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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? *DELETED* [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5850489 - 05/09/13 05:10 PM

Post deleted by Scott in NC

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5850604 - 05/09/13 06:23 PM

Being a fan is not a pejorative.

I've owned several Vixen LVWs, Pentax XWs, Panoptics, Naglers, Ethos, Meade UWAs, Celestron Axiom LXs, etc, etc. over the years.
I've also had opportunity to use the ES 68s, 82s, 100s, and 120 in a variety of scopes. And the WO UWANs, and several other companies' ultrawide offerings.

And eyepieces from many other companies. Though I've only owned a little over 300 eyepieces, I've used, at one time or another, almost that many more from other companies.

And I, too, am a TeleVue fan.
Seriously, if some other company makes a better eyepiece in the apparent fields I prefer, I'll buy it.

That does not mean no other company makes a good eyepiece. Far from it, because there are a lot of nice eyepieces out there. And I'm glad there are. That there are a lot fewer of them now than 4 years ago is a sign of the times.

But I've come to rely on TeleVue for unsurpassed quality and performance.
And, at least in ultra-wide fields, I have not seen their equals (I admit, I have not used the Nikon NAV-HW eyepieces).

So I can say I am a fan. And I am a fan of some other companies, too. Their eyepieces don't fit my requirements, but that's OK. If I could say one thing based upon my experience it would be that if your only experience with eyepieces was with TeleVues, you haven't missed much.


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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/18/05

Loc: NorCal
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Damo636]
      #5850749 - 05/09/13 07:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Thats why I sold the few Delos I had, blatant clones of the XW
I'll get my coat




I'm sorry...but the Delos are NOT clones of the XWs...I know as I took my 6mm apart...and it is not even CLOSE to the XW. BTW, the Delos SMOKES the XW on deep sky objects...as the Delos already beats the Ethos...and the Ethos and XW are about the same, giving the Ethos the slightest edge.

Several other very experienced observed confirmed it with a couple large telescopes, not dinky little 6" apos.






My post was meant to be very much "tongue in cheek" Alvin, I'm fully aware they aren't clones
I've owned the 6, 10 & most recently the14 Delos, and would agree with you, they are excellent eyepieces. I still prefer the XW's at the
sharp end though...




Ah. Sorry.


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5850902 - 05/09/13 08:46 PM

Quote:

Regarding the purchase of the 21mm Ethos, at this time, it's just not of interest. I am not one of those guys who has to have the latest and greatest eyepiece... I have all the equipment I need. Jon Isaacs




I was there too for about five years. Then the Delos came out, and I prefer them over the Radian, so I sold my Radians and replaced them with Delos equivalents. Then, I paid attention to some postings listing people's favorite eyepieces. The Pentax 5XO, 8 Brandon, TMB supermonos, ZAOs, Pentax Extra Wides, and more recently, the Ethos and Delos eyepieces. I had already ruled out the Ethos because of price, and that 100 AFOV was overkill. I picked up a used 5XO and 8 Brandon, and now realize why so many people love them. I have a TMB supermono on order and picked up a 9 HuTech. In short, I see why people like the small glass eyepieces. They fit in nicely with my other eyepieces.

However, I agree that there is a point where we should be satisfied with what we have. I also do not have to own the latest and greatest. I really do think I am through--for another several years.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5851032 - 05/09/13 10:14 PM

Quote:


As for the Meade/Nagler debate, my own experience at the time (late 1980's) was that almost every observer that I knew, or knew of, who owned a Nagler 13mm or 9mm proceeded to sell them off in favor of the Meade 14mm or 8.8mm UWA, once they viewed through them; notice that I wrote "observer", not "eyepiece collector" . I myself found them to be a superior design, although admittedly not by much.




I own the 14mm UWA which many believe is the best of the lot, I have owned the others excepting the 8.8mm, they are good eyepieces.. I also own the 12mm and 16mm Type 2 Naglers. The 14mm UWA is a wonderful eyepiece but for what ever reasons, I find myself using the Naglers while the UWAs sit in it's case.

It worth noting that the 9mm and the 13mm were the original type 1 Naglers. Type 1's showed "spherical aberration of the exit pupil." The Meade UWAs addressed this problem as did the type 2 Naglers so it was indeed the type 1 Naglers that were replaced.

Spherical aberration of the exit pupil

Jon


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JustaBoy
Post Laureate
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Reged: 06/19/12

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? *DELETED* new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6132374 - 10/12/13 01:44 AM

Post deleted by JustaBoy

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ManuelJ
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/19/05

Loc: Madrid, Spain
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: JustaBoy]
      #6132455 - 10/12/13 04:09 AM

Try 20 ES 100 and 21mm Ethos in a fast F/5 refractor.

