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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5858742 - 05/13/13 10:23 PM

If you're going to cut slots for screwdrivers, use a hack saw instead of a chisel. I've done that when I've sheared a rusty bolt off the Model A, and it works pretty well if you have enough bolt protruding, as you appear to have here. If that doesn't work, drill them out with an undersized drill, progressing to larger sizes until all that's left of the setscrew is the threads, which are easy enough to get out by that point.

But hopefully you don't have to go that far.

-Tim.


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: tim53]
      #5858760 - 05/13/13 10:30 PM

I will give both of those ideas a try. I am going to have to replace them anyway.

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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5858784 - 05/13/13 10:41 PM

I would also try smothering them with Liquid Wrench or WD-40 and on the front and back sides of the Clock Drive Housing Backplate and let them soak for a while - maybe even applying more of the stuff after a 1/2 hour or so.

Then use ViceGrips on 'em! But go slow and be careful because those are steel allen head bolts going into aluminum and they can gall the inside threads where they go into the RA Shaft Housing and make it even more difficult to get out. There's also the risk that the bolts will snap and break.

Heating them with a mini butane torch might help loosen them up too.


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5858815 - 05/13/13 10:54 PM

Cutting a notch was easy, but it just tore away tho sides. I am drilling it out. Problem is, these set screws are some kind of hardened steel (makes sense) and I may need a lot of drill bits. I am going to get it on my drill press tomorrow. I have to find a way to secure it so it doesn't turn.

Drilling is almost like polishing the hole your drilling. Goes no where!


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tim53
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5858832 - 05/13/13 10:58 PM

Can you get the RA shaft out of the housing? Because Dan's right, a pair of vice grips (small ones) would be the best thing here. Yeah, those puppies can be HARD from probably having been stamped. So you might even ruin a drill bit or two trying to drill them out.

Do you own an easy out? A drill that twists counterclockwise?

-Tim.


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John Higbee
super member
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Virginia
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5858833 - 05/13/13 10:58 PM

Tom - think I may have a lead on an original 50mm Cave finder for you - PMs sent to your cave-astrola.com address.

Great progress on the 10" Cassegrain...keep on truckin'!

John


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: tim53]
      #5858847 - 05/13/13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Can you get the RA shaft out of the housing? Because Dan's right, a pair of vice grips (small ones) would be the best thing here. Yeah, those puppies can be HARD from probably having been stamped. So you might even ruin a drill bit or two trying to drill them out.

Need a diamond tip drill bit.

Do you own an easy out? A drill that twists counterclockwise?

-Tim.




Cant get the shaft out unless this piece comes off. Shaft goes out the other way. I do have an easy out. I just have to find it. The one I drilled is halfway cut, so the easy out won't work for it.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: John Higbee]
      #5858852 - 05/13/13 11:08 PM

There are left-handed carbide machinists drill bits that are good for drilling them out. The bits spin counter-clockwise and usually, will eventually remove what's left of the bolt if it comes to that.

If the heads are off and you can get the backplate off, then you can use more Liquid Wrench or WD-40 to get in there and hopefully free things up.

I'm kinda surprised those specific bolts are on so tight! I've never had problems in that area. But, you never know what surprises will come along. The good part is that you're almost there!


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5858873 - 05/13/13 11:15 PM

Here's the link about the set screws that hold the shaft on to the Seal Master Bearings: Linky about 4th post down

You're right that the back plate has to come off if you want to get the RA shaft outta there. It can come out either way, but once everything is clear, usually it's from the front to back/dec shaft housing end to the rear because the rust and gunk on the end of the RA shaft will bind up if you try to take it out the other way. Some folks just leave the RA shaft in the RA Shaft Housing, tape it up and paint it - really, there's no need to take it that far apart as it's just the two Seal Master bearings on either end and the RA Shaft is probably pristine between the bearings. The bearings are also pressed in to the RA Shaft Housing - same with the Dec Shaft bearings.


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5858899 - 05/13/13 11:25 PM

There is a setscrew on the cap on the other end. I have to grind down an allen wrench to make it reach, might be worth a try. There is very little rust on the shafts. I would like to get at the bearings to clean.

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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5858900 - 05/13/13 11:26 PM

One other trick that has worked for me a few times with stuck bolts is to try and tighten them up just a tiny bit and then see if they will back out.

But if all else fails, take it to the Machine Shop! Had to do that with a couple mount parts on the Maynard Clark.


Edited by Datapanic (05/13/13 11:27 PM)


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5859209 - 05/14/13 06:54 AM

Off this morning to get some left handed drill bits. My research last night points to this as maybe the answer and as some suggested. The set screw thread is 1/4 20 NC. I have a tap for that when I get the bugger out . . .

I have a friend who rebuilds vintage aircraft. He has a machine shop and I'm sure works with old rusted bolts a lot. I may give him a call.

Edited by turk123 (05/14/13 06:58 AM)


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5859221 - 05/14/13 07:07 AM Attachment (15 downloads)

I looked at the wiring and although frayed a bit and needing replacement, the circuit looked sound so . . . I plugged it in. The filament glowed red and the motor began turning ever so slowly. I slid the case off the back of the motor ( it was lose anyway) and see the fine gears inside. Reminds me of the old AC kitchen clocks, which it basically is.

Edited by turk123 (05/14/13 09:24 AM)


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5859222 - 05/14/13 07:07 AM Attachment (17 downloads)

Here is the inside

No sense taking this further apart. I just used a Q-tip to add sewing machine oil to the ever so slightly exposed gears. I need to clean it up a little also. Gears are now as silent as can be. Before I heard a "ticking" sound.

Edited by turk123 (05/14/13 07:10 AM)


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Greg Boynton
member


Reged: 05/29/09

Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5859765 - 05/14/13 12:19 PM

Thanks for sharing your project and all the great photo's. I've really enjoyed reading.

+1 on using heat and easyout. You can probably drive a small easyout into the allen head. If you cannot get it in far enough to bite, a cobalt drillbit will easily drill the setscrew. One nice thing about aluminum is it will expand a lot to help get the screws loose when you heat it.


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Greg Boynton]
      #5861064 - 05/14/13 10:10 PM

Quote:

Thanks for sharing your project and all the great photo's. I've really enjoyed reading.

+1 on using heat and easyout. You can probably drive a small easyout into the allen head. If you cannot get it in far enough to bite, a cobalt drillbit will easily drill the setscrew. One nice thing about aluminum is it will expand a lot to help get the screws loose when you heat it.




I tried the heat on it, but the problem is the hex head is rounded. I'm beginning to think that Mr. Trombino has some slippage here sometime way back. My guess is he kept tightening them and rounded the setscrews. They just never felt tight. The other problem is there is no wat to get into that space to grab the setscrews.

I have some removers showing up from Amazon tomorrow. Will give the a shot. All this time I am soaking the setscrews in Blaster.


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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861065 - 05/14/13 10:11 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

While I wait for the removers (I'll get the right name in a bit) I decided to remove some paint with my favorite remover of aircraft.

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turk123
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861068 - 05/14/13 10:12 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Fini

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turk123
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861070 - 05/14/13 10:12 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

And another item

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turk123
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861072 - 05/14/13 10:13 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

One more finis

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