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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861075 - 05/14/13 10:14 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Another part

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rdandrea
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/13/10

Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861100 - 05/14/13 10:24 PM

It's fun to watch this labor of love. Please keep the pictures and status reports coming.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861180 - 05/14/13 10:58 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for sharing your project and all the great photo's. I've really enjoyed reading.

+1 on using heat and easyout. You can probably drive a small easyout into the allen head. If you cannot get it in far enough to bite, a cobalt drillbit will easily drill the setscrew. One nice thing about aluminum is it will expand a lot to help get the screws loose when you heat it.




I tried the heat on it, but the problem is the hex head is rounded. I'm beginning to think that Mr. Trombino has some slippage here sometime way back. My guess is he kept tightening them and rounded the setscrews. They just never felt tight. The other problem is there is no wat to get into that space to grab the setscrews.

I have some removers showing up from Amazon tomorrow. Will give the a shot. All this time I am soaking the setscrews in Blaster.




Did you remove the back side of the Clutch Assembly? You should be able to disassemble everything on that end of the RA Shaft so that all you have is the RA Shaft Housing, the Clock Drive Housing Backplate and the RA Shaft sticking out. There shouldn't be anything in the way for grabbing at those set screws.

It should look something like this (less the clock drive motor/bracket, worm gear, etc.):


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: Datapanic]
      #5861537 - 05/15/13 06:42 AM

Dan

Your thinking of the wrong set screws. The ones I am having problems with are the ones holding the clutch and gear to the shaft. They are between the clutch back and the RA shaft housing. They hold the clutch back to the shaft. Your picture is what I am trying to achieve: removal of the clutch back.

What I ordered is called an Irwin hex head multi-spline extractor set. Say that ten times. I hope it can grab the screw I drilled. I am also gonna try to find some cobalt left handed drill bits.

On the lighter side, I found a friend with a 9 inch lathe (everyone needs a friend with a lathe). I am going to try to turn the counterweights and take a few thousandths off and to smooth the surface for polishing.


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pbealo
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/12/06

Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861601 - 05/15/13 08:05 AM

That extractor set is now on my Amazon wish list. Thanks!
Peter B.


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861744 - 05/15/13 09:32 AM

Turk, I had the opposite problem with my Cave. I got the set screws out of my clutch plate, but I never could get the clutch assembly to move on the shaft, soaked it in blaster, etc etc. It was just frozen to the shaft. Finally gave up and took the drive housing base plate loose in order to clean and lubricate the rear polar shaft bearing.

Hopefully your clutch plate will come off easy once you have the set screws extracted.

Let me know if you need any brass thumbscrews, for the finder rings or drive housing cover, I ordered several boxes of them from McMaster Carr and the jam nuts as well and have some extra ones left over.


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5861960 - 05/15/13 11:40 AM

Boy! That's not encouraging news. I spend three days getting the setscrews out only to find the clutch plate seized on the shaft. It is 1 1/2 inches in diameter. A block of wood and a large hammer should make it move.

I am wondering what holds the shaft from moving into the motor housing side? There is a gap of about a 1/4" between the collar on the clutch backing plate and the housing plate. Shouldn't the shaft move enough to close that gap? If I take off the clutch plate backer, should the shaft slide out the other end? Mine does not move now.


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chuck52
sage
*****

Reged: 12/03/09

Loc: Quartz Hill,California
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861983 - 05/15/13 11:53 AM

Turk,
I had the same problem too with a stuck clutch plate.No amount of prying would break it free.Finally resorted to a 3 jaw puller used in automotive work.Sounds terrible but it did the job easily and without bending or breaking anything.I was actually suprised how little effort it took to pull it off with the puller yet it was so stubborn with other methods.Just a thought.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5861984 - 05/15/13 11:54 AM

Got it on which set screw you're talking about now I've seen the clutch plate still stuck sometimes even after that set screw is removed - if the clutch plate was ever loose and that set screw gouged the RA shaft, it'll make pulling the clutch plate off a little difficult.

Once you get the clutch plate back and the housing plate off, there are only 4 more set screws to go! These are on the bearings and you need to shorten the end of an allen wrench so it can get to them inside the ra housing. Then, the shaft should be free to slide out.


