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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new
      #5821703 - 04/25/13 10:04 AM

Here again, another comparison. Looking for those with direct experience who could compare at least two of the three..

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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5821727 - 04/25/13 10:16 AM

Don't have the LVW's, just LVNs, but if they're as nice as the LVNs (with a larger FOV), with 20mm eye relief, they're great eyepieces. My 24 Pan, is a 24Pan, nuff said. The ES 82* 24mm to me is vaporware, ES's delays are why I broke down and got the Pan.....got tired of waiting. ES isn't doing themselves any favors with their constant delays.

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JimMo
I'd Rather Do It Myself


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5821753 - 04/25/13 10:39 AM

I have a 24 Pan and a 22 LVW. I've owned both a couple of times and am planning to keep them this time. The Panoptic is great in smaller telescopes and the LVW is excellent for public outreach with it's 20mm eye relief and flat field. Both are winners for sure. The ES? Like said above, have we ever seen one in the real world?

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chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: JimMo]
      #5821782 - 04/25/13 10:55 AM

Thanks Jim. Would you say you prefer the views of one over the other? Have you ever compared the two A/B?

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JimMo
I'd Rather Do It Myself


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Under the SE Michigan lightdom...
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5821900 - 04/25/13 11:56 AM

Quote:

Thanks Jim. Would you say you prefer the views of one over the other? Have you ever compared the two A/B?




Not really, but I've used both of them a lot. If I had to choose it would be difficult. I'd probably keep the Pan as it's a little lighter and smaller in size when used in small telescopes although it has a warmer tone than the cooler tone of the LVW.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: JimMo]
      #5822474 - 04/25/13 04:03 PM

I own the 22mm Vixen LVW and I did a shootout between a 24mm Pan and a 22mm Pan. IMO, the 24mm Panoptic is an excellent EP in a fast scope, but the 22mm LVW has longer eye relief and you can just take in the entire FOV if you wear glasses and have the eyecup off of the eyepiece.

I haven't tried a 24mm ES though.

As far as the shootout went, I preferred the eye relief of the 22mm Panoptic, but the 24mm Pan had better edge correction in a fast scope. If I had to do it all over again between the 22mm pan and 24mm Pan, I'd take the 24mm Pan over the 22mm Pan any day of the week.

IMO, the 22mm Vixen LVW is the BEST out of all three I mentioned. It also shows pinpoint stars right to the edges in my fast 10" F/4.7 reflector. It is excellent on the Double Cluster and more.


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CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5823302 - 04/25/13 10:45 PM

Some eons ago, I wrote this comparison of the Meade 24mm SWA, Pan 24, and Hyperion 24mm. Things were very different back then, price-wise, but I am glad I have the Pan 24. I have never looked thru an LVW, no one in our Club has one, so can't speak to its optics. I will concede they have a good reputation on CN, and have been given high marks by people whose opinion I value. That said, I have looked up the specs on the LVWs, and they're HUGE. Very heavy eyepieces. Far too heavy for my tastes. The Pan 24 is 8.4 oz and incredibly sharp. Yes, it has the old school TeleVue warm tone, but I've never seen details it left out that some more neutral toned eyepiece caught. In fact, extended nebula and faint stars in clusters pop out awfully nice with the Pan 24, in my experience. I do not wear glasses. But everyone's different with different predilections.

Good luck


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5823532 - 04/26/13 02:37 AM

Collin,

It seems that every eyepiece that really isn't *that heavy* seems heavy to you. You must be using a very small scope in order for you to think the ones you just mentioned are heavy. You've even said that some Pentax XW's are too heavy.

The 22mm LVW's and Pentax XW's aren't even heavy eyepieces, unless your scope is very small. Yes, the 24mm Pan is indeed a good eyepiece, but Bill P. and a few others have noted that the transmission was quite a bit lower than the 24mm ES or 24mm Meade 5000 SWA IIRC.


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chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5824202 - 04/26/13 11:41 AM

Not to get too far off my original post, but anyone ever compare the 22LVW with the 24mm Siebert Ultra? Would hate to start an all new post in this direction...

