Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
saadabbasi
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/23/09

Loc: 29N
Re: An utterly disappointing experience *DELETED* new [Re: Dwight56]
      #5798247 - 04/14/13 12:37 PM

Post deleted by saadabbasi

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5798294 - 04/14/13 01:17 PM

oh, so AP uses a master encoder for pre-programming the PEM?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: saadabbasi]
      #5798299 - 04/14/13 01:20 PM

Good Grief people.... give it break !!

SB has a long established history of quality products, and quality service. What we see here is one customer, who had an experience that he was not happy with.

SB did not refuse to address the customers issue. The customer did not to operate within the SB guidelines. And SB did respond to his post... with (apparently) direct email. The customer simply did not check his email !!

And OPT.... Holy Cow.... customer service right to the front door!

Lets not forget here that the customer seems to have been taken care of.

I am a customer of both SB, and OPT. I have had need of customer support (mostly answers to technical questions)... and the level of service from SB has always been up to the level of their superior reputation. In my humble opion, they are one of the finest astronomy vendors around. And OPT, lets not forget them. Outstanding service. Always!

I have had the please of meeting with some of the Bisque family at a recent astronomy show in Tucson, and enjoyed the experience. I will add that i meet the staff (and owner) of OPT there also. These are all great people to deal with.

When I read through this thread... I get that funny feeling that "something is not right here"...


And for all of you that are not going to purchase a SB product because of this thread.... Have you been following the other posts on products from other vendors ?? In todays marketplace, not every product is perfect every time. And... on CN, it appears that the minute something goes wrong, everyone wants to be a "pending customer" who is outraged, and is now going to "not buy from them"....

Good Grief !!!

My thanks to SB, and OPT for being quality companies, standing behind their products, and providing years of quality service to their customers.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
korborh
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/29/11

Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5798311 - 04/14/13 01:32 PM

Quote:

oh, so AP uses a master encoder for pre-programming the PEM?




Yes they use this high res encoder to ensure PE is smooth and within specs. They then store this PEC on the mount before shipping giving sub-arcsec tested PE out the box.
I was told by AP that this encoder gives accuracy at least as good as PEMPro if not better.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: korborh]
      #5798321 - 04/14/13 01:36 PM

Makes sense (the encoder).

And oh, I have not seen any similar story regarding AP gear.

Maybe I should ask Roland what sort of encoder he's using. Might help with my own encoder issues.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Footbag
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5798392 - 04/14/13 02:00 PM

Quote:

And for all of you that are not going to purchase a SB product because of this thread.... Have you been following the other posts on products from other vendors ?? In todays marketplace, not every product is perfect every time. And... on CN, it appears that the minute something goes wrong, everyone wants to be a "pending customer" who is outraged, and is now going to "not buy from them"....




I think most of it stemmed from the fact that they don't have phone support. That was a big surprise to me. Obviously, if you ship enough products, something will go wrong. It's how you respond when things go wrong that people pay attention to.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: Footbag]
      #5798476 - 04/14/13 02:22 PM

This "phone support" thing is part of "something is not right"....

I have had excellant support from SB. Most of the time, I post to their forum... and I always get a response, usually within a day or two... AND.... when they answer on the forum, the response is automaticcally sent to your email address. So you get the response both ways! ALWAYS !

But to the point of the "no phone support". I have personally been able to speak to them on at least three different occassions, and they are very responsive.

Now, as to "normal policy"..... yes, they would prefer that you post to the forums. I think there is probably a reason for that. Everyone can read the forums. And if you are having a problem, you may be able to find your answer there.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
gezak22
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 08/15/04

Loc: On far side of moon. Send help...
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5798488 - 04/14/13 02:27 PM

Quote:

Good Grief people.... give it break !!

SB has a long established history of quality products, and quality service. What we see here is one customer, who had an experience that he was not happy with.






No, apparently there have been at least three mounts with loose screws. To me, this points to poor QC. Loose metal is not acceptable as it can short things out. If it had been a plastic screw, I would let it slide, no problem.

I'm not surprised by OPT at all. Every single interaction I've had with them so far has been amazing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5798543 - 04/14/13 02:55 PM

Quote:

Good Grief people.... give it break !!