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5862050 - 05/15/13 12:28 PM

The front and rear bearings hold the polar shaft in place with setscrews.

I suppose if you take the front bearing setscrews loose you might be able to press the rear bearing out of the mount but it would not be easy. I've seen others drill a hole in the housing to reach the setscrew. When it's filled and painted, thats invisible. the front one you can just cut an allen wrench so its short enough to fit, but the baseplate is in the way at the back if the clutch is stuck.

The bearings are still available if you mangle one trying to press it out, but go for 50 dollars or so I think.


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5862066 - 05/15/13 12:37 PM

Quote:

The front and rear bearings hold the polar shaft in place with setscrews.

I suppose if you take the front bearing setscrews loose you might be able to press the rear bearing out of the mount but it would not be easy. I've seen others drill a hole in the housing to reach the setscrew. When it's filled and painted, thats invisible. the front one you can just cut an allen wrench so its short enough to fit, but the baseplate is in the way at the back if the clutch is stuck.

The bearings are still available if you mangle one trying to press it out, but go for 50 dollars or so I think.



P.S. If you decide to go Armageddon on it and drill an access hole for the rear set screws, do it on the bottom side where you wont see it once its back together. Important point.


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: dgreyson]
      #5862151 - 05/15/13 01:05 PM

OK, so there is one more bearing inside the housing. Good.

I just bought some cobalt drill bits to tackle the setscrew. I need to drill a small hole into one of the set screws for the multi spline extractor to get a bite.

I like the idea off a puller to get the plate off. Hopefully I won't need it.

Just picked up some new set screws to replace the one's I am mangling. See! I'm being positive that they will come off.

Thanks to all for the suggestions!


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DAVIDG
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Hockessin, De
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5862203 - 05/15/13 01:22 PM

Heat the set screws. You can use a soldering iron to get them good and hot without the risk of using a torch. It's amazing what a little thermal cycling will do to break a stuck bolt free. It also will allow the penetrating oil to work do into the threads. An old trick that really does work is to melt candle wax into the threads and heat up the bolt or nut. It will work down into the threads and lubricate them.

- Dave


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: DAVIDG]
      #5862939 - 05/15/13 07:01 PM

Got-them!!!!!

The set screws are out / clutch back plate is loose!

How it was done and Film and pictures at 11:00. Wife wants to go eat!


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863262 - 05/15/13 09:48 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

I took lots of pictures of the wiring knowing I had to put this together one day. Here are a few.

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863264 - 05/15/13 09:48 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

Wiring two . . .

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863265 - 05/15/13 09:49 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

So, here is the bugger that is stuck like all get out.

Edited by turk123 (05/15/13 09:50 PM)


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863280 - 05/15/13 09:55 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

So I used almost all of your techniques. I soaked in blaster. I heated the setscrew up this time to very hot. and let it cool. Added more blaster, heated it up again. I bought some cobalt bits. I put the whole thing on my drill press and used the 5/16" cobalt bit under a lot of pressure. It seemed to go nowhere. Of course I was halfway into the setscrew from the previous day. It was slow going until I got a small hole about an 1/8" deep. I tried one of these new bad boys.

Edited by turk123 (05/15/13 10:08 PM)


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863287 - 05/15/13 09:58 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

I could not get it to bite into the metal. I took it off the drill press and used a new cobalt bit and started drilling again. It seems as if the center of these setscrews are very hard steel. As I got through the 1/4" center, the bit took off and drilled all the way to the shaft. I heated the aluminum around the setscrew. I used the appropriate extractor to get it out. It bit easily into the deeper hole. Turned right out.

I drilled into the soft top of the second setscrew, used the extractor, and out it came also. Very easy.

Edited by turk123 (05/15/13 10:09 PM)


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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Elli Buk Cave 10" Cassegrain [Re: turk123]
      #5863291 - 05/15/13 10:00 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Here is the irwin kit I bought from Amazon

Multi-spline Ext Set size range 1/8" to 7/8" 25 pieces. $64

Edited by turk123 (05/15/13 10:04 PM)


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