewhere that if I image (and therefore want to solve) under about 1000mm I need files 4004 - 4019, is that correct? No sense in downloading any more than I need.
Thank you again.
Gary




Gary,
Its been my experience that indexes 4219 to 4205 is all you will need for the FOV provided with 1000mm fl scope and a DSLR camera.

I would avoid Index 4004 as its huge, 48 files about 950Mb total and really slows processing down. However if you use a CCD camera with a smaller sensor (smaller FOV) than a DSLR, then yes, download 4004 but do not put 4004 in the data directory unless you find you really need it due to failure to solve small FOV images... What I do is create a sub folder to the data directory to park indexes not being used as the more of the large indexes in the data directory, the slower the time to resolve an image. High order indexes 4212 and above to 4219 are small and have little effect but a large index like 4004 will be scanned each time and can triple the time to solve...

If you use the log viewer to monitor solves, you will see in which indexes solves are made with your OTA/camera FOV and you can "store" indexes not being used to make the process more efficient...

Edited by fmhill (05/17/13 10:38 PM)


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Gary BEAL
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5868335 - 05/17/13 10:39 PM

Mitch,
you are a legend, thank you. I have rolled it down the drive and am about to connect it up, hopefully.
So, confirming, 4219 - 4205, correct? Yes, scopes below 1000mm, and (at this stage anyway) DSLR.
I'll get started, but come back and check. Very much appreciated.
Gary


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868351 - 05/17/13 10:45 PM

Quote:

Mitch,
you are a legend, thank you. I have rolled it down the drive and am about to connect it up, hopefully.
So, confirming, 4219 - 4205, correct? Yes, scopes below 1000mm, and (at this stage anyway) DSLR.
I'll get started, but come back and check. Very much appreciated.
Gary




Yes, 4219-4205 is all you need...

Let me know how it works out... I'll be monitoring for a few hours yet tonight...


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5868376 - 05/17/13 10:59 PM

It's happening, the first few whooshed through, but the rest are slow, another half hour at this stage. I'll keen you posted. Great job for a lazy Saturday afternoon. Raining too.
Gary


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868588 - 05/18/13 12:58 AM

OK, got it all loaded etc. It even did the CygWin bit, which threw me for a while.
Tried a couple of solves with "Preview" images I happened to have from a recent BYE capture. No luck with them, but maybe that is just a setting thing, something I haven't "adjusted".
Need to try a few more, and change a setting or three perhaps.
Gary


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868602 - 05/18/13 01:10 AM

Quote:

OK, got it all loaded etc. It even did the CygWin bit, which threw me for a while.
Tried a couple of solves with "Preview" images I happened to have from a recent BYE capture. No luck with them, but maybe that is just a setting thing, something I haven't "adjusted".
Need to try a few more, and change a setting or three perhaps.
Gary




My guess it is settings in AT... This is normal for a first start up...

Thing to do is to first start the Log Viewer first, set Sigma to 100, then try to solve a preview image. Watch the log file for a line "simplexy - Sources found" and this number should be in the range of 24 to 65, if it not, abort the capture, change sigma to adjust this sources found number... Its a trial and error adjustment...

I'll be here waiting to hear what happens...


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5868632 - 05/18/13 01:46 AM

YESSSSS. Success, thank you.
Ended up with a sigma of 130. Solved, not the fastest, but solved.
That excited I don't recall how long. Then ticked the "Synch scope" and "Slew to" boxes, thinking I was clever.
Solved again (guess a minute or two) then the mount slewed on it's own (testing indoors, but in sort of real-like situation).
Can't wait to try this for real. Oh, and I'll read the manual as well, something us males are not noted for.
Thanks again,
Gary


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Gary BEAL]
      #5868651 - 05/18/13 02:10 AM

Great... AT is pretty simple once you become familiar with it and learn a few of the shortcuts...

One other suggestion, Try setting "Scale Maximum" to 2 and scale minimum to .5 and it should speed up the processing a bit... Scale Minimum and Scale Maximum should bracket the FOV of the camera/OTA... A little larger is OK, smaller and AT may not solve all images...

Glad to hear its working, Think I'll go to bed now, 2:10 AM local time here now...

Clear Skies, hope the rain stops soon for you...
Mitch...

Edited by fmhill (05/18/13 02:12 AM)


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Raginar]
      #5874925 - 05/20/13 11:10 PM

Quote:

I haven't tried this, but if you can compile the program, my guess is the index files won't matter where they're opened. They're not specific to a file system. Just extract them on windows and transfer it to a Mac.




you don't even have to compile it - there's a "backend" configuration file for solve-field (astrometry.net, which AT is based on) in which you can point the solver at the directory where the index files live.

in fact, i run AT in a VMWare virtual machine on my mac. the index files are on the mac filesystem and VMWare is configured with a shared folder pointing to the directory where the indices are. the backend config then calls out that drive letter.

works great.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: pfile]
      #5884783 - 05/25/13 10:42 PM Attachment (22 downloads)

I tried this the latest 64bit version of this software (after an imaging run last night) and was very impressed with software!

