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Equipment Discussions >> Electronically Assisted Astronomy

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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
PAL version of SCB-4000 new
      #5794381 - 04/12/13 12:52 PM

Due to its slower shutter (1/50), the PAL version can do longer integration (~10 sec). I plan to use the USB frame grabber and display that on laptop and may be further stacking via DSS.

However, I called B&H and surveillance-video.com but both do not carry the PAL version at US. I wonder if anyone had good hint on that.

Thanks!


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5794659 - 04/12/13 02:34 PM

I'd check for versions sold in the UK and Australia. Samsung does some strange things with model numbers to sell the same product in different geographic markets. Also have a look for the Samsung A2333 which is just about the same camera as the 4000, it is/was definitely available with PAL video.

Edited by mclewis1 (04/14/13 10:26 AM)


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warbird
member


Reged: 12/19/07

Loc: Sweden
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5794674 - 04/12/13 02:46 PM

I have a PAL version, but cant find out where I bought it. Somewhere in UK, but where...?
Anyway, it is called SCB-4000P (Label on box)

/Mats

Edit: here it is:
Buythis

Edited by warbird (04/12/13 02:53 PM)


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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: warbird]
      #5794728 - 04/12/13 03:21 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I would like to choose PAL simply because of extra 2 sec exposure compare to NTSC version (not because I "need" PAL). The response I got from US vendor was that they cannot sell PAL version in low quantity. Some restriction from Sam maybe?

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Atl
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/13/12

Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5794795 - 04/12/13 03:55 PM

Question: Beside a slight increase (very slight) in resolution what are the advantages of PAL?

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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Atl]
      #5794975 - 04/12/13 05:26 PM

Not other advantages (but disadvantage if one want to directly view the analogue feed) as far as I know.

10/8= 25% improvement which may not be "very slight".


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5796588 - 04/13/13 01:02 PM

Puck, you can buy the PAL SCB-4000 (SCC-A2333) here in Australia.

I bought mine from a Security Service about half an hour drive from my house.

You can use PAL the same as NTSC on any computer.
The only time you wil have a problem using PAL in the USA is when you want to do direct feed into a TV or monitor.
But that can be overcome by using a Video Enhancer/Stabiliser.

I actually do the opposite. Even though I have the PAL Samsung SCC-A2333 I also have an NTSC Mallincam Xtreme.
If I want to plug the NTSC Mallincam into a TV (we have PAL here) I use the Video Enhancer. But mostly it is always used straight into my laptop for broadcasting.

If you end up with the SCB-4000 (SCC-A2333) I made a tutorial on how to remove the built-in IR fliter

HERE: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4405444/page...

and how to make a simple wired remote control for it

HERE: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4117126/page...

and then, if you are a glutton for punishment, a cooling project for it

HERE: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4584518


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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5797064 - 04/13/13 04:39 PM

Ken, thanks for all the nice information. It was your YouTube video hook me on SCB-4000 PAL version. The video from 10-sec 12" Dob really prompt me to go this route.

IR filter has to go since I will use it for DSO. And your TEC cooling project also very interesting to try.

But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version.


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5797903 - 04/14/13 07:27 AM Attachment (21 downloads)

Puck, if you can't find a PAL supplier in USA have a look at this map and search in all the countries marked in Blue. They are all PAL countries.

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warbird
member


Reged: 12/19/07

Loc: Sweden
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5797949 - 04/14/13 08:26 AM

Quote:

...
But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version.



IYou have a link in my post above. Click on it, press Buy, how hard is that? :-)


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: warbird]
      #5798077 - 04/14/13 10:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...
But I am in US and have no easy way to get PAL version.



IYou have a link in my post above. Click on it, press Buy, how hard is that? :-)




That is an excellent price. Works out to be only $311.00 US dollars. Even after freight costs it is cheap.

I paid $490.00 for mine.


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warbird
member


Reged: 12/19/07

Loc: Sweden
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5798304 - 04/14/13 01:25 PM

Yes, I understand it is a good price. But when buying from US it may be a good idea to send a note to the seller that it is the PAL version that is wanted!

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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: warbird]
      #5799014 - 04/14/13 05:59 PM

Thanks, warbird. I missed your later added link. That was not hard once you found it.

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warbird
member


Reged: 12/19/07

Loc: Sweden
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5799799 - 04/15/13 01:54 AM

Quote:

Thanks, warbird. I missed your later added link. That was not hard once you found it.



Hope you will enjoy it!


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: warbird]
      #5799837 - 04/15/13 02:30 AM

Hey Puck, please keep us updated on your purchase and first use of it

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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5800345 - 04/15/13 11:44 AM

Definitely! Thanks for all the good info.

Although I am still wondering if I should get SCB-4000 or Lodestar depending on if 10-sec integration time would be sufficient for what I want to see and what I have.

My goal is to use XT8 to see as much DSO details as possible from my driveway NELM=3 (east sky) to 5 (zenith and west sky). I will use EQ platform for <1 min tracking.

The Samsung has 10-sec limitation but 1/2 price. That is my tradeoff.


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5804033 - 04/17/13 07:31 AM

Puck, what I have found is that with the Samsung's sensitivity I often end up REDUCING the Sens-up, not wanting to increase it.

I have many top results from dropping back to 5 seconds and increasing brightness and Contrast in the computer capture software.
Sometime, on some objects, 10 seconds is just too much.
It is a very sensitive chip.


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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5805581 - 04/17/13 09:44 PM

Ken, thanks for the sharing.

Did you reduce the sens-up in order to reduce noise or reduce star blooming? My main interest is to observe DSO.

In order to combat with LP and moon, I do plan to use some filter. Also, I only got a 8". So it seems getting more exposure capability may be beneficial.

And your sky seems to be quite good.


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Dragon Man
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/07/06

Loc: Snake Valley, Australia
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 new [Re: Puck Ja]
      #5806545 - 04/18/13 12:33 PM

Puck, I reduced the sens-up to below 10 seconds often because of burnout. Objects like M42 (Orion nebula) suffer severe core burnout at 10 seconds and that is with an ED80 telescope!
An 8" would be even worse.

Also bright Nebulae like Carina nebula and Tarantula nebula also burnout easily at 10 seconds.

Some large Globular clusters also appear cleaner and more colorful at around 5 seconds.

Jewelbox Custer looks far better around 3 - 4 seconds. It allows the colors of all the stars to pop out rather than making them all look like bright white dots.


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Puck Ja
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/21/12

Loc: OK, USA
Re: PAL version of SCB-4000 [Re: Dragon Man]
      #5806669 - 04/18/13 01:11 PM

Thanks a lot for the precious info. However, I will mainly use astrovideo for the "fussy faints" because I was a visual guy but just cannot get more details from the dimmer DSO. Therefore, I would like to use astrovideo to probe faint details (dust lanes instead core) from the DSOs such as M51, M101, M33, M81/82, etc.

Also to address the burnout/over-exposure issue, is it usually done by using shorter-exposure subframe and then stack them with some intelligence? This calls for high dynamic range imaging which may not achievable with video unless some exotic optics such as digital mirror array (TI's DMD) is used.


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