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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Erik Bakker
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/10/06

Loc: The Netherlands, Europe
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850273 - 05/09/13 03:23 PM

The answer to that question is very personal. Some enjoy the Naglers most, others the Ethoi. And this thread provides ample proof for that

What scope would you use these eyepieces in? And for which objects under what sky conditions?

For medium to high magnifications, to see the maximum lunar and planetary detail, 2 eyepieces and a binoviewer work far better than any 1 eyepiece. That requires sets of 2 eyepieces in the 25-16mm range for my scopes. That leaves only one set of eyepieces available from the Nagler/Ethos series: the 16mm T 5 Nagler. Other TV's that work very well in a bino are the 19mm and 24mm Pan.

For low magnifications, maximum field of view and brightness, eyepieces with longish focal lengths used with 1 eye work best for me. In my scopes that means 20mm and longer focal lengths. The 21mm Ethos could do very well if you don't need lots of eye relief. Or the 20mm T5 Nagler. For more eye relief, the 22mm Nagler T4 is superb. For even lower magnifications, the 26 T5 and 31 T5 Naglers are both great eyepieces.

Goot luck with your choice!


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5850280 - 05/09/13 03:28 PM

EdgeHD 800...

I'm considering the following:

31mm Nagler
10, 14mm Delos
21mm Ethos
and PM 2x


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Starman81
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/06/08

Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Mike B]
      #5850341 - 05/09/13 03:55 PM

Quote:

A used Ethos & good Barlow could net ya, effectively, TWO Ethoi!

I have such an arrangement... a 13E, and actually TWO excellent Barlows- an AP 1.6x Barcon, plus an older UniversityOptics 2" 2x long-fellow... so essentially have three excellent 100* FLs to work with!

13mm..... ~9mm..... ~6mm
All acquired "used" for probably near your budget number.





I like this suggestion and I can recommend it because it is what I have . However, instead of the AP Barcon I have the Antares 1.6x and for the 2x, I have the GSO ED 2x. They both play well with the 13 Ethos have the added benefit of slightly increasing the eye relief a bit.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Starman81]
      #5850363 - 05/09/13 04:07 PM

Nada.

Go Pentax XW baby


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skullpin
sage
*****

Reged: 03/13/09

Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5850519 - 05/09/13 05:33 PM

Docter 12.5mm. Better than Nagler T4 field of view, same generous eye relief, Ethos quality view.

Keith


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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850552 - 05/09/13 05:57 PM

Quote:

31mm Nagler
10, 14mm Delos #1
21mm Ethos #2
and PM 2x #3




Having had an F10 SCT, i found ~15mm a high-traffic FL! ~20mm was another... almost hate to pick between the two... would depend on your observing tastes for magnification, object, typical conditions, etc.

10mm might see less use, due to magnification rendered... perhaps better to Barlow the 14mm (@~1.6x) or 21mm (@~2x) to hit that range?

The 21E offers ~83% the TFoV of the 31-Nagler, so that too depends on your perceived need/preference for a max. FoV.

A heckuva line-up, no question, but all together it smokes your budget by quite a stretch, so sneak into it logically & with perseverance!


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: skullpin]
      #5850592 - 05/09/13 06:17 PM

What's doctor 12.5?

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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850606 - 05/09/13 06:24 PM

Here.

.... and there




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tonyt
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/02/09

Loc: Australia
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Mike B]
      #5850690 - 05/09/13 07:04 PM

I wouldn't buy new Ethos until a 20%-off sale comes along. Some Televue eyepieces can be substituted with Explore Scientific that have equal performance eg. ES30mm vs Nagler 31 (I've owned both) and from reports the ES20mm 100 degree is excellent.

Delos are more affordable although a Pentax XW10mm is less again.

You might also consider a set of William Optics binoviewers in the mix - a lot of fun for low cost.


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: tonyt]
      #5850708 - 05/09/13 07:11 PM

Ugh, when will that come along I missed the boat last fall

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Mike B
Starstruck
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Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850716 - 05/09/13 07:16 PM

Quote:

Ugh, when will that come along



I dunno... let me see, this is the 21st century, right?




In actuality, the best TeleVue sale, featuring about 20% off, is hap'nin' every day... on the used market.

But from someone having good ratings, LOTS of 'em, and you should be fine. 'Tis the only way i've bought an EP in quite a long time- two Ethos, many Naglers, several Barlows.... i just don't see payin' full retail with used deals around so good!


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Achernar
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850719 - 05/09/13 07:17 PM

My vote would be for two Naglers....... an 82 degree apparent field of view truly is a spacewalk experience.

Taras


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5850748 - 05/09/13 07:30 PM

A couple of questions: 1) what kind of telescope do you have? 2) what is the order of importance of the objects you like to view? 3) is eye relief important to you, i.e. do you like to view while wearing glasses? 4) have you viewed through both Naglers and Ethos eyepieces, and if so, is the super wide angel of 100 AFOV important to you?