I would love to know how to speed it up by optimal parameter setting. I image from a C9.25 SCT into a Canon 40D at prime focus, so my imaging scale is around 0.44 arc seconds per pixel. My mount is an Atlux + SS2K-PC using Tpoint and the Sky6 PE, it regular points within 30 - 180 arc seconds of target - on a best night!

The full data base is downloaded onto a SSD and I'm only running a Core2 2.2 GHz CPU and a PC with 8GB RAM.

Image of AT settings attached:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=140220&d=1...

on 15 second shot of M20

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=140221

PS

Given my pointing is pretty solid - should I use the -3 and -4 parameters to receive RA and DEC parameters from the mount to speed things up on a real imaging run?

Cheers all, Matt


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5884978 - 05/26/13 12:56 AM

Can I ask what the latter "Custom options" settings are and what they achieve? I would like to see if they can help me get faster results.

For example, beginning after "--sigma 70 --no-plots -N none" what do you have written there? It is hard to make out the individual keystroke characters. Can you please post it in a reply message to this board?

Mike


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5884980 - 05/26/13 01:02 AM

Hi - being a few hours into this I can inform you from http://sourceforge.net/p/astrotortilla/home/Configuration/

Recommended options to experiment with:
--sigma N Set the noise level to N
--no-plots Do not plot the annotated image
--N none Do not create a new FITS file with integrated WCS headers
-q N.N Minimum quad size fraction
-Q N.N Maximum quad size fraction
--odds-* See astrometry.net documentation
--parity neg|pos Try only negative/positive parity
--objs N Limit source list to N objects
--resort Sort stars by background calibrated flux
--no-fits2fits Don't sanitize FITS files
--no-background-subtraction Don't estimate background fluctuations
--guess-scale Try to estimate field size from FITS headers

The --sigma option can be used in conjuction with the exposure time to improve the detected stars SNR and limit the number of items interpreted as stars. Depending on your camera and telescope aperture the known good values are known to vary between 2-5 seconds of exposure and 5-200 units for --sigma

* * * *

I guess the -r is resort (in short form) - i.e. sort by brightest stars.

Sigma I expect is a noise reject to ensure you are searching on real stars not hot pixels.

No plots mean solutions aren't stored to your hard drive.

* * * * *

What has worked best for me is:

1. Have a shot that includes 30 - 100 stars, do this by maybe taking a 5 - 15 second shot and setting the Sigma parameter to around 70
2. Calculate your imaging scale and set your units accordingly and provide upper and lower bounds; for me that is arcsecperix as unit with a 0.2 - 0.8 range (mine is just under 0.44 arc sec / pixel, mind you I just found 0.43 - 0.44 is faster, as it excludes unwanted search files without having to remove them from their default directory)
3. I use the parameters other have suggested -H and -L and -r -c 0.02 - seem to work okay
4. I searched originally 180 degrees of sky - will try 30 degree, given my pointing that is still vast versus my current pointing (answer - Yes it at least halves the time).


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5884998 - 05/26/13 01:27 AM

I'm typing this on my Laptop and do not have the explanation of the terms available. You can find on the sourceforge Astrotortilla website under confguration...

On my system, after the "N None" is: -r -c 0.02


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5885138 - 05/26/13 05:53 AM

Thanks much for the information!

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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: LoveChina61]
      #5885429 - 05/26/13 11:28 AM


Funny one tonight - tried both x86 and x64 bit versions tonight at the scope. The 64 bit version connects to the Sky6 Telescope via MaxPoint, as this is the only 64 bit driver in the list that will work with 32 bit drivers. The 32 bit version connects direct to The SKy 6 controlled telescope driver.

With correct imaging I got plenty of plate solves - generally about 2 arc minutes off in DEC, however I had the check boxes Sync and re-point ticked and nothing! It said centering but I could detect no movement. I checked the SS2K-PC handcontroller and it still had the three original stars sync-ed - not the new one that had just been plate solved.

Is this most likely a bug in the sync and goto command?

Later I also opened a previous night's image of M20 and issued a solve and goto - it slew the scope considerably and got fair close but not perfect - about 10 arc minutes off I'd guess.

Anyone know what is likely happening or who to ask?

Many thanks,

Matthew


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5886050 - 05/26/13 06:59 PM


Folks - just seen on the Astro Tortilla Discussion boards someone else with the same issue since upgrading from version 0.51 to 0.52 https://sourceforge.net/p/astrotortilla/discussion/issues/thread/b5546e48/

May be an known issue that gets corrected shortly. Pondering whether to try version 0.51 when the clouds clear!


