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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863293 - 05/15/13 10:03 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

I took off the three screws holding the housing backplate. Added some blaster to the shaft and clutch backplate and it began to move.

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863298 - 05/15/13 10:07 PM

The very end of the shaft has mushroomed (probably from somebody beating on it : ) so the clutch back plate has not come off completely. Need to sand down the end of the shaft where it is hanging up to get it off.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863577 - 05/16/13 12:22 AM

Quote:

Here is the irwin kit I bought from Amazon

Multi-spline Ext Set size range 1/8" to 7/8" 25 pieces. $64




I'm going to get one of those too - they seem to be better than left-handed drill bits and aren't going to break very easily.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5863584 - 05/16/13 12:25 AM

Is that blue paint brushed on? What a mess!

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5863588 - 05/16/13 12:28 AM

Quote:

Is that blue paint brushed on? What a mess!




Yep. It looks like as rust started on the steel parts of the scope it got a coat of light blue paint.


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5863631 - 05/16/13 01:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is the irwin kit I bought from Amazon

Multi-spline Ext Set size range 1/8" to 7/8" 25 pieces. $64




I'm going to get one of those too - they seem to be better than left-handed drill bits and aren't going to break very easily.




The amazon reviews said that these are far superior to the left handed bits and the extractors for screws. I agree. These are bullet proof. One tip though. After inserting the spline, tap it several times with a hammer to set it. Also, follow the instructions. Use the drill bit recommended for the spline.


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Greg Boynton
member


Reged: 05/29/09

Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863726 - 05/16/13 03:16 AM

Good job! Those fluted extractors are excellent. I just replaced the track rollers on my bulldozer undercarriage. Had to extract 31 broken grade 8 bolts. Used exactly the same method, but on a larger scale. Drill, heat to cherry red, then drive in the extractor and turn quickly before the surrounding metal cools. I found I could use them about 10 times on hard bolts before the flute edges got too chipped and wouldn't bite.

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Greg Boynton]
      #5863936 - 05/16/13 09:00 AM Attachment (22 downloads)

I trimmed down an allen wrench to fit inside the end of the RA assembly and got the setscrews out (two).

How do I get the collar off? It won't budge. It seems like it turns a 1/2" back and forth, but does not spin all the way around and certainly doesn't want to slide off.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5864001 - 05/16/13 09:27 AM

That's not a collar - that's the actual Sealmaster Bearing. with the set screws removed on both ends, you should be able to bop the RA Shaft out now using a rubber mallet. Watch out for gouges like the one in the photo because they may prevent it from sliding out all the way. I think it's easier to bop the top end of the shaft. A little WD40 in there between the shaft and the bearing might help too. Sometimes, the bearing will come out with the shaft when you're doing this.

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Escher
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Fenton, MI
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5864270 - 05/16/13 11:40 AM

Awesome thread - I'm watching and green with envy - its going to be a beautiful scope when you are done...

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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5864576 - 05/16/13 01:32 PM

Glad you got the clutch plate off Turk, I might give mine another try next time I need to go in there and see if it will come off. All my setscrews were fine with an allen wrench, I just couldnt get the clutch plate to move in any direction, it was frozen to the shaft and I didnt want to chance warping it trying to force it off.

I was dubious about Cave using telephone wire to drive the dec motor, but it's rated for the voltage and current being used and would be ok as long as the insulation is in good shape. Being me, I replaced it with 600v stranded wire bundled in heat shrink tubing and that works just as well with a little extra margin of safety.


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terraclarke
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5864940 - 05/16/13 04:02 PM

I can't believe how much you have accomplished thus far in such a short time.

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pbealo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/12/06

Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: terraclarke]
      #5865511 - 05/16/13 06:39 PM

I'm with Terra! You make the rest of us, especially me, look like turtles!

Peter B.


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: pbealo]
      #5865765 - 05/16/13 08:11 PM

Well, my wife is wondering why I'm missing in action. I do enjoy working on the scopes. It is a real challenge especially if something gets broke. There are no replacement parts on the shelf.

It is my birthday tomorrow. We're headed to Pittsburgh's Imax for the new Star trek 3D movie. I'm taking the day off.


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5865885 - 05/16/13 09:13 PM

Quote:

Glad you got the clutch plate off Turk, I might give mine another try next time I need to go in there and see if it will come off. All my setscrews were fine with an allen wrench, I just couldnt get the clutch plate to move in any direction, it was frozen to the shaft and I didnt want to chance warping it trying to force it off.

