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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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neversummer
member
*****

Reged: 08/12/10

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17
      #5825418 - 04/26/13 10:22 PM

Indoor false alignment multiple times over the past year at 22.5° Celsius, everything works fine as it should, never any errors. Bring it outside and let it adjust to spring time temperatures approx. 8° Celsius, cool down time is 2 hours. Receive a no response 17 error upon slewing to first alignment star. Re-try procedure and get the same error several times. All connectors look new / clean, no corrosion, everything has been unplugged and re-plugged in, tried different power sources and still receive the same error on multiple occasions. Took apart hand control unit, all connectors look new and attached properly. Mount only seems to work outdoors during the summer evenings when it's approx. 18° Celsius. The mount seems to prefer warm temperatures, very frustrating. Any ideas? All I can think of is purchasing a new hand control unit... or a G11!

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5825436 - 04/26/13 10:36 PM

Cold = Bad for cable connections and contacts.

No Response 17 is usually due to a bad connection, most often with the power cable or handset cable. On the power cable, carefully spread the pin inside the post on the plug to create a tighter contact. On the hand controller, dunno. Maybe tape one of those hand warmer satchels to the side of the motor housing so that it hangs down over the cable plug junction and keeps it warmer.

Your best bet is to move to San Diego. Just ask Jon.

- Jim


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neversummer
member
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Reged: 08/12/10

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5825457 - 04/26/13 10:48 PM

Power cable connection is already quite snug, spreading the pin might make it difficult to insert. San Diego would be nice, Hawaii would be better.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5825505 - 04/26/13 11:32 PM

I dunno if this would work, but, what if you used a dew controller strips to heat the motor housing that houses the cable insertions?

8C isn't very cold, really, now that I think about it, and even here in California I often use my CG5 at 8C/46F without issue. It sure can be frustrating.

Two years ago my club and I went on a dark sky trip to the Mojave desert.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2673

I took a TEC 140 on a Celestron CGE. The first night everything worked perfectly. The next night, I couldn't get power from my battery to my mount. We checked all connections, tested the cables and sockets with a voltmeter, etc., and couldn't find an issue. I even had spare 12V sockets with battery clips, and it didn't matter. Eventually I borrowed a buddy's jumpstart battery, which worked perfectly. The set-up that worked the first night, but not the next, of course works fine here at home. Mystifying.

Hang in there.

- Jim


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pjensen
super member


Reged: 04/08/12

Loc: Highland Village, Tx
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5825530 - 04/27/13 12:06 AM

Quote:

Indoor false alignment multiple times over the past year at 22.5° Celsius, everything works fine as it should, never any errors. Bring it outside and let it adjust to spring time temperatures approx. 8° Celsius, cool down time is 2 hours. Receive a no response 17 error upon slewing to first alignment star.




This sounds like a cold solder joint. If you are any good with a a soldering iron (small tip) - you might try reheating the solder connections on the circuit board. This is a common problem now that manufacturers have to use lead free solder.

The best way to do this is to have a solder station with a temperature control, a solder sucker (with a motorized vacuum) and use silver solder.


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neversummer
member
*****

Reged: 08/12/10

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: pjensen]
      #5825898 - 04/27/13 09:01 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

What purpose does this transparent sticky tape serve on the board? Is it just to protect the joints?

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pjensen
super member


Reged: 04/08/12

Loc: Highland Village, Tx
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5825908 - 04/27/13 09:11 AM

Quote:

What purpose does this transparent sticky tape serve on the board? Is it just to protect the joints?




It is just to prevent a short circuit with something in the box. You can take it off to work on the board. Just put it back when you are done.


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BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: pjensen]
      #5825960 - 04/27/13 09:57 AM

Have to say, a number of the header solder points look weak / poorly done. Ideally, they should all look clean, well dressed. If you have the PCB work experience, I'd redo all the header PCB contact points just to clean things up and save some time, by not having to find the cold joint by trial and error. 15 minutes with the right iron and solder could solve the problem. The intermittent contact could also be caused by a poor cable connection in the plug assembly. Good luck.