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5893684 - 05/31/13 06:07 AM Attachment (13 downloads)

So still more errors on the re-centering. I ensure the ASCOM driver was selected for the Sky6 and syncs were enabled, regardless of the Tpoint model, and that the Sky6 didn't ask for syncs to be confirmed.

Solved for M4 - which was a few arc seconds off in RA and an arc minute or two in DEC off, but the sync and re-slew failed. Checking the log it refused the sync because the reported RA DEC had a 44.23" pointing error! Any ideas folks?

Image attached!


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5893989 - 05/31/13 10:38 AM

ALl I can tell you is that I use Astrotortilla with BYEOS and Stellarium and it re-synch's and re-slews fine, no problems... I have no knowledge of TheSkyX or how it would work with Astrotortilla. All I can say is that possibly there is an issue with the ASCOM configuration or ASCOM driver or TheSkyX itself...

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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5894096 - 05/31/13 11:35 AM


I have posted a question to the Bisque boys on their forums, may get me somewhere but there are a lot of variables in the mix, so I'll eliminate a few.

Clouds willing I will slew to a target then disconnect the sky and connect directly from Astro Tortilla to the Vixen SkySensor2000-PC driver and see if that allows syncs. It could be that driver hasn't implemented syncs.

Then I will reconnect the Sky to the Vixen driver and issue a goto a reference star and try issuing a sync from that software to the SS2K. If that work's - isolates the problem as the driver, if it doesn't - it could be the Sky6. In which case I will try CDC or Stellarium (but not sure if they can issue sync's.

Fun, fun, fun!


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5897547 - 06/02/13 10:22 AM

Well direct connecting Astro Tortilla v0.51 32 bit directly to the latest Vixen SkySensor2000-PC driver worked! Plate solve was fast, re-sync worked and re-point did its job nicely!

So the ignoring sync seems to stem from the Sky6's behaviour; clouds rolled in before I could do more testing, but will post more results later!


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5903625 - 06/05/13 10:57 AM


Tom Bisque confirmed for me yesterday The Sky6 should accept syncs:

I tried with The Sky6 using the Telescope Simulator.



I slewed to M8 then in Astro Tortilla solved image for M20 from yesterday given its quite a close target (about 1.8 degrees separation). In Astro Tortilla I had Sync and Slew Options selected.



First with I tried it with the SKy6 having a Tpoint model enabled, then I removed the Tpoint and tried again. The failure messages show the following (even thought I had Protect the Tpoint unselected) and ran both The SKy6 and Astro Tortilla from the Administrator account.


2013-05-27 01:01:41,388 - astrotortilla.Main - ERROR - Sync failed: Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 804, in OnBtnGOButton
File "astrotortilla\engine.pyo", line 572, in gotoCurrentTarget
File "astrotortilla\telescope\ASCOMTelescope.pyo", line 222, in position
File "<COMObject TheSky.Telescope>", line 3, in SyncToCoordinates
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'ASCOM TheSky Driver', u'Cannot sync because TPOINT is in use.', None, 1000440, -2147220480), None)

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 813, in OnBtnGOButton
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 774, in showTracebackDialog
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'format_exc'
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 876, in OnScopePollTimer
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'RA'
2013-06-03 19:56:34,505 - astrotortilla.Main - ERROR - Sync failed: Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 802, in OnBtnGOButton
File "astrotortilla\engine.pyo", line 572, in gotoCurrentTarget
File "astrotortilla\telescope\ASCOMTelescope.pyo", line 222, in position
File "<COMObject TheSky.Telescope>", line 3, in SyncToCoordinates
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'TheSky', u'Permission denied', None, 1000070, -2146828218), None)

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 813, in OnBtnGOButton
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 774, in showTracebackDialog
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'format_exc'
2013-06-03 19:58:31,470 - astrotortilla.Main - ERROR - Sync failed: Traceback (most recent call last):
File "astrotortilla\gui\MainFrame.pyo", line 802, in OnBtnGOButton
File "astrotortilla\engine.pyo", line 572, in gotoCurrentTarget
File "astrotortilla\telescope\ASCOMTelescope.pyo", line 222, in position
File "<COMObject TheSky.Telescope>", line 3, in SyncToCoordinates
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, u'TheSky6.Document', u'Limits exceeded.\n\nError code = 218 (0xda).', u'C:\\PROGRAM FILES (X86)\\SOFTWARE BISQUE\\THESKY6\\Help\\TheSkyV6.hlp', 98419, -2147220286), None)


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5903724 - 06/05/13 11:40 AM

G_Day,
What version of ASCOM driver do you have installed?

I interpret from what you post that you do not have a mount connected when this happens?