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dyslexic nam
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: PEI, Canada
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5824265 - 04/26/13 12:10 PM

This is a great review of eps in that fl. Maybe a bit more comprehensive than you need, but it has lots of comparative info and is by one of the very credible eyepiece gurus here on CN.

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CollinofAlabama
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/03

Loc: Lubbock, Texas, USA
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5824411 - 04/26/13 01:19 PM

Markus, read my review. Bill P is a GREAT eyepiece reviewer, for sure, but his eyesight is for him. He doesn't represent everyone. He represents himself, and there are, no doubt, many, many people who have similar vision to him that agree with him. If, however, you like widefield eyepieces and are not "distracted" by not being able to examine the field stop at a glance, and like 82* plus views (something I call "vision"), then you're in a different optical train than Bill. He has an almost fanatical hatred of "warm" eyepieces. To be fair, I prefer the Ethos/Delos neutrality to the T6/Plossl warmth, but I've not seen the latter's warm tones be a problem. On the contrary, I've seen TV Plossls and T6's clearly show MORE detail than lesser cost neutral ones (like the Meade 5000 line -- read JOC). Bill prefers the ES 24mm 68* to the Pan 24. Bill also lives near Washington DC, and probably doesn't get to enjoy real dark skies that often. I live in West Texas and do. To me, there's no doubt the Pan 24 is superior to the JOC 24mm offerings -- in resolving power! Obviously, I'm talking galaxies, nebulae, but even for clusters. Bill has his predilections, some of which I tend to agree with (his love of the ZAOs and XOs, e.g.), but about this particular perspective of his, I just have to say, check your own vision. Are you "upset" and "overwhelmed" by 82* plus eyepieces? If not, you might want to listen, at least regarding widefields, to someone like me. I like Bill a lot, but his vision, tho doubtless quite good, is his, and quite unlike mine, and many others (I personally believe, most others, btw). This post sums it up, to me. As usual in these things, YMMV.

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: CollinofAlabama]
      #5824534 - 04/26/13 02:22 PM

Sure thing Collin, but those EP's you mentioned are far too "heavy" for your scope. Getting "upset" over an eyepiece isn't something I would do.

As far as the WF goes and not being "distracted" by not being able to examine the field stop at a glance, I don't have that problem either because I stay away from those types of Ep's.

Good Luck


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chrisg
sage
*****

Reged: 02/15/09

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5824611 - 04/26/13 03:02 PM

Um, fwiw - I do enjoy BillP's reviews. They're definitely a big step up from the ubiquitous, baseless, "I've never looked through x eyepiece but they're definitely no good for planets" type discussions, (which should be banned as a rule around here); his work is much much appreciated. That being said, the 24-26mm shoot-out didn't include the 25mm Zeiss asph microscope eyepieces, or the Siebert 24 Ultra. I'm simply looking for a wide angle 24-26 that starts with the best transmission, sharpness so as not to lose too much through the prisms of a binoviewer..

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ohioalfa64
sage


Reged: 08/16/12

Loc: Ohio (NW)
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5824677 - 04/26/13 03:23 PM

I have compared the Vixen LVW22 (old style) and the 24 Pans. I find them very comparable. The price of the used Vixen is less than half of a used Pan. So, the Vixen wins that aspect. It is difficult to find two Vixens of the same design on the CN/AM marketplace. So, for binoviewing the Pans are still the best option.

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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: chrisg]
      #5824810 - 04/26/13 04:31 PM

Quote:

...but anyone ever compare the 22LVW with the 24mm Siebert Ultra?



I've had the 24mm Pan, the 22mm LVW, and also a 24mm Siebert Ultra for a brief period... and unfortunately, not all at the same time. Yet my memory of many aspects of each is quite clear.

The Siebert Ultra's are light of weight, excellent eye-relief, but suffer in edge-correction in a fast scope. I'd guess they're better at f10 (net) or so. I specifically went hunting for faint(er) stars with the 3-element 24mm Ultra, but didn't find it's optics particularly phenomenal in this regard.

