Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Astrophotography and Sketching >> Solar System Imaging & Processing

Pages: 1
Fogboundturtle
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Hard time with processing Saturn
      #5841641 - 05/05/13 01:04 PM

I went out last night and shot Saturn with my C8. The seeing was murky and terrible. My first problem was the gain had to be high to keep the frame rate above 30fps. That was at F10. I couldn't even think of trying F20 at this point.

This is the best result I was able to get.


Edited by Fogboundturtle (05/05/13 01:04 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AlanL
sage


Reged: 11/11/10

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5841775 - 05/05/13 02:26 PM

What % fill were you getting on your histogram? 30fps isn't too bad for Saturn. I'm commonly down around 15 to 25 at f25. Good seeing makes a huge difference too. Keep trying.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kokatha man
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/13/09

Loc: "cooker-ta man" downunda...
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: AlanL]
      #5842388 - 05/05/13 08:29 PM

I've no experience with a C8 nor the DMK camera Foggy, but as Alan said seeing makes the difference between image outcomes: if it was murky and poor seeing then you're really behind the 8-ball!

When you get a good night I'm sure things will be considerably different and you'll get a nice clear, crisp image onscreen and be able to up the image scale AND get a reasonable FPS! (and it's all about hanging in there mate through the "good, bad & ugly!"...last night we got nothing out in our Mallee Country and even had to cover the scope because of light rain)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Timthelder
super member


Reged: 06/12/12

Loc: Bowling Green KY
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5842464 - 05/05/13 09:11 PM

Yep, seeing was your main nemesis, not to mention elevation. I've had several nights where I have been out and the seeing was so bad I didn't even bother to capture a single AVI.

But as Darryl said hang in there, still a good month or so's worth of imaging time.

Tim.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fogboundturtle
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Kokatha man]
      #5843240 - 05/06/13 10:44 AM

Quote:

I've no experience with a C8 nor the DMK camera Foggy, but as Alan said seeing makes the difference between image outcomes: if it was murky and poor seeing then you're really behind the 8-ball!

When you get a good night I'm sure things will be considerably different and you'll get a nice clear, crisp image onscreen and be able to up the image scale AND get a reasonable FPS! (and it's all about hanging in there mate through the "good, bad & ugly!"...last night we got nothing out in our Mallee Country and even had to cover the scope because of light rain)




This was with the ASI120mm


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JoeR
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Columbus, OH
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5843318 - 05/06/13 11:24 AM

I empathize all my attempts this year have been ruined by poor seeing. I can't even get an accurate focus because the image won't stay steady long enough.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ToxMan
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: JoeR]
      #5843359 - 05/06/13 11:49 AM

For what it is worth, and you may ignore it...

Always start at f20 with a C8. I used a C8 for several years and never shot a planet at f10. It's too small to work with. If the seeing is bad at f20, then decide if it's time to shut down for that session and try again later.

Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zAmbonii
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/19/08

Loc: Ypsilanti, MI
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5843745 - 05/06/13 02:39 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

To be honest, with the ASI cameras, I really don't think you have to worry TOO much about the amount of gain. My two sessions a couple of nights ago I was running at 100% gain and I was able to get decent captures out of it.

Like the others have said, seeing is King. If the image looked bad at f/10, then you weren't likely to get any decent image no matter what. I think I am going to put together a video of some of my latest captures showing how the image looked when capturing and how the final image turned out after processing. It really does take a bit of experience with bad seeing and then processing those images to figure out whether or not it is worth it to do captures for the seeing conditions.

Saturn it tough. When I moved to the ASI120MC camera, the amount of frames I captures allowed me to get really decent Jupiter images in about 2.5-3 out of 5 seeing. With Saturn, for me, the seeing really needs to be about 3.5-4 out of 5 to get a decent image with a clear Cassini division and cloud bands.

When you get some decent seeing, you may want to experiment on camera settings. 100% gain, and shooting at f/10 with your C8, you should have been able to go higher than 30fps.

The last two times out when imaging at f/20 with my 120MC, I was shooting with 100% gain, 23fps and my histogram was around 60%, I decided to get more frames the next night out and was shooting 100% gain, 30fps with the histogram at 50%

If you are shooting at f/10, if you drop the histogram to 50%, then you should be able to get around 60fps at 100% gain. Below is a screenshot of one of my videos from 5/2, and also the final processed image, it was shot at f/20, 100% gain, 30fps and histogram at 50%.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fogboundturtle
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: zAmbonii]
      #5843959 - 05/06/13 04:38 PM

wow I need help processing.Do you mind sharing your methodology ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zAmbonii
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 01/19/08

Loc: Ypsilanti, MI
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5844122 - 05/06/13 06:10 PM

I'll post something a little later tonight. I'll even upload the .avi for ya to give it a try yourself, and outline the things that I did. I'm pretty sure that someone may even be able to do a better processing job than I did .