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5905779 - 06/06/13 11:15 AM


Using ASCOM 6 SP1.

I have tried multiple combinations, including:

AT -> Direct to mount (Syncs work)
AT -> Sky6 -> Vixen driver
(syncs fail when Tpoint model exist, even if allow syncs is on at both telescope driver and server settings)
(syncs fail when Tpoint model removed - with limit errors)
AT -> Sky6 -> Telescope API -> Latest Vixen driver (sync fail)
AT -> Sky6 -> Simulator (syncs fail)

Tom Bisque has written an in-depth reply of your don't want to do syncs when there is an active Tpoint model - it pollutes it. However he says syncs do work thought you should do it. I have informed him I can't even get syncs to work on the simulator and seem to have tried all combinations of options I can consider.

http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/t/18673.aspx

Tom Bisque replied on Thu, Jun 6 2013 2:18 AM

You should not Sync the telescope when a TPoint model is present. Unless you know the procedure. There is a button on the telescope SETUP to specifically prevent the Sync from being allowed. If that is checked you cannot Sync. Again this is something you do not want to be doing and is why you are having such a problem with this. In an attempt to save you from making a huge mistake the Sync is being prohibited. Note the Allow Sync here. This is what prevents a remote app. from Syncing the telescope. When TPoint is present and working this is strongly recommended.



The reason it is not "allowed" is this makes no sense to allow the user to Sync when the model exists. That is like pulling the rug out from under it and completely negates the model. The only times a Sync can be done with a TPoint model present is when the Sync is done correctly! This Sync cannot be done during or after a model is created. This is why I assume ASCOM is prohibiting this it should! If it was not and Synced anyway it would make things worse. Note that you are using ASCOM here right? Back to they have their reasons for doing what they do and you can ask the person who wrote the ASCOM driver why they are prohibiting Syncs. If they have a way to turn this off and they do in fact allow a Sync when TPoint is present I would be very surprised. Unless they qualify this and either clear the existing TPoint model so you can start over or Sync back in to the model or start a "short mapping run".

Try using the native Software Bisque Telescope Simulator instead of ASCOM. This is what you should see. This is exactly what I am trying to get at. You should not be Syncing during a model or even after a model is created.

Now turn off TPoint and you can Sync at will (if you are using remote third party control you have to enable remote syns too). I simply fail to understand what you are trying to accomplish? If the telescope is turned on and initialized Sync the telescope once and only once then start the TPoint run. No Syncing after that is required or allowed. There is no reason I can see to be trying to Sync during the run.

Syncing the telescope when you have TPoint model present is not something you want to be doing. UNLESS you performing the Sync correctly. As per the dialog above. I would be surprised if any third party control program is programmatic-ally able to deal with the above scenarios.

You might to find out if the third party application has been written to address the above following conditions. If they are not aware of these or don't know the consequences I would be shocked. And maybe they can more clearly explain why their program is not allow this to happen. I can see why it would not frankly.


* * * *

I think there is a setting or a limit or a switch somewhere in the Sky6 that even when syncs are allowed - doesn't like the format of the sync data it is seeing.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: g__day]
      #5980992 - 07/20/13 08:27 AM

Link to the pdf manual seems broken. Anyone have a good link?
Thanks


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: James Cunningham]
      #5982147 - 07/20/13 10:39 PM

Quote:

Link to the pdf manual seems broken. Anyone have a good link?
Thanks





http://sourceforge.net/projects/astrotortilla/files/docs/


That link worked for me.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: ldesign1]
      #5992626 - 07/27/13 09:13 AM

So I had one day where most of my images solved. The last two nights, though, none of my images are solving. I didn't change anything the first night, but last night I was using an H-Alpha filter.

I was able to get anywhere between 30 and 80 sources, but after a few minutes the images wouldn't solve. I did notice that I don't have the index files above 4210. I thought I downloaded them, but I must not have. Of course it was solving just a few days ago with the same settings.

Is it possible, I could need the new index files even though it was working previously?

Any issues with using an H-Alpha filter?


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5992851 - 07/27/13 11:42 AM

Quote:

So I had one day where most of my images solved. The last two nights, though, none of my images are solving. I didn't change anything the first night, but last night I was using an H-Alpha filter.

I was able to get anywhere between 30 and 80 sources, but after a few minutes the images wouldn't solve. I did notice that I don't have the index files above 4210. I thought I downloaded them, but I must not have. Of course it was solving just a few days ago with the same settings.

Is it possible, I could need the new index files even though it was working previously?

Any issues with using an H-Alpha filter?




As you don't say what the setup is for imaging when the error occurred, and you list an Edge HD 8" in your signature, I will say you definitely want to add the indexes below 4210, indexes 4209 to and including 4205... You may also need 4204 however if you are using a focal resucer, 4205 should be low enough and 4204 is huge, better not to load it if you don't need it. I use a EdgeHD 11" without a focal reducer and most resolves are made using 4204. It all depends on your FOV.