Next action: go to the bank to pay the 21 Ethos.



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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #6132731 - 10/12/13 10:20 AM

Quote:

Why is the 21mm Tele Vue so expensive?



Just price a Nikon Nav HW 17mm and it makes the Televue look cheap!
web page
Rex


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star drop
contra contrail
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: Jarrod]
      #6132893 - 10/12/13 11:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I don't think that TeleVue designed the Nagler with the fast Dob in mind. Maybe someone who knows Uncle Al could shed some light on this.




Or we could read Mr. Nagler's own comments in the 1988 patent:

"The lens data set forth in the following tables are, in all cases, for eyepieces having a 10 mm. focal length and an 80 to 90 degree field of view. All are well corrected for telecentric input beams as fast as f/4."

What f/4 telescopes existed in 1988? It seems those are what they had in mind.



There were lots of Astroscans.


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esd726
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 09/30/04

Loc: Rochester, IN
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: russell23]
      #6132920 - 10/12/13 11:58 AM

Quote:


I just don't see the point in anyone claiming some moral high ground over eyepiece purchases.




I think a lot of it is most people can't afford to spend that much on an eyepiece (even though they probably would if they could.) It's not like ES are SUPER cheap either, not like they are getting something at Dollar General instead of Saks. I have had most of the TV line of eyepieces (still have the 1st one I ever bought-13 T6) but currently finances dictate that if I want "high end" eyepieces I buy ES. I also like the way they actually look though too. If TV and ES sold for the same price it would be interesting to see what would happen. I would say at first TV would dominate (sort of like- Hey this Lamborghini costs as much as this 'Vette now-maybe not BEST analogy ) but after awhile I wonder if it would start to even out a little If $400 was the "same" to me as $100 what would I have bought. (I must be more tired than I thought-thinking to odd .)


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: esd726]
      #6133017 - 10/12/13 12:45 PM

I am in the market for some new, or "new-to-me" EPs
I have plowed through this entire thread.

Learned some EP history but also the overwhelming feeling that nationalism, elitism and ego are certainly at play here.

I have no argument with that. What is the entire "high-end" wristwatch industry based on if not ego?

While I personally would not buy a Rolex even if I were a billionaire, I am considering a 41mm Pan, even though I am not a billionaire!

Not "decided." Still considering though.

My intellect says the 40mm ES is a far more rational decision! "90%(insert some arbitary figure) of the "bang" for about half the number of bucks.

While I appreciate the quality, the history and "pedigree" of TV products, I don't feel obligated to the company by any "made here" (which they ain't!) sentiment.

If I can find a used 41mm Pan at an attractive price, I'll buy it. If I can't . . . and paying full retail, plus taxes is the only route to one . . . the ES 40mm will be the one chosen. The cost of buying these new, in my section of Canada is $288 vs $621 CDN.

My feelings about TV EPs:
1/ Great, "jewel-like" fit and finish.
2/ Very high resale value . . . which is bad for me!


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kkokkolisModerator
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/23/09

Loc: Piraeus, Greece
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: esd726]
      #6133022 - 10/12/13 12:47 PM

Quote:

We live in a fee market...



You probably meant a free market, but I hope I would be living in a flea market and find an Ethos there.
ES100 20 is more expensive than the others (although not as much) and it has the same dimensions with the 14mm. The same happens with the biggest Naglers and UWA's. Even Hyperion Aspheric 36 costs more than the 31 although the later is considered better. There are some reasons and glass is expensive material, not to mention coatings and manufacture. Big Svarofski items cost more than smaller, bigger APOs cost more than the smaller ones, bigger Costa Boda vases the same, and so on. But with TV, even so-so items cost much, such as the Ethos soft case (got it), the 24-8 zoom (worse than Baader's) and small, non optical accessories. It might be the cost of keeping a small, specialized company alive, the cost of green paint or other things I can't think of.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: kkokkolis]
      #6133045 - 10/12/13 12:59 PM

This is to the OP right from the original topic:

Doesn't matter because you can buy three used ES eyepieces for the price of one TV, or two brand new ES eyepieces for the price of one TV, depending on the focal length desired.

At the darker spot I go to, I looked through a 21mm TV Ethos and also a 20mm Explore Scientific. The differences were not night and day. ES has raised the bar by having eyepieces that are affordable for people who want them and get 90% the same effect. Only thing TV has over ES for the 100 degree series is longer eye relief, and a tad better sharpness towards the edges. Not a whole lot of difference to justify the higher cost IMO. You won't see me EVER buying an Ethos eyepiece at those prices. NO THANKS.