The Pan & LVW are in their own class- one probably shared with Pentax XWs. The LVW & Pentax offerings are of wider girth & heavier weight, but also offer plenty of ER; the Pan is lighter, but waay shorter on ER.

The Pan was decidedly warm of tone, but brutally sharp, and cared not how "fast" the lightcone approached! Having used nearly all the LVW's, they are more neutral of tone (= less 'warm' than Pan?), equally sharp, and point-up stars even in crazy-fast (F3.75 anyone?) scopes!

Being a more recent Pentax user (10mm XW, didn't care too much for the older XL's i had... decent, but unspectacular), it seems possibly even cooler than the LVW, and at least as sharp. It actually rates as a "planetary EP" in my book, equaling in tone & detail the views in a CZ Jena Ortho!

Finally, i've recently added a 24mm Meade s.5000 SWA to the kit. Was deliberately intended for a small F~6 66mm 'fractor as a widest-field EP. Still evaluating it, but so far am unimpressed... i suspect it's loads of field-curvature i'm seein? Not AT ALL sharp in the outer 20% of field. I dunno... maybe better in a slower scope, or in a BVer with a speed-reducing OCA?

If the new ES24mm SWA is cut from the same mold, i'd definitely rank it below the big-3... the XW, LVW, & Pan. But it sounds like it's still vaporware, so


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ohioalfa64
sage


Reged: 08/16/12

Loc: Ohio (NW)
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans [Re: Mike B]
      #5836001 - 05/02/13 10:49 AM

In my 12.5" f4 Dobsonian, with a Paracorr (f4.5), I barely get to focus with the Vixen LVW 22mm with the Paracorr at the in-most setting (1? 5?). With the Pan 24mm there is no issue. I cannot get to focus with a Ethos 21mm.

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coutleef
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/21/08

Loc: Saint-Donat, Québec, Canada
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: Mike B]
      #5836160 - 05/02/13 12:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

...but anyone ever compare the 22LVW with the 24mm Siebert Ultra?



I've had the 24mm Pan, the 22mm LVW, and also a 24mm Siebert Ultra for a brief period... and unfortunately, not all at the same time. Yet my memory of many aspects of each is quite clear.

The Siebert Ultra's are light of weight, excellent eye-relief, but suffer in edge-correction in a fast scope. I'd guess they're better at f10 (net) or so. I specifically went hunting for faint(er) stars with the 3-element 24mm Ultra, but didn't find it's optics particularly phenomenal in this regard.

The Pan & LVW are in their own class- one probably shared with Pentax XWs. The LVW & Pentax offerings are of wider girth & heavier weight, but also offer plenty of ER; the Pan is lighter, but waay shorter on ER.

The Pan was decidedly warm of tone, but brutally sharp, and cared not how "fast" the lightcone approached! Having used nearly all the LVW's, they are more neutral of tone (= less 'warm' than Pan?), equally sharp, and point-up stars even in crazy-fast (F3.75 anyone?) scopes!

Being a more recent Pentax user (10mm XW, didn't care too much for the older XL's i had... decent, but unspectacular), it seems possibly even cooler than the LVW, and at least as sharp. It actually rates as a "planetary EP" in my book, equaling in tone & detail the views in a CZ Jena Ortho!

Finally, i've recently added a 24mm Meade s.5000 SWA to the kit. Was deliberately intended for a small F~6 66mm 'fractor as a widest-field EP. Still evaluating it, but so far am unimpressed... i suspect it's loads of field-curvature i'm seein? Not AT ALL sharp in the outer 20% of field. I dunno... maybe better in a slower scope, or in a BVer with a speed-reducing OCA?

If the new ES24mm SWA is cut from the same mold, i'd definitely rank it below the big-3... the XW, LVW, & Pan. But it sounds like it's still vaporware, so




dear mike

i bougth a 24mm ES ( my dealer had it for quite a long time and nobody was buying it, i was unaware it was backordered that much), and use it in my SCT. i did not try it in my dob but i would not say it is mediocre or in third place. i would hesitate between buying a pan24 or the es24. i was surprised by that Ep as i can use it with my glasses on which i can not do with the pan.