Be sure AT scale parameters are to your FOV otherwise AT will bog down and take hours to do a solve...


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5992873 - 07/27/13 12:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So I had one day where most of my images solved. The last two nights, though, none of my images are solving. I didn't change anything the first night, but last night I was using an H-Alpha filter.

I was able to get anywhere between 30 and 80 sources, but after a few minutes the images wouldn't solve. I did notice that I don't have the index files above 4210. I thought I downloaded them, but I must not have. Of course it was solving just a few days ago with the same settings.

Is it possible, I could need the new index files even though it was working previously?

Any issues with using an H-Alpha filter?




As you don't say what the setup is for imaging when the error occurred, and you list an Edge HD 8" in your signature, I will say you definitely want to add the indexes below 4210, indexes 4209 to and including 4205... You may also need 4204 however if you are using a focal resucer, 4205 should be low enough and 4204 is huge, better not to load it if you don't need it. I use a EdgeHD 11" without a focal reducer and most resolves are made using 4204. It all depends on your FOV.

Be sure AT scale parameters are to your FOV otherwise AT will bog down and take hours to do a solve...




Yes. This is with the Edge HD 800. I want to say I have the 4205, but maybe not the 4204. The thing is it was solving well just a few days ago with no changes. Seems like it will take a bit more trial and error.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5992888 - 07/27/13 12:11 PM

Make a screen capture of the AT settings page and post it or e-mail it to me, also a log file if you have one of a failed session and I might be able to help you...

When having a problem, always make a log file, it will show what is happening, without it one is only guessing...

Edited by fmhill (07/27/13 12:15 PM)


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5992929 - 07/27/13 12:30 PM

Quote:

Make a screen capture of the AT settings page and post it or e-mail it to me, also a log file if you have one of a failed session and I might be able to help you...

When having a problem, always make a log file, it will show what is happening, without it one is only guessing...




I'll have to wait for another clear night for the log file. But I'll also see if I cannot get it working at that time. Maybe the H-alpha filter is messing it up?

What should my scale max and minimum be or what do they represent?

I did go nuts changing the settings last night. Until then, I was just using exposure and sigma until I got the right amount of sources, and it would solve in a 20 or so seconds. Last night I changed the scales, and set search radius back to 180. 45 seemed to be working earlier. I'm not going to send you the settings until I get some testing done. I'm not even sure where I left the settings last night.


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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5993257 - 07/27/13 04:24 PM

I doubt the filter has anything to do with it as you are getting what sounds like adequate sources... If the filter were a problem, you would not be detecting sources...

The scale values should represent your FOV, otherwise you are limiting or forcing AT to search large areas outside of your image... This will cause AT to bog down and stall... As we use scopes and cameras that make small FOV images, setting radius to 180 just wastes processing time, leave it set to 45, this is not your problem...

Setting scale min and max is most likely what the problem is, I would set Max Scale to 1.3 and Min scale to 0.3 (I'm guessing as I don't know what your FOV is, probably in the middle of the FOV I get whether I'm using the ES127 or the EdgeHD 11" and my 60Da camera...

You do not have to be precise, the scale settings should encompass the FOV with as little excess outside area coverage as searching large areas outside the FOV will slow AT down significantly.

If your FOV is 1.23 degrees by 0.37 degrees, then setting Max scale to 1.3 and Min to 0.3 is accurate enough...


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Footbag
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5993266 - 07/27/13 04:31 PM

Quote:

I doubt the filter has anything to do with it as you are getting what sounds like adequate sources... If the filter were a problem, you would not be detecting sources...

The scale values should represent your FOV, otherwise you are limiting or forcing AT to search large areas outside of your image... This will cause AT to bog down and stall... As we use scopes and cameras that make small FOV images, setting radius to 180 just wastes processing time, leave it set to 45, this is not your problem...

Setting scale min and max is most likely what the problem is, I would set Max Scale to 1.3 and Min scale to 0.3 (I'm guessing as I don't know what your FOV is, probably in the middle of the FOV I get whether I'm using the ES127 or the EdgeHD 11" and my 60Da camera...

You do not have to be precise, the scale settings should encompass the FOV with as little excess outside area coverage as searching large areas outside the FOV will slow AT down significantly.

If your FOV is 1.23 degrees by 0.37 degrees, then setting Max scale to 1.3 and Min to 0.3 is accurate enough...




Hmm. My Max was set to 46 and Min set to 24. Does it matter that my units were arcmins? Or is my setting just way off?


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fmhill
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5993287 - 07/27/13 04:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I doubt the filter has anything to do with it as you are getting what sounds like adequate sources... If the filter were a problem, you would not be detecting sources...