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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: GeneT]
      #5850836 - 05/09/13 08:01 PM

I bought both my 6mm Radian and my 2X Powermate used and both are excellent! I see that people who buy these things generally take good care of them.

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MRNUTTY
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: Mendon, MA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Mike B]
      #5850874 - 05/09/13 08:19 PM

I'm with Mark on choosing the used market. Most of my TV's were bought used, or on sale last year. The most expensive one's I bought on sale for the warrantee. With the lesser expensive Type 6's I can afford the risk of replacing them.


Oh yeah, four T6's naglers at $220 each costs you $880 :-) what could be better!?

Edited by MRNUTTY (05/09/13 08:21 PM)


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: WesC]
      #5850882 - 05/09/13 08:23 PM

GeneT: EdgeHD 800 is what I am aiming for. DSO is most important, eye relief is great and encouraged, I haven't found anyone with actual TV pieces except for plossls... I think they're afraid to take 'em out.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: FishInPercolator]
      #5851047 - 05/09/13 10:21 PM

Quote:

GeneT: EdgeHD 800 is what I am aiming for. DSO is most important, eye relief is great and encouraged, I haven't found anyone with actual TV pieces except for plossls... I think they're afraid to take 'em out.




The 8 inch has a focal ratio of F/10. At F/10, there are a lot of eyepieces with usefully wide fields of view that do not require Ethos or Nagler level of off-axis correction to provide quite wonderful views.

If your scope were an F/5 refractor or Newtonian, then Naglers and Ethos's make a lot of sense but they do represent a major investment..

What other eyepieces do you have, what has been your experience with less expensive wide field eyepieces?

Jon


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
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Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5851131 - 05/09/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

The 8 inch has a focal ratio of F/10. At F/10, there are a lot of eyepieces with usefully wide fields of view that do not require Ethos or Nagler level of off-axis correction to provide quite wonderful views.




Indeed. In the last couple of days over on the 'mart someone was selling a A. Jaegers surplus tank periscope eyepiece aka 38 mm erfle for $39. I was tempted to grab it myself. They're so big they need a step down adapter for a 2" focuser.

I used to use one of these in my f/9 Newtonian and it was actually a decent eyepiece (at that focal ratio). As my budget allowed for eyepiece upgrades I found the 35 Panoptic was better, but the 38 Erfle would be a steal for someone starting their eyepiece collection.


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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
*****

Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5851146 - 05/09/13 11:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

GeneT: EdgeHD 800 is what I am aiming for. DSO is most important, eye relief is great and encouraged, I haven't found anyone with actual TV pieces except for plossls... I think they're afraid to take 'em out.




The 8 inch has a focal ratio of F/10. At F/10, there are a lot of eyepieces with usefully wide fields of view that do not require Ethos or Nagler level of off-axis correction to provide quite wonderful views.

If your scope were an F/5 refractor or Newtonian, then Naglers and Ethos's make a lot of sense but they do represent a major investment..

What other eyepieces do you have, what has been your experience with less expensive wide field eyepieces?

Jon




Quite right. But the C8 benefits not only with sharper edges on the premium EP's, on-axis presentation is also better on the eyes, the clarity is nuanced immediately. The slow F/10 8" SCT scope is not a reason not to get top EP's, it will benefit much from premium EP's, going by experience with it, and not just at the edges. Just 2 cents of course, thanks.

Best,


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: 2 Naglers or 1 Ethos? How would you spend your ... new [Re: ibase]
      #5851171 - 05/09/13 11:53 PM

Quote:

Quite right. But the C8 benefits not only with sharper edges on the premium EP's, on-axis presentation is also better on the eyes, the clarity is nuanced immediately. The slow F/10 8" SCT scope is not a reason not to get top EP's, it will benefit much from premium EP's, going by experience with it, and not just at the edges. Just 2 cents of course, thanks.

Best,




Well...

There are pluses and minuses to eyepieces like the Naglers. In a fast scope their ability to provide reasonably round, tight stars near the edge of the field of view, makes them valuable for the observer with fast focal ratio telescopes. The scopes I use most are all between F/4 and F/5 and the Naglers are great tools in those scopes.

But at the slower focal ratios, I am not so sure that all that monkey motion bending the light around is such an advantage. In a slower scope, there is something to the "less glass" is better approach, particularly when in terms of center of the field sharpness. An Erfle derivative in an F/13 refractor has a purity that comes from the gentle bending of the light.

To my mind the term "premium eyepiece" has different meanings when applied to different focal ratios because the various parameters have different importances.

And certainly, an F/10 scope just does not require an eyepiece with near perfect edge correction at F/4 to provide near perfect views. Regardless of the decision made, it's worth thinking about.

Jon


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