You can call ES, (like I have done), and get a representative on the phone right away, just like you can at TV and get excellent customer service to boot!

WAY TO GO EXPLORE SCIENTIFIC

PS: The 5.5mm ES 100 will be an excellent addition to the others and it shouldn't be too long before it comes out.


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a__l
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/24/07

Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: kkokkolis]
      #6133050 - 10/12/13 01:03 PM

Buying ES you will always be tormented by doubts.
What sells better eyepieces ...


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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: dawziecat]
      #6133134 - 10/12/13 01:55 PM

Terry,
Just my opinion, but if your longest FL scope is the Tak TOA150 at 1100 mm Fl? then I think the 40mm eyepiece is too long for good views. I had a 40mm Meade 40mm series 4000 SWA (Japan) and in my Tak's FS128 and FS102. Fl's of 1040 and 820mm the 40mm was very underwhelming. A 32mm SWA was more appropriate to both focal lengths. Perhaps a Panoptic 27mm or Nagler 26 or 31mm would suit your scopes better. Just my two cents ( If it were me, I would go with either the Pan 27 or Nagler 26, both great eyepieces).
Rex


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: tomcody]
      #6133207 - 10/12/13 02:38 PM

Quote:

Buying ES you will always be tormented by doubts.
What sells better eyepieces ...




Please....give it a rest already. Sheesh.



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The Ardent
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: a__l]
      #6133251 - 10/12/13 03:12 PM

When I go grocery shopping I buy generic or store brand. When I buy eyepieces its Televue. When it comes to observing I wont compromise.

I tried the 13 Ethos in 2007 when it first came out. I didn't like it. Just didn't "fit" me.
I bought the 21 Ethos. I didn't like it and sold it.
I borrowed a 10 Ethos at the star party last week and loved it. You never know until you try.
I spent an hour using Rob Teeter's 20" f/3.5.
As a result I bought a Paracorr 2 from Teeter Telescopes.

Quote:

Buying ES you will always be tormented by doubts.
What sells better eyepieces ...




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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: GeneT]
      #6133478 - 10/12/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

A lot of people love these eyepieces and are willing to pay the price. The Ethos pushed the envelope when they first came out. I don't know if there was any R&D costs to recoup. TeleVue has extremely high quality control standards, plus the complexity of the Ethos are some of the factors that drove up the price. I would pay the price--except I prefer Naglers,Delos and Pentax Extra Wide eyepieces. Also, they are priced considerably less.




Since my original post, I bought a 13 Ethos. I was skeptical of the Ethos at the time, and thought I probably would sell it. I was not happy with my 12 Nagler and 14 Delos, so decided to try the Ethos. I was amazed with the views the 13 Ethos gave. I then decided to try the 21. Same story. So I sold my 31, 22, 12 Naglers and 14 Delos. The 13 and 21 Ethos replaced those eyepieces. I went on to purchase the 8, 6 an 4.7 Ethos eyepieces.

To the poster's question--why are the TV Ethos so expensive? Others have posted a variety of reasons. Let me just say that in my opinion, they are worth the money.


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dawziecat
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: Rural Nova Scotia
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: tomcody]
      #6133634 - 10/12/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

Terry,
. . . if your longest FL scope is the Tak TOA150 at 1100 mm Fl? then I think the 40mm eyepiece is too long for good views. Perhaps a Panoptic 27mm or Nagler 26 or 31mm would suit your scopes better.
Rex




Thanks, Rex. I am trying to get a 27mm Pan from Amart now, without success I have to add. I do like my wide views and have a C11 with a longer FL to feed too.

Even a 21mm Ethos is of interest . . . nah! I just don't really do enough visual to justify it!

Edited by dawziecat (10/12/13 08:05 PM)


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schang
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/24/13

Loc: columbia, sc
Re: Why is the 21mm Tele Vue Ethos so expensive? new [Re: a__l]
      #6133710 - 10/12/13 07:34 PM

How about tormented by Plossls ? Nah, not really. Those are all I have for now and serve me fine so far. An ES would be an upgrade to me, but not needed, let alone a Nagler. Why don't I buy them, you may ask? Because I do not "NEED" them. I am satisfied with what I have, a "low road" equipment that provides me the opportunity to get into this hobby. I could have spent thousands more for the "high road" stuff, but this is not me. Enjoy the sky and clear skies to y'all.

Edited by schang (10/13/13 07:12 AM)


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