The scale values should represent your FOV, otherwise you are limiting or forcing AT to search large areas outside of your image... This will cause AT to bog down and stall... As we use scopes and cameras that make small FOV images, setting radius to 180 just wastes processing time, leave it set to 45, this is not your problem...

Setting scale min and max is most likely what the problem is, I would set Max Scale to 1.3 and Min scale to 0.3 (I'm guessing as I don't know what your FOV is, probably in the middle of the FOV I get whether I'm using the ES127 or the EdgeHD 11" and my 60Da camera...

You do not have to be precise, the scale settings should encompass the FOV with as little excess outside area coverage as searching large areas outside the FOV will slow AT down significantly.

If your FOV is 1.23 degrees by 0.37 degrees, then setting Max scale to 1.3 and Min to 0.3 is accurate enough...




Hmm. My Max was set to 46 and Min set to 24. Does it matter that my units were arcmins? Or is my setting just way off?




As you have not provided a screen shot of the AT settings nor have you mentioned that the Scale Units are anything but the default of "DegreeWidth" I woulf have to say you are way off...

This attempt to help you ends here until you provide the screenshot of AT settings and a log file as requested otherwise we are spinning our wheels...


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RedLionNJ
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #6000371 - 07/31/13 06:06 PM

Okay, since you folks (esp Mitch) are all being so helpful, can anyone help ME get AT working?

I have indices 4206-4212 and a FOV of just over 2 degrees horizontally. My imaging system is an 80mm f6 APO and a Canon 550D. A typical attempt logs a value of between 20 and 60 for the Simplexy, yet I never get any solutions.

My AT settings:
Scale minimum: 1.5
Scale maximum: 2.5
Scale units: degw
Scale refinement: 0
Search radius: 180
Custom options: --sigma 70 --no-plots -N none

Routine will run for about 3 minutes then declare "No solution in XXXs"

log file (most dups and boring bits) eliminated:

2013-07-31 17:59:05,072 - astrotortilla - INFO - Connecting to camera...
2013-07-31 17:59:05,098 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 10.00 seconds
2013-07-31 17:59:07,796 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading image from camera
2013-07-31 17:59:07,798 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...
2013-07-31 17:59:08,401 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading input file 1 of 1: "/cygdrive/d/BackyardEOS/LIBRARY/PREVIEW/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.JPG"...

2013-07-31 17:59:08,803 - astrotortilla - INFO - jpegtopnm: WRITING PPM FILE

2013-07-31 17:59:10,305 - astrotortilla - INFO - Read file stdin: 5184 x 3456 pixels x 1 color(s); maxval 255

2013-07-31 17:59:10,408 - astrotortilla - INFO - Using 8-bit output

2013-07-31 17:59:15,634 - astrotortilla - INFO - Extracting sources...

2013-07-31 17:59:20,977 - astrotortilla - INFO - simplexy: found 57 sources.

2013-07-31 17:59:22,381 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...

2013-07-31 17:59:22,993 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading file "/cygdrive/c/users/grant/appdata/local/temp/solverpxemib/3/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.axy"...

2013-07-31 17:59:23,095 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4213.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,198 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4212.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,503 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4211.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,608 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4210.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,713 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4209.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,819 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4208.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,923 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4207-11.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:25,068 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4207-00.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:25,173 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-11.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:26,322 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-00.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:26,950 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4213.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,055 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4212.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,858 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4211.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,963 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4210.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:28,066 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4209.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:28,171 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4208.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 18:01:43,911 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-00.fits, field objects 51-60).

2013-07-31 18:01:44,542 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,065 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,316 - astrotortilla - INFO - Did not solve (or no WCS file was written).

2013-07-31 18:01:47,322 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field: /cygdrive/d/BackyardEOS/LIBRARY/PREVIEW/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.JPG

2013-07-31 18:01:47,328 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,335 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,339 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:50,200 - astrotortilla - INFO - No solution in 162.4s

Cheers!

Grant


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fmhill
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: RedLionNJ]
      #6000392 - 07/31/13 06:23 PM

Unfortunately, I am headed out the door for the evening, back about 10:00 - 10:30 PM

A quick suggestion, what ISO was the camera using? I seen cases where first try with integrated operation where the ISO is being set too low by the software... also try setting scale to min = 1, Max = 3

Second suggestion, add the indexes so you have 4219-4205 indexes inclusive, the image may be wider than what the 4212 and lower will support... This is another common first time issue...

More later...

Mitch...


Quote:

Okay, since you folks (esp Mitch) are all being so helpful, can anyone help ME get AT working?

I have indices 4206-4212 and a FOV of just over 2 degrees horizontally. My imaging system is an 80mm f6 APO and a Canon 550D. A typical attempt logs a value of between 20 and 60 for the Simplexy, yet I never get any solutions.

