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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
My M63 new
      #5843420 - 05/06/13 12:11 PM

Conditions were nearly perfect for me, and I thought the pictures themselves turned out pretty well, my editing on the other hand almost makes me want to give up this hobby. I've tried for days in PI and just can't seem to get a handle on it. I don't exactly know why either, I've done other work in PI that I thought looked pretty descent, but my pictures from this last Friday and Saturday night look like complete garbage. Not happy with this in the least bit, but I was hoping by posting someone might have a clue as to where I'm going wrong.

I guess one of my main issues is how to properly darken the background of an image, I just can't seem to figure it out, well, I did, but clearly not the correct way IMO. Also, my stars look like *BLEEP*, although they were nice and pinpoint in my individual frames.



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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5843457 - 05/06/13 12:31 PM

Here is a dropbox download link to my DSS autosave, straight out of DSS with no modification or calibration:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84570659/Astropics/m63Autosave.tif


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5843545 - 05/06/13 01:06 PM

I'll have a look now

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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5843601 - 05/06/13 01:32 PM

I cannot download via dropbox...dunno why.
Can you use another file sharing?


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nwinston
sage
*****

Reged: 02/10/10

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5844190 - 05/06/13 06:44 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

I think that your problem with the stars lies in the processing. Like you said, I think that the strange star problem occurred when you tried to darken the background.

I gave the image a try at processing, and your data looks good. Here's my attempt at processing your image with Photoshop CS5.

Here's a link to the full size JPEG.

Edited by nwinston (05/06/13 06:45 PM)


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: nwinston]
      #5844194 - 05/06/13 06:45 PM

How did you download it from dropbox?

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nwinston
sage
*****

Reged: 02/10/10

Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: My M63 [Re: rob77]
      #5844200 - 05/06/13 06:47 PM

I clicked the dropbox link and the file began to download automatically. What browser are you using?

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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: nwinston]
      #5844251 - 05/06/13 07:22 PM

Chrome: it appears the quick time icon in the centre of the page and nothing happens . Same thing with Mozilla...
I'll try to disinstall QT...


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5844309 - 05/06/13 07:45 PM

Ok now it is downloading. Just had to remove QT

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bluedandelion
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: Hazy Hollow, Western WA
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5844526 - 05/06/13 10:06 PM

Darkening the sky background is a personal preference. Some folks like it dark others like it lighter. You shouldn't clip it though.

Are you using a starmask to protect your stars as you stretch the histogram or use other tools like HDR compression, or contrast enhancement? Until I learned to do this my stars were messed up too - halos sometimes and doughnuts at other times.

Ajay


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5844573 - 05/06/13 10:27 PM

I made a very quick elaboration.
It is on my working area in astrobin.
Here: http://www.astrobin.com/41159/

Your elaboration process must be reviewed, I think.

Regards,
Roberto


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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5844830 - 05/07/13 01:38 AM

I am using a starmask when doing the HDR tools and Contrast adjustment, however my *BLEEP* looking stars, I think, occured from AtrousWaveletTransformation. Perhaps I will re-do my processing leaving this out and just doing NR via ACDNR and see what happens.

Those colors are amazing Rob, I dunno how you managed to pull those out, as mine was at full +10 saturation boost and I could not even see those vivid of colors. Perhaps I had bad color calibration? I'm not really sure how to do color calibration via any other means then the PI "Galaxy Method" which I would guess most know what that process is. Perhaps I don't need to do color calibration beyond using the DBE tool which, as I understand, does a pretty descent calibration on its own? Just not sure.

Also Rob, you don't need to uninstall QT. Just right click the link, save target as, and save it. Should work that way I believe.

Edited by Sean13 (05/07/13 02:27 AM)


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5845045 - 05/07/13 07:52 AM

Hi Sean,
the steps that I basically used are the following [in PixInsight]:
[-] Linearity [-]
1.
Cropped since your flat files were not so good.
Have a look at here: http://postimg.org/image/4j79zw0tv/
2.
DBE for reducing some gradients
3.
Background Neutralization
4.
Color Calibration

[-] Non Linearity [-]
5.
Creation of the mask on the galaxy and mask on the stars
6.
Pixel Math to create a combo mask --> mask galaxy | mask stars
7.
7.1 Apply the combo mask with galaxy and stars blocked.
7.2 SCNR on the green channel (strength: 1.0)
8.
8.1 Apply the combo mask with the background blocked.
8.2 Extract the lightness of the image
8.3 LRGB combination [de-checking R-G-B and select for L the lightness of point 7.2] with saturation around 0.2
9.
Local Histogram Equalization

I think that's all.
Regards,
Roberto


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5845051 - 05/07/13 08:02 AM

I give you a - strictly personal - hint: try to use as less as possible the noise reduction (ACDNR or ATrous or whatever).
I do not like at all the effect it comes out; I mean, not in PixInsight specifically, but in all the tools.
I find that noise reduction gives to the image an innaturale appearance.
It is preferrable, for my POV, to increase the integration frame set.

Regards,
Roberto


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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5845174 - 05/07/13 09:36 AM

Thanks for the hints. I agree about NR, I'm not a big fan of it either.

My flats I thought were just about as good as you can get, the problem however is my scope is a 6" SCT and I'm shooting with a large DSLR sensor, so the vignetting can't really be helped, I just have to crop, or so I thought. Is this really the case, or am I truly shooting bad flats? From the looks of it my flats look pretty similar to examples posted by other people.


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rob77
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: Belo Horizonte (Brazil) and Cu...
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5845180 - 05/07/13 09:39 AM

Could you post a RAW flat here?

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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: My M63 new [Re: rob77]
      #5845366 - 05/07/13 11:33 AM

Here is the dropbox link to a RAW flat from the M63 photo:

http://db.tt/YY71PUqz

I just use the laptop screen in front of the scope method and the AV/Flat setting in Backyard EOS to do my flats. I thought they looked pretty normal considering the small scope and large camera sensor. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Edited by Sean13 (05/07/13 12:28 PM)


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Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5845451 - 05/07/13 12:33 PM

I now see that the reason I was over-darkening my background was because I didn't use the SCNR tool to remove the color, which led me to over-darken to get rid of it instead.

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Nils_Lars
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/04/08

Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5845556 - 05/07/13 01:13 PM

A good shot of the Sunflower, processing is always a trick.

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bluedandelion
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/17/07

Loc: Hazy Hollow, Western WA
Re: My M63 new [Re: Sean13]
      #5847005 - 05/08/13 01:25 AM

Quote:

I am using a starmask when doing the HDR tools and Contrast adjustment, however my *BLEEP* looking stars, I think, occured from AtrousWaveletTransformation. Perhaps I will re-do my processing leaving this out and just doing NR via ACDNR and see what happens.





I prefer Atrous Wavelet Transformation because you hit he noise before you stretch. A few things that have worked for me:
* Apply noise correction to just two layers - i.e. at the two smallest scales.
* Since you are correcting the background, protect the high signal region with a lightness mask.
* Another trick is to reduce star size via Morphological Transform before stretching. This keeps down star bloat in later steps particularly after stretching.

Have fun.

Ajay


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