The seeing for the image above was probably around 3.5 out of 5. Thing was about 15 minutes before that the seeing was pretty bad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JoeR
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Columbus, OH
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: zAmbonii]
      #5844252 - 05/06/13 07:22 PM

I'd like that too my planetary processing skills are poor compared to DSOs.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ToxMan
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: JoeR]
      #5844561 - 05/06/13 10:22 PM

Hey guys...Fernando recently asked folks about the routines they use. Here's the link: Fernando's post

I can give some details what I'm currently doing, for what it is worth...

1. Capture AVI at f20 (with DMK camera...these procedures may vary with ASI camera...I don't know. I'm using IC Capture.)
2. Run AVI thru AutoStakkert 2 for alignment and stacking, and take image to Registax 6. At this point, it is a TIF.
3. Sharpen the image from AS2 in Registax 6, I check the boxes "hold wavelet settings, linear and Gaussian" for Saturn.
4. Instead of using 6 layers, I un-check boxes 4, 5 and 6, and begin playing with the settings in layers 1 thru 3.
5. I have a lot pre-sets and load the scheme for the planet whose image I'm sharpening. These schemes come from experience. And I have to make adjustments according to desired results as this is just a starting point.
6. I usually adjust sliders first, moving 1 to about 50, 2 to about 30, and 3 to about 15.
7. Then I begin increasing settings with "sharpen" buttons. For Saturn, I'm around 0.160 to 0.200.
8. Then I begin increasing the "de-noise" button. For Saturn, I'm around 0.20 to 0.30.
9. Then I go back to sliders 1 thru 3 and make some further adjustments.
10.Press "Do All" button, then "save." At this point, it is a FIT. Since I use monochrome and filters, I have to do this for each filter.
11.The FITs are combined in AstraImage to give me the color image. I make adjustments in "Relative intensity" for each filter, and save as a TIF.
12.Sometimes, while in AstraImage, I will run deconvolution...Lucy Richardson decon or Maximum Entropy. This is optional, sharpens more; but can look noisy if you are not careful.
13.I take the TIF to Photoshop 5 and work on color, brightness, contrast, noise reduction techniques, crop, alter image size, add text...whatever for the final.
14.Compare with previous images, images of others, and go back and re-do the unsatisfactory portions.
15.Share with friends.

I hope this helps. I'm interested in what you post when you get a chance, Fred. Thanks.

Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ToxMan
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5844585 - 05/06/13 10:33 PM

PS. I am working thru WinJUPOS tutorial and would like to incorporate it in the routine. For now, I shoot my each filter AVI, IR, R, G, B, in under six minutes total, since I'm not de-rotating with WinJUPOS yet. If I can get it set up right, I'll switch over to Firecapture. I think I can make the focus, filter and camera setting changes quicker, leaving me some more time to capture actual data in the 6 minutes. I'm considering LuCam Recorder instead. But, I want to "talk" with someone using it, first.

Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JoeR
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Columbus, OH
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5845143 - 05/07/13 09:09 AM

I have a lot of problems with IC Capture. The AVI videos created are not readable. For some reason they are also being distorted at 720 x 480 instead of 640 x 480. Plus when I try to capture with the 742 filter it runs really slow, taking 5 minutes just to capture 1000 frames. The AVIs end up having to be converted twice which uses a TON of memory, averaging 5GB per video. This is not good as I have to use a Mac in Boot Camp and 90% of the disk space is used up by the OS. Also AutoStakkert 2 doesn't work for me it always gives me error messages. Registax 6 is also no good the wavelets create a crackle effect on the planet image. So the only thing that is relable for me is the legacy Registax 5, which is probably why my images never look very good.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
MvZ
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 04/03/07

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: JoeR]
      #5845798 - 05/07/13 02:37 PM

> Also AutoStakkert 2 doesn't work for me it always gives me error messages.

Joe, I'd be more than happy to help you out with AS!2. Could you provide me with some more details (per email perhaps).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fogboundturtle
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn *DELETED* new [Re: ToxMan]
      #5846079 - 05/07/13 04:54 PM

Post deleted by Fogboundturtle

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Fogboundturtle
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5846969 - 05/08/13 12:43 AM Attachment (9 downloads)

This is the end result using your method.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ToxMan
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Re: Hard time with processing Saturn new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5847402 - 05/08/13 09:40 AM

It looks like the image is sharper, a little more detail is visible and the Seeliger effect is more apparent. I think f20 will get you there. Thanks for posting.

Paul


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Extra information
4 registered and 14 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  TG, Starman81, bilgebay, WOBentley 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 719

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics