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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5853457 - 05/11/13 09:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

That's because he's guiding with 50/250 scope, you have to convert that to imaging FL. It doesn't say too much about quality of guiding...




Really....??




Yes.
If you try to guide with OAG you'll notice that PHD graph is not so nice but stars will be tighter...


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AstroWave77
newbie


Reged: 04/19/11

Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5853465 - 05/11/13 09:50 AM

Hi:
Further to my inquiry of yesterday about HEQ5Pro vs ZEQ25 I make the following comment.
IOPTRON offers a choice of a 5Kg. tripod and a 8Kg. one. I think the heavier 8Kg. one is to compensate for the lighter mount when using a larger telescope. If so, then the lighter mount argument becomes irrelevant, doesn't it?
Regards,
AstroWave77


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: AstroWave77]
      #5853481 - 05/11/13 09:58 AM

Quote:

Yes.
If you try to guide with OAG you'll notice that PHD graph is not so nice but stars will be tighter...




Ah...I agree with you, OAG is much better for accurate tracking/guiding, since the guider and imaging camera are using the same fov.

I don't have a Off Axis Guider, so I have to make do with the little 50mm Borg and Lodestar. But even with that combination, the stars are pretty tight...:) Here's 3 hrs of fine minute exposures, not one sub lost due to trailing, with a 90mm Stellarvue on the ZEQ25:


NGC 7023 the Iris Nebula 3hrs.. by Astronewb2011, on Flickr

If you look at the larger resolution images, you can see the quality of the stars, but excuse my processing...:)

Best,

paul


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: AstroWave77]
      #5853498 - 05/11/13 10:08 AM

Quote:

Hi:
Further to my inquiry of yesterday about HEQ5Pro vs ZEQ25 I make the following comment.
IOPTRON offers a choice of a 5Kg. tripod and a 8Kg. one. I think the heavier 8Kg. one is to compensate for the lighter mount when using a larger telescope. If so, then the lighter mount argument becomes irrelevant, doesn't it?
Regards,
AstroWave77




Hi, just for reference, I do all my imaging off the 1.5" tripod. The 2" tripod would be overkill, and would definitely detract from the portability of the mount.

But, if you think you need the extra heft of the 2" tripod, then I guess psychologically, it's the best choice.

Regards,

Paul


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5853517 - 05/11/13 10:20 AM

Paul,

I think people are forgetting that (with the polar scope) this is a $850 mount. I have one of the first iEQ30's (more bucks) and if I had to buy a mount right now for what I do, I'd get the ZEQ25 and save money and get equally nice stars. It's an excellent mount from everything you've shown and said, with an excellent polar scope, bells, whistles and still only $850. That's pretty good to me.

I'm waiting for the iEQ45 version of the Z (whatever weight class it ends up being) with the encoders. I've been so happy with my mount and the iOptron customer service, that I'd be willing to give that a try.

If I were going all-out, I'd get an ASA mount...but then I'd also get an observatory. On the Big Island, up near the summit. If one is going to really invest, might as well go whole-hog.

I've toyed with getting a future Mach 1 (the Ferrari of small portable mounts), but I'd like to try the bigger, encoder'd Z. If this ZEQ25 is any indication, should be really great bang-for-the-buck.

Paul


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Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5853558 - 05/11/13 10:55 AM

Astronewb,

He's right about it being a smoother curve with a simpler a guider and that you could really figure out your PE (guided and unguided) using a program like PEMPRO.

No biggie though; the smooth graph does mean that PHD wasn't having any problems with your mount. For instance, before the new firmware, many CGEMs demonstrated a 'sawtooth' pattern in the declination axis. So, you can see that the graph can tell you something.

I think it's pretty amazing myself. Looks like you got a good copy of it!

Chris


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5853969 - 05/11/13 03:00 PM

Quote:

He's right about it being a smoother curve with a simpler a guider and that you could really figure out your PE (guided and unguided) using a program like PEMPRO.




I did convert the guiding graph using the PHD log file in PecPrep, this is the result (not compensated for DEC):


PecPrep 6 May 2013 ZEQ25 by Astronewb2011, on Flickr

Some night when I'm not after a dso, I should turn off PHD guiding and run a 30 minute log file to see what the mount's PE looks like.

CLear skies,

Paul


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Footbag
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5854054 - 05/11/13 04:01 PM

I'm not sure if I'm applying this correctly, but I think we can just take the Borg 50mm and Lodestar pixel scale to get 6.75 arcsec/pixel. Then multiply that by your measured PE of ~2, and we'll get a PE of 13.5.

Hey, smarter people... Did I do that right?

Either way, the mount is a performer at a good price. You don't need to look at a graph to see whether your stars look good. Now someone just has to see how far it can be pushed.

EDIT: BTW Great Iris nebula! My favorite target!

Edited by Footbag (05/11/13 04:43 PM)


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dennilfloss
sage


Reged: 01/06/13

Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5854377 - 05/11/13 08:44 PM

Impressive tracking. There's probably some software you can use to demotion-blur those stars. or just use Photoshop.

http://www.ehow.com/how_6954394_remove-motion-blur-photoshop.html

Edit: just gave it a quick go with Focus Magic (I forgot this can also do motion deblur). Excuse my bad eyesight.

http://i.imgur.com/lRJQIhw.jpg



Edited by dennilfloss (05/11/13 10:50 PM)


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vdb
sage


Reged: 12/08/09

Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5854745 - 05/12/13 02:08 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure if I'm applying this correctly, but I think we can just take the Borg 50mm and Lodestar pixel scale to get 6.75 arcsec/pixel. Then multiply that by your measured PE of ~2, and we'll get a PE of 13.5.