I was dubious about Cave using telephone wire to drive the dec motor, but it's rated for the voltage and current being used and would be ok as long as the insulation is in good shape. Being me, I replaced it with 600v stranded wire bundled in heat shrink tubing and that works just as well with a little extra margin of safety.




I too was wondering about the thin wire. Mine will be a little more substantial also.

About the clutch plate. I am wondering if this area is susceptible to condensation or over the years a varnish of grease sliding down the shaft to this area. Everything is buggard. The bearing on the housing end was frozen and even now I am unable to pound the shaft out. It is now getting a soaking of Blaster and WD-40 from the other end and oozing down the shaft to the housing end. When I dump the oil mixture, it is a rusty brown color from rust on or in the bearings. I will keep soaking it tonight.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5866381 - 05/17/13 02:49 AM

The good news is that you're almost done with the dirty work! Once the disassembly, paint removal and clean up is done, the fun stuff begins - painting and putting it all back together again!

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5866584 - 05/17/13 08:16 AM

Well, after soaking both ends in Blaster and WD-40, I am getting to the problem. The Sealmaster bearings that sit on top of the roller bearings and looks like a collar, appear to be frozen to the bearing below. I removed the two set screws from the bearing on the side closest to the motor housing and I am using a rubber mallet to hit the end of the shaft at this end. The shaft is now moving (ever so slightly, I stopped at a 1/4" of movement) but the bearings (on top, both ends) are not. The shaft is held by the bearing on the other end with two more set screws I have not removed yet. The shaft is sliding through this bearing even though the set screws are still in.

So I believe these top bearings on each end are rusted to the bearing below. Or they are press fit to each other.

Edit: It was brought to my attention that the what I am calling a bearing with the set screws still in, is actually a collar. Only one bearing at the other end.

I think my only course of action would be to drill the outside casing to allow an allen wrench access to the bearing that is still set screwed to the shaft. I tried making an even shorter allen wrench, but there is just not enough room to get a bite on the set screw. Freeing that would allow the shaft to come out exposing the bearings and possible make it easier to split them away from each other. Or, just clean them as they are and reinstall the shaft. Comments?

Edit: I read Datapanics restore again and it looks like you were able to make allen wrenches to get at this. I will try grinding another brand of wrench with a tighter radius curve in it.

Edited by turk123 (05/17/13 09:35 AM)


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5866843 - 05/17/13 10:46 AM

Turk

The upper end has a press fit aluminum trim ring, If you havent taken it out already, removing that will give you more room. I used a thin knife tapped against the seam where the insert and mount are joined. Start at the bottom to hide any marring at the initial site. once you get it started, go all around to even it out. then if youre careful, its not hard to lever it out with two screwdrivers rocking it out on opposite sides. Hope you get it out.


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5866895 - 05/17/13 11:12 AM

This might be a case where one of those arbor presses from HF tools might come in real handy!

-Tim.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5866970 - 05/17/13 11:58 AM

Quote:

Well, after soaking both ends in Blaster and WD-40, I am getting to the problem. The Sealmaster bearings that sit on top of the roller bearings and looks like a collar, appear to be frozen to the bearing below. I removed the two set screws from the bearing on the side closest to the motor housing and I am using a rubber mallet to hit the end of the shaft at this end. The shaft is now moving (ever so slightly, I stopped at a 1/4" of movement) but the bearings (on top, both ends) are not. The shaft is held by the bearing on the other end with two more set screws I have not removed yet. The shaft is sliding through this bearing even though the set screws are still in.

So I believe these top bearings on each end are rusted to the bearing below. Or they are press fit to each other.

Edit: It was brought to my attention that the what I am calling a bearing with the set screws still in, is actually a collar. Only one bearing at the other end.

I think my only course of action would be to drill the outside casing to allow an allen wrench access to the bearing that is still set screwed to the shaft. I tried making an even shorter allen wrench, but there is just not enough room to get a bite on the set screw. Freeing that would allow the shaft to come out exposing the bearings and possible make it easier to split them away from each other. Or, just clean them as they are and reinstall the shaft. Comments?

Edit: I read Datapanics restore again and it looks like you were able to make allen wrenches to get at this. I will try grinding another brand of wrench with a tighter radius curve in it.




I did go through a couple before I had one just the right length. You don't want to start bopping on the shaft until all 4 set screws are out - otherwise you risk them gouging the shaft and that'll make it even harder to get them apart.

Even with the set screws removed, 1/2 the time, I've had the shaft come out one end or the other with one of the bearings still attached.


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