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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: BlueGrass]
      #5826006 - 04/27/13 10:35 AM

You need to check the DEC circuits, cables and connections from the MC board to the power board (in the lower motor cover) and to the DEC board and to the motor(in the upper motor cover). This should include the external DEC cable and connectors. It could also be a bad encoder or connector on the DEC motor. Check the alignment and air gap of the encoder and encoder wheel.

Stan


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rtanton
Vendor (Explorer Scientific)
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Reged: 02/06/07

Loc: Mission Viejo, CA
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: BlueGrass]
      #5826029 - 04/27/13 10:47 AM

Quote:

Have to say, a number of the header solder points look weak / poorly done. Ideally, they should all look clean, well dressed. If you have the PCB work experience, I'd redo all the header PCB contact points just to clean things up and save some time, by not having to find the cold joint by trial and error. 15 minutes with the right iron and solder could solve the problem. The intermittent contact could also be caused by a poor cable connection in the plug assembly. Good luck.




I agree! Fix those solder joints as a first step.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5826604 - 04/27/13 03:55 PM

Quote:

Power cable connection is already quite snug, spreading the pin might make it difficult to insert.




Unlikely. And I have never seen a CG5 that didn't need it done.


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neversummer
member
*****

Reged: 08/12/10

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: rmollise]
      #5827550 - 04/28/13 12:05 AM

Cleaned all the boards but still receiving a No Response 17. Just spread the pin in the power connection so I'll see what happens next time out. If that fails I'll try re-soldering all the joints. Does Celestron still carry CG-5 boards just in case I destroy the ones I have? They're listed on Celestron's website but I can't find a dealer that carries the power and motor boards.

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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: neversummer]
      #5827598 - 04/28/13 12:57 AM

You have to buy the boards from Celestron. The last time I bought one it was shipped from Woodland Hills Telescope.

What are the symptoms when the "NO Response 17" is displayed? It could be the encoder on the DEC motor and not the MC board. Try swapping the DEC and RA motor connectors on the MC board and see what happens.

Stan


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neversummer
member
*****

Reged: 08/12/10

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5827615 - 04/28/13 01:06 AM

It will pause for a moment and then slew continuously until I shut off the power

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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5828212 - 04/28/13 12:08 PM

Quote:

You have to buy the boards from Celestron. Stan



Stan, If you note Neversummer's loc ... Celestron won't sell to him directly. He has to buy from a 3rd party.

Neversummer, Continuous runaway in one axis is very often the encoder/motor assembly. You can swap the motor assembly to prove this. You don't have to completely remove and re install everything. Just set it up on a bench and remove one motor assembly and connect it to the other harness. Then do a mock alignment. If the problem follows the motor assembly it's probably the encoder ... and I would follow Stan's solid guidance about checking the air gap and such. If it doesn't then as mentioned you're likely looking at the wiring harness or motor controller board.

If you are uncertain about going this far I would talk with Ed Thomas at deepspaceproducts.com. He posts here and on the Yahoo/Groups sites very often and is a wealth of knowledge at this level. He might also be a good source of parts should you need them.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5828302 - 04/28/13 01:03 PM

Third part from whom? Celestron does sell MC boards IF that is his problem. Which it is likely not.

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: rmollise]
      #5828324 - 04/28/13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Third part from whom? Celestron does sell MC boards IF that is his problem. Which it is likely not.




Celestron's policy for non-US residents has been to require them to buy parts from the service center in their country.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5828335 - 04/28/13 01:14 PM

Yep, missed that this was an overseas customer. Good part is that it's likely a power problem, not a motor control board.

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mclewis1
Thread Killer
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: rmollise]
      #5828858 - 04/28/13 06:11 PM

Quote:

Yep, missed that this was an overseas customer. Good part is that it's likely a power problem, not a motor control board.



Not overseas ... he's Canadian ... you know that little area up north.
Not likely a power problem ... he's used multiple power sources and addressed the power socket issues ... but connectivity is certainly still a possible issue.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Yet Another CG-5 AGST No Response 17 new [Re: mclewis1]
      #5828901 - 04/28/13 06:45 PM

I know where Canada is. Sorta.

Not sure about Celestron's policy with parts for them, though.

He dealt with the socket (spreading the pin)...but the way I read it he hasn't tried it yet.

Edited by rmollise (04/28/13 06:46 PM)


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