Hey, smarter people... Did I do that right?






Don't think so, this is guided en PecPrep asks pixel size and focal length, so this is the real error and means you have 2 arcsec P-P ...
Side remark, the seeing is in there as well ...


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: vdb]
      #5855048 - 05/12/13 09:05 AM

Quote:

Edit: just gave it a quick go with Focus Magic (I forgot this can also do motion deblur). Excuse my bad eyesight.

http://i.imgur.com/lRJQIhw.jpg




Wow...that worked great, and so much easier than using layer masks to do it? With a flat applied to get rid of the reducer vignetting, that would be a great single exposure of M101. Going to look at 'Focus Magic' real quick...lol.

Thanks for showing me that, all the best,

Paul


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Footbag
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: vdb]
      #5855083 - 05/12/13 09:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not sure if I'm applying this correctly, but I think we can just take the Borg 50mm and Lodestar pixel scale to get 6.75 arcsec/pixel. Then multiply that by your measured PE of ~2, and we'll get a PE of 13.5.

Hey, smarter people... Did I do that right?






Don't think so, this is guided en PecPrep asks pixel size and focal length, so this is the real error and means you have 2 arcsec P-P ...
Side remark, the seeing is in there as well ...




Oh. If you enter your FL and pixel size then it already calculates that. I was assuming a default of 1arcsec/pixel. But is 2arcsecs peak to peak really possible? That's usually $10k mount territory.

One thing to consider is that you should be aquiring the PEC curve at a very long FL. I seem to remember barlowing my cpc-800 to get my PE.


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Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5855101 - 05/12/13 09:37 AM

Adam,

You're right about the long focal length too. But, you have to take into account the mount. The RC6 that he's using probably is about as close to the max weight of the mount as it can handle realistically anyways. Plus, that's guided. So, 2" PE is what you 'should' get it to (or smaller).

Knez, didn't realize you shouldn't have a normal graph with an OAG. Good to know.


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Footbag
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5855136 - 05/12/13 10:11 AM

Quote:

Adam,

You're right about the long focal length too. But, you have to take into account the mount. The RC6 that he's using probably is about as close to the max weight of the mount as it can handle realistically anyways. Plus, that's guided. So, 2" PE is what you 'should' get it to (or smaller).

Knez, didn't realize you shouldn't have a normal graph with an OAG. Good to know.




I didn't take into account that its guided.

As far as fl, I belive the OP used his Borg to record this. Not the RC. The RC would give a better read on PE.


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Astronewb
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/19/11

Loc: Connecticut
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5855518 - 05/12/13 01:46 PM

Quote:

I didn't take into account that its guided.

As far as fl, I belive the OP used his Borg to record this. Not the RC. The RC would give a better read on PE.




Yep, I was using a Borg 50mm as a guide scope, focal length of the Borg is 250mm. I entered the Borg's focal length into PecPrep, which is what you're supposed to do. The focal length of the AT6RC w/CCDT67 reducer is approx. 950-1000mm with my current spacing.

I assume that using a OAG, at the focal length of the imaging scope would result in a more approximate PE value?

It's still a pretty good result with a 10# mount on a 1.5" tripod, considering it took all of about 10 minutes from setup to imaging.

Regards,

Paul


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Raginar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 [Re: Astronewb]
      #5855786 - 05/12/13 03:40 PM

Paul, I think you're doing pretty good . Makes me want one! I was thinking about getting a GM8 but this might be a good portable alternative.

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Footbag
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Raginar]
      #5856146 - 05/12/13 07:13 PM

All things considered, it seems like a very good mount. When you have great images, and have to critique PE graphs; you're typically paying thousands to split hairs. It's nice to be able to do that with a sub-1k mount.

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dennilfloss
sage


Reged: 01/06/13

Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Astronewb]
      #5856279 - 05/12/13 08:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Edit: just gave it a quick go with Focus Magic (I forgot this can also do motion deblur). Excuse my bad eyesight.

http://i.imgur.com/lRJQIhw.jpg




Wow...that worked great, and so much easier than using layer masks to do it? With a flat applied to get rid of the reducer vignetting, that would be a great single exposure of M101. Going to look at 'Focus Magic' real quick...lol.

Thanks for showing me that, all the best,

Paul




You can try it for free on 10 images. If you like it enough to buy it, it's $45US.


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psandelle
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: dennilfloss]
      #5856359 - 05/12/13 09:14 PM

Hadn't heard of Focus Magic - thanks for the info. Am going to test it in the future and probably buy.

Paul


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FishInPercolator
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/30/13

Loc: NYC
Re: 75 minute guided exposure iOtpron ZEQ25 new [Re: Footbag]
      #5856430 - 05/12/13 10:00 PM

Paul, would you recommend the ZEQ25? What's the total weight with counter and all. I'm considering it for either an 8" newt or 8" EdgeHD.

I was originally considering the iEQ30.

Edited by FishInPercolator (05/12/13 10:03 PM)


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