My AT settings:
Scale minimum: 1.5
Scale maximum: 2.5
Scale units: degw
Scale refinement: 0
Search radius: 180
Custom options: --sigma 70 --no-plots -N none

Routine will run for about 3 minutes then declare "No solution in XXXs"

log file (most dups and boring bits) eliminated:

2013-07-31 17:59:05,072 - astrotortilla - INFO - Connecting to camera...
2013-07-31 17:59:05,098 - astrotortilla - INFO - Exposing: 10.00 seconds
2013-07-31 17:59:07,796 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading image from camera
2013-07-31 17:59:07,798 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...
2013-07-31 17:59:08,401 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading input file 1 of 1: "/cygdrive/d/BackyardEOS/LIBRARY/PREVIEW/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.JPG"...

2013-07-31 17:59:08,803 - astrotortilla - INFO - jpegtopnm: WRITING PPM FILE

2013-07-31 17:59:10,305 - astrotortilla - INFO - Read file stdin: 5184 x 3456 pixels x 1 color(s); maxval 255

2013-07-31 17:59:10,408 - astrotortilla - INFO - Using 8-bit output

2013-07-31 17:59:15,634 - astrotortilla - INFO - Extracting sources...

2013-07-31 17:59:20,977 - astrotortilla - INFO - simplexy: found 57 sources.

2013-07-31 17:59:22,381 - astrotortilla - INFO - Solving...

2013-07-31 17:59:22,993 - astrotortilla - INFO - Reading file "/cygdrive/c/users/grant/appdata/local/temp/solverpxemib/3/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.axy"...

2013-07-31 17:59:23,095 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4213.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,198 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4212.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,503 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4211.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,608 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4210.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,713 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4209.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,819 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4208.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:23,923 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4207-11.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:25,068 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4207-00.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:25,173 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-11.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:26,322 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-00.fits, field objects 1-10).

2013-07-31 17:59:26,950 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4213.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,055 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4212.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,858 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4211.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:27,963 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4210.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:28,066 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4209.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 17:59:28,171 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4208.fits, field objects 11-20).

2013-07-31 18:01:43,911 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve (index index-4206-00.fits, field objects 51-60).

2013-07-31 18:01:44,542 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,065 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,316 - astrotortilla - INFO - Did not solve (or no WCS file was written).

2013-07-31 18:01:47,322 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field: /cygdrive/d/BackyardEOS/LIBRARY/PREVIEW/PREVIEW_20130730-23h18m48s496ms.JPG

2013-07-31 18:01:47,328 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,335 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:47,339 - astrotortilla - INFO - Field 1 did not solve.

2013-07-31 18:01:50,200 - astrotortilla - INFO - No solution in 162.4s

Cheers!

Grant




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RedLionNJ
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/29/09

Loc: Red Lion, NJ, USA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #6001269 - 08/01/13 10:34 AM

Mitch - you are GOOD!

I set the scale to 1.0 to 3.0 and it solved within 15 seconds.

Turns out my horizonal FOV is about 2.7 degrees.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Grant


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Footbag
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Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #6017454 - 08/10/13 11:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I doubt the filter has anything to do with it as you are getting what sounds like adequate sources... If the filter were a problem, you would not be detecting sources...

The scale values should represent your FOV, otherwise you are limiting or forcing AT to search large areas outside of your image... This will cause AT to bog down and stall... As we use scopes and cameras that make small FOV images, setting radius to 180 just wastes processing time, leave it set to 45, this is not your problem...

Setting scale min and max is most likely what the problem is, I would set Max Scale to 1.3 and Min scale to 0.3 (I'm guessing as I don't know what your FOV is, probably in the middle of the FOV I get whether I'm using the ES127 or the EdgeHD 11" and my 60Da camera...

You do not have to be precise, the scale settings should encompass the FOV with as little excess outside area coverage as searching large areas outside the FOV will slow AT down significantly.

If your FOV is 1.23 degrees by 0.37 degrees, then setting Max scale to 1.3 and Min to 0.3 is accurate enough...




Hmm. My Max was set to 46 and Min set to 24. Does it matter that my units were arcmins? Or is my setting just way off?




As you have not provided a screen shot of the AT settings nor have you mentioned that the Scale Units are anything but the default of "DegreeWidth" I woulf have to say you are way off...

This attempt to help you ends here until you provide the screenshot of AT settings and a log file as requested otherwise we are spinning our wheels...




First, I appreciate all of your help and don't want to spin your wheels at all. I was only hoping to get a better understanding of the settings so I didn't have to keep bothering you.

I went out and used the settings you suggested and it solved in 13 seconds. The program is awesome! I would've posted the screenshot and log, but it's working perfectly.