On edit, OPT is to be commended, that is for dern sure, and that is all I have to say. Would be nice to hear Software Bisque's side of the story.

Edited by rmollise (04/14/13 02:57 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5798557 - 04/14/13 03:01 PM

Quote:

This "phone support" thing is part of "something is not right"....

I have had excellant support from SB. Most of the time, I post to their forum... and I always get a response, usually within a day or two... AND.... when they answer on the forum, the response is automaticcally sent to your email address. So you get the response both ways! ALWAYS !

But to the point of the "no phone support". I have personally been able to speak to them on at least three different occassions, and they are very responsive.

Now, as to "normal policy"..... yes, they would prefer that you post to the forums. I think there is probably a reason for that. Everyone can read the forums. And if you are having a problem, you may be able to find your answer there.




Dave,

I would have to say that there is a difference between support on software like you have and new hardware like the OP. Online support forums are very much the norm for software these days. The point really is that, with some of the very visible problems that some astronomy companies have had recently, people are getting very touchy about support, especially on new product purchases. With the way the internet works, all companies have to be much more careful with how they handle customer support than they did in the past, even if they are generally very good about how they handle it. It's not fair, but a mistake or a bad policy can really hurt these days. But the best measure of a company these days is still not how good they are up front, but how good they are when the inevitable problem arises. We all face that. One thread, regardless of how long this one gets, will not put SB out of business and it may or may not cost them any, but it is not something than can be ignored in today's consumer climate.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5798609 - 04/14/13 03:33 PM

Quote:

Makes sense (the encoder).





You don't need a star to do pec runs with an encoder. The encoder will see all the errors without image train/seeing/PA errors.. So awesome not to have to use a star..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: EFT]
      #5798614 - 04/14/13 03:33 PM

Greetings Ed...

Hope you have a GREAT trip to NEAF, and a successful experience.

Yes, I use some of their software. But we (EVAC) have a SB mount over at the GRCO facility. We have had two major problems over the past 2-3 years, and both were "locally generated". SB provided assistance both times, over the phone, and the problems were resolved. That is part of what i was referring to.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: korborh]
      #5798770 - 04/14/13 04:31 PM

Quote:

I know someone who received a brand new PMX with scratches on the fork/body and was returned for replacement.




Unfortunately small scratches and blemishes on their mounts are not uncommon. They are almost unavoidable. If caught at the factory they will often cover them up with paint. You should have a rational response if you find something like that on your brad new mount. Use this as an opportunity to negotiate a discount on an accessory that you would like to purchase.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CharlesW
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/02/12

Loc: Chula Vista & Indio, CA
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: Alph]
      #5799525 - 04/14/13 10:01 PM

Mr. Douglas, "an experience that he was not happy with?" , "…did not operate within the SB guidelines", "simply did not check his email!!" I glad you feel this is all my fault.

This is the first indication that I had a problem. No response from any Bisque employee. http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/p/18195/76519.aspx#76519

My problem becomes more severe. http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/p/18254/76848.aspx#76848. The first response from Sarah Bisque asks for my firmware number. The second response from the company is Steve Bisque telling me he thinks this is an electronics problem. I don't have an ME or an EE but it was obvious to me there was an electronics problem. Attempting to get those numbers resulted in the complete destruction of my control board. You can watch the video, if it suits you.

Then I removed the electronics tray to expedite things for Mr. Dean from OPT. This is what I found http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/t/18273.aspx. No response from any employee at SB. And, you certainly can't be suggesting, "Something is not right here", that I planted those screws. If your are, I'd like you to plainly state it.

Finally, after I installed a loaner board from OPT, I found that my hand control would not work in the fashion that it should, http://www.bisque.com/sc/forums/t/18280.aspx. No forum response from any SB employee.

Bill Dean, once again, offered to drive to my house to assist me with the hand control problem. I refused because this is an 80 mile round trip for him. Instead, today I met him closer to his home. He gave me his personal HC to test on my mount. I drove back home and plugged it in. It behaved in the same manner that mine did so now I began to think there was a minor problem with the loaner board OPT gave me. I called Mr. Dean and told him that it didn't work. He told me that he had just got off the phone with Steve Bisque where Mr. Bisque gave him a suggestion for solving this problem. Mr. Bisque didn't call me, and although Mr. Dean is a great guy, it's not his problem. Fortunately, the suggestions worked and my hand control functions correctly.