What would be my choice (having had a pan 24 in the past) between these EPs??

without hesitation, a pentax 20 xw


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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: coutleef]
      #5836712 - 05/02/13 04:43 PM

Hi François-

Quite possibly my Meade 24mm SWA is both eyeball-dependent as well as scope/FR-dependent? Normally FC doesn't bug my eyes too badly, but i suspect that is changing as my eyes age. Both scope *type* and FR play into how FC combines & presents, and so far my only use of the Meade 24SWA is in a small refractor; the FC (if this is what it truly is) may show very differently in a Dob or SCT.

It's also possible the Meade & ES versions are different designs... tho i doubt it.

In any event, the Meade presents issues i don't generally struggle with in other EPs i've owned or used- in ANY of my scopes. Hence my downgrading it below the "big three". But as we know with EPs, "YMMV"!
mike b


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: coutleef]
      #5836858 - 05/02/13 05:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

...but anyone ever compare the 22LVW with the 24mm Siebert Ultra?



I've had the 24mm Pan, the 22mm LVW, and also a 24mm Siebert Ultra for a brief period... and unfortunately, not all at the same time. Yet my memory of many aspects of each is quite clear.

The Siebert Ultra's are light of weight, excellent eye-relief, but suffer in edge-correction in a fast scope. I'd guess they're better at f10 (net) or so. I specifically went hunting for faint(er) stars with the 3-element 24mm Ultra, but didn't find it's optics particularly phenomenal in this regard.

The Pan & LVW are in their own class- one probably shared with Pentax XWs. The LVW & Pentax offerings are of wider girth & heavier weight, but also offer plenty of ER; the Pan is lighter, but waay shorter on ER.

The Pan was decidedly warm of tone, but brutally sharp, and cared not how "fast" the lightcone approached! Having used nearly all the LVW's, they are more neutral of tone (= less 'warm' than Pan?), equally sharp, and point-up stars even in crazy-fast (F3.75 anyone?) scopes!

Being a more recent Pentax user (10mm XW, didn't care too much for the older XL's i had... decent, but unspectacular), it seems possibly even cooler than the LVW, and at least as sharp. It actually rates as a "planetary EP" in my book, equaling in tone & detail the views in a CZ Jena Ortho!

Finally, i've recently added a 24mm Meade s.5000 SWA to the kit. Was deliberately intended for a small F~6 66mm 'fractor as a widest-field EP. Still evaluating it, but so far am unimpressed... i suspect it's loads of field-curvature i'm seein? Not AT ALL sharp in the outer 20% of field. I dunno... maybe better in a slower scope, or in a BVer with a speed-reducing OCA?

If the new ES24mm SWA is cut from the same mold, i'd definitely rank it below the big-3... the XW, LVW, & Pan. But it sounds like it's still vaporware, so




dear mike

i bougth a 24mm ES ( my dealer had it for quite a long time and nobody was buying it, i was unaware it was backordered that much), and use it in my SCT. i did not try it in my dob but i would not say it is mediocre or in third place. i would hesitate between buying a pan24 or the es24. i was surprised by that Ep as i can use it with my glasses on which i can not do with the pan.

What would be my choice (having had a pan 24 in the past) between these EPs??

without hesitation, a pentax 20 xw




Pentax XW 20 was not even one of the options! I bet you never vote for those on the ballot but always write in your candidates

XW 20 is my choice too, though!


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: Vixen LVW 22mm vs ES 24mm 68 vs 24 Pans new [Re: Starman81]
      #5837064 - 05/02/13 07:15 PM

Quote:

In my 12.5" f4 Dobsonian, with a Paracorr (f4.5), I barely get to focus with the Vixen LVW 22mm with the Paracorr at the in-most setting (1? 5?). With the Pan 24mm there is no issue. I cannot get to focus with a Ethos 21mm.




The 22mm LVW handles such a steep light cone of fast scopes, (in reflectors), that it doesn't need a Paracorr!


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