My only issue is that I have yet to have it solve with the H-Alpha filter on there. For that I only change exposure length and sigma, but no dice. I'm happy if I don't figure it out as I'm not using the H-Alpha filter so much, but it's still confusing.


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fmhill
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Footbag]
      #6017561 - 08/10/13 12:48 PM

Quote:


First, I appreciate all of your help and don't want to spin your wheels at all. I was only hoping to get a better understanding of the settings so I didn't have to keep bothering you.

I went out and used the settings you suggested and it solved in 13 seconds. The program is awesome! I would've posted the screenshot and log, but it's working perfectly.

My only issue is that I have yet to have it solve with the H-Alpha filter on there. For that I only change exposure length and sigma, but no dice. I'm happy if I don't figure it out as I'm not using the H-Alpha filter so much, but it's still confusing.




Adam,
I don't mind spinning my wheels if I have adequate information to work with and two key elements of that with Astrotortilla, is having a log file while AT is attempting to solve and doesn't. The other is having a screen shot of the AT parameter settings at that time.

I am puzzled as I've never heard anyone comment about not being able to resolve images made while using a HA filter before. I can only assume it is exposure time related as using filters affects exposure time... I do not believe AT has any care about color shifts...

So, for the time being, I will save your message and wait and see if someone else reports a similar issue...


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Raginar
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: fmhill]
      #6017670 - 08/10/13 02:06 PM

Nope. You're probably not taking long enough exposures. Either bin or make sure you're greater than 30 seconds.

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budman1961
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: Raginar]
      #6017976 - 08/10/13 05:06 PM

Try my settings:
My AT settings:
Downscaling 1
Scale minimum: 1
Scale maximum: 2.6
Scale units: degw
Scale refinement: 0
Search radius: 90
Custom options: --sigma 40 --no-plots -N none

Give it a shot and report back!
Andy


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orlyandico
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: budman1961]
      #6041832 - 08/23/13 12:48 PM

Ive been using astrometry on a beaglebone black. It can solve a 4x4 binned image from my qhy8 in 15 seconds, not a bad deal considering that the BBB processor is a 1 GHz ARM Cortex A8.

But since my BBB is headless and I don't have it hooked up to my mount and camera, i'm giving AT a shot. Now if only the indexes downloaded faster... I already have the indexes for my BBB but there's no option in the installer to skip the indexes but only download cygwin...


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fmhill
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Loc: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6042006 - 08/23/13 02:48 PM

if you have a way, CYGWIN and the indexes can be copied from another machine as long as you keep the folder and sub-directory structure intact.

I have done this a number of times. Once you have Astrotortilla and CYGWIN installed and operating on a computer, all you need is to install Astrotortilla itself and then copy the rest rather than waste time an bandwidth downloading it...


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orlyandico
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Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6043151 - 08/24/13 08:30 AM

Ok I am unable to solve anything.

simplexy returns a huge number of sources. When I raise sigma, the number of sources first goes down, then goes up again.

I understand that there should only be 20-80 objects. I am currently using my lowly Meade DSI guide camera (images are small, meaning solving should be faster) but even with this (noisy) camera I get hundreds of sources..


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fmhill
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
Re: AstroTortilla - how does it work? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #6043284 - 08/24/13 10:16 AM

Can you include a screen capture snapshot of the Astrotortilla window showing the settings in a post here?

Also, There is a parameter "Downscaling", try increasing this in steps of 2. this will help reduce the number of objects.

When the number of objects is higher than 100, AstroTortilla becomes swamped with data and will take hours to reach a solution so you must get the number of objects found by simplexy to a manageable level...

Edited by fmhill (08/24/13 10:19 AM)


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Puck Ja
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Solved but not sync new [Re: fmhill]
      #6117368 - 10/04/13 02:21 PM

I used AT in one night with Atlas mount controlled by CdC and EQmod. After PA, I slewed the mount a bright star close to my imaging target using CdC. Certain, the target was not in FoV. I take 5-sec shot and use AT's Capture and Solve with the image file. It solved and sync'ed. I can see one star in the EQmod N-pt model list. And I slew the the target right on.

Later, I slew to another target and it was out of FoV. I just repeat the previous process: get a shot and tried to use AT to solve and sync. However, this time it was solved but never seemed to sync. The message at the bottom reported that it was solved in 12 sec, but the button under "Sync" still shows "Abort..." . And there was no additional alignment star added into EQmod list. AT seemed to be hanged and I have to killed with Task Manager.

So did I do something wrong? Shouldn't I input more star for GOTO alignment with AT?

Thanks for the help!


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dobsoscope
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Re: Solved but not sync new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #6274805 - 12/27/13 03:25 AM

Can you keep the indices files permanently installed onto a USB stick rather than on the main pc hard drive?

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