Here are the totality of the emails I have received from SB, in the order I received them.

Hello Charles,
 
I talked with him (Bill Dean) just a little while ago and we got your index angles so you can do some troubleshooting. Here they are so you both can have a copy of them:
RA – 3410
Dec – 3337
 
Let us know of your results (he said he would keep us informed as well) and we will be sure to resolve this problem! Thank you for your patience.
 
Sarah Bisque
Production Engineer
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charles,

I don't know if there is anyone at OPT that can help you. In fact we are still trying to determine what is going on so I would not expect them to be able to help (though it is testimony to their customer service). Instead I think we should send a replacement controller. We have never hear those noises before.

Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Charles,
 
Can you send pictures of the screws you are talking about?
 
Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, if any of the Bisques had taken the time to send me a message saying, "This is the most serious thing we have on our plate right now and we are going to get you fixed immediately," I would have been happy. If they had simply called me on the phone and talked to me for a second, I would have been happy.

Mr. Douglas, thank you for pointing out to me that I didn't follow their rules after I gave them $8300 of my money 50 days ago for a product that didn't work out of the box. I'm also dreadfully sorry that after I was told I would have to deal with the catastrophic failure of my $8300 mount through their support forum, I failed to check my email. I appreciate that, at least to my reading, you believe that I've staged this whole thing. And when you meet the Bisques again, you can tell them what a problem you think I've been for them. Finally, I think you better get out and check your control board screws, especially if you are out of warranty. You might find yourself in my shoes.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: CharlesW]
      #5799552 - 04/14/13 10:14 PM

Hello Charles...

I see that you indeed do have a problem, more serious that i was reading. Nothing personal. I will back away now.

On edit: I should add...
That was a very detailed explanation, and (at least to me) and was well written out and detailed. Thank you for that.

Hopefully, SB and/or OPT will be able to get you squared away, and you are able to enjoy your mount for many years to come.

Edited by dmdouglass (04/14/13 10:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5799645 - 04/14/13 11:26 PM

I guess my question is, if you purchased the mount from OPT, why weren't they your first call? If I just bought a new car, and within the first few hours it died....I would call the dealership.....not the manufacturer.

Im thinking (in my feeble mind), that if im going to drop 9-10K on a mount (or whatever), I would be very familiar with their warranty/support policies.

Am I missing something?

Bravo to OPT for their amazing response. They are the retail dealer, they made a profit on the mount when it was sold, and IMHO, they should "fix" the situation.

Anyway.....just my 2 cents worth.

Andy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dmdouglass
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/23/07

Loc: Tempe, AZ
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: budman1961]
      #5799664 - 04/14/13 11:45 PM

Charles...

Private Message sent...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: dmdouglass]
      #5799778 - 04/15/13 01:17 AM

This is a major differences from AP. If you have a problem you call and talk with a real person that knows the mount inside and out. They will tell you anything that you wish to know and if you wish to buy a part they will sell it to you and send it quickly.
You might even talk with Roland, if he is not too busy. But you will talk with someone that actually understands support.
Hope you get everything fixed and to your satisfaction soon.
Blueman


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: blueman]
      #5799781 - 04/15/13 01:21 AM

Maybe SB has a much larger market that they can't do the personal hand-holding anymore? I know a lot of research is done with SB mounts so I imagine most of their market is government and universities, and not amateurs?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mmalik
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: An utterly disappointing experience new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5799792 - 04/15/13 01:43 AM

$9K is not a small sum by any measure. Phone support or not, OPT being helpful or not, etc., after all is said and done SB needs to replace OP's mount with a brand new unit if they are to clear their name and protect their reputation. Anything short of that is going to hurt them in the long run in my opinion. If it were me, I wouldn't have wanted anything lesser than that. Regards

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)


Extra information
30 registered and 42 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, richard7, bilgebay, iceblaze 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 5639

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics