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Spacetravelerx
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Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Christopher Erickson]
      #5883417 - 05/25/13 01:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quite a lot of people here talking about how wonderful Meade support has been on their new products. Could someone take the time to explain to me why you would actually *NEED* support on a new product? How could you already need support unless something has gone wrong?

I think it would be much better if you could instead say "I've never needed support from Meade because my item works as perfect today as it did 5 years ago when I bought it."




I think that for many first-time GOTO scope owners, customer support is almost mandatory!

Home position, true-North versus magnetic-North, identifying alignment stars, etc.

Of course if the documentation and training materials included with the scope covered these issues better for beginners, they wouldn't have to make so many calls...




Well, I think I used one of the first goto telescopes from Meade in 1991, and started my observing at 5, and even have taught classes in the subject (I am a former Professor of Engineering Physics).

My support events are related to replacement of a diagonal (went well, no fuss, no muss and very prompt), and a couple of orders I had - all went well. Service was highly responsive and very friendly.

And there are other things I am working on using Meade products. As they say, stay tuned...


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Mike7Mak
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5884952 - 05/26/13 12:39 AM

Quote:


The "risk" of shipment?

Ever heard of Astromart?



Ever heard of FedEx?

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5884408/page...


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Stacy
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Reged: 09/15/02

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5885093 - 05/26/13 03:50 AM

I am looking at aquiring an almost new 12" LX200 ACF. It's good to see that a merger or aquisition is in process. I have delt with Scott with a few issues with my ES 127 ED. Fantastic service. I also got good service when I ordered a new power board for my LX90 ACF from Meade CS. It took awhile, because they got a bad batch, but my calls were almost always answered in a couple rings, by a person.

I feel more confident buying Meade now. Service is extreamly important and always will be with technical machines such as these.

Stacy


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jimb1001
sage
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Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: Meade and its currrent situation [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5885681 - 05/26/13 02:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:


The "risk" of shipment?

Ever heard of Astromart?



Ever heard of FedEx?

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5884408/page...




I've bought and sold well over 100 items on Astromart.

Guess how many were received damaged?

None.

Yes, I've heard of FedEx, UPS and the USPS.

But occasionally things do get damaged in transit.

My recently purchased LS8 arrived with an issue with the baffle tube.

Damaged in transit or manufacturing defect?

Who knows? Who cares?

Meade fixed it promptly under warranty and paid for shipping both ways.

I'm happy to criticize companies when they deserve it and Meade has done things worthy of honest criticism.

But the wholesale damning of Meade while there are thousands of happy LS, LX, Coronado, etc. users is ridiculous.


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Mike7Mak
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5886377 - 05/26/13 11:30 PM

Quote:

But occasionally things do get damaged in transit.

My recently purchased LS8 arrived with an issue with the baffle tube.

Damaged in transit or manufacturing defect?

Who knows? Who cares?

Meade fixed it promptly under warranty and paid for shipping both ways.

I'm happy to criticize companies when they deserve it and Meade has done things worthy of honest criticism.

But the wholesale damning of Meade while there are thousands of happy LS, LX, Coronado, etc. users is ridiculous.



That's my point. There is 'risk' shipping an LX200gps. And when it's a discontinued model, waaaaay out of warantee, what do you think is gonna happen when it gets impaled by a forklift? Think Meade (or anybody else for that matter) is gonna say 'oh gee, here's a new one, shipping's on us', not likely.

Please don't pretend that shipping a 60lb fork mounted telescope vs. a 5 oz circuit board is no big deal.

No 'wholesale damning' of Meade, just 'honest criticism' of the absurd no-parts policy, which is hopefully about to change.


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jimb1001
sage
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Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5886520 - 05/27/13 02:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

But occasionally things do get damaged in transit.

My recently purchased LS8 arrived with an issue with the baffle tube.

Damaged in transit or manufacturing defect?

Who knows? Who cares?

Meade fixed it promptly under warranty and paid for shipping both ways.

I'm happy to criticize companies when they deserve it and Meade has done things worthy of honest criticism.

But the wholesale damning of Meade while there are thousands of happy LS, LX, Coronado, etc. users is ridiculous.



That's my point. There is 'risk' shipping an LX200gps. And when it's a discontinued model, waaaaay out of warantee, what do you think is gonna happen when it gets impaled by a forklift? Think Meade (or anybody else for that matter) is gonna say 'oh gee, here's a new one, shipping's on us', not likely.

Please don't pretend that shipping a 60lb fork mounted telescope vs. a 5 oz circuit board is no big deal.

No 'wholesale damning' of Meade, just 'honest criticism' of the absurd no-parts policy, which is hopefully about to change.




Here are some easy solutions for you.

1. Don't buy it.

2. Drive to where its at and pick it up.

3. Check with your insurance company about getting an umbrella policy that will cover this sort of risk.

4. Buy new. Something with a warranty.

5. Buy from AP or one of the custom mount makers.

Or:

1. You can blame Meade for not supplying you a part that is likely long out of production and not even stocked. One that they may have to take out of your long out production device and repair, rather than replace.

2.Complain on Cloudy Nights until people just ignore the noise.


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Christopher EricksonModerator
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/08/06

Loc: Waikoloa Village, Hawaii
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5886533 - 05/27/13 03:24 AM

Come on guys, keep it positive and civil.

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rcdk
super member


Reged: 11/13/10

Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5886729 - 05/27/13 09:30 AM

I completely understand the policy, knowing that there are a lot of people I wouldn't trust to plug in a lamp.

But doing well as a business means taking problems and making them opportunities. Selling parts could be a money maker.

The downside is that you will have just as many people complaining about getting bad parts (that they screwed up themselves, or was the wrong part) as you do now complaining about not being able to get parts.

But if you make money off the situation, let them complain.


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Mike7Mak
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5886763 - 05/27/13 10:09 AM

Ok last try.

"Don't buy it" is certainly an option, and my current position until the parts policy changes. But the scope in question was purchased new, with warrantee, in 2005, before the no-parts policy. As you say shipping new warranteed items reduces the risk considerably.

The motherboard was lightning damaged long after the warrantee expired and the scope was discontinued. BUT it is a current, still in production LX200gps circuit board. The one I eventually found was for an ACF scope, and it was sold, by Meade, to the gentleman I bought it from.

You can consider this 'noise' if you want but it apparently got the attention of the soon-to-be new management of Meade, who have assured me they will be reconsidering this and other issues, thank you very much. The only reason I'm still going on about it is I'm incredulous you can't see the reasonableness of my argument.

Shipping 60lbs of scope across the country, twice, to replace a 5 oz circuit board, makes no sense what-so-ever.


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jimb1001
sage
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Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5887103 - 05/27/13 01:17 PM

Quote:

Ok last try.

"Don't buy it" is certainly an option, and my current position until the parts policy changes. But the scope in question was purchased new, with warrantee, in 2005, before the no-parts policy. As you say shipping new warranteed items reduces the risk considerably.

The motherboard was lightning damaged long after the warrantee expired and the scope was discontinued. BUT it is a current, still in production LX200gps circuit board. The one I eventually found was for an ACF scope, and it was sold, by Meade, to the gentleman I bought it from.

You can consider this 'noise' if you want but it apparently got the attention of the soon-to-be new management of Meade, who have assured me they will be reconsidering this and other issues, thank you very much. The only reason I'm still going on about it is I'm incredulous you can't see the reasonableness of my argument.

Shipping 60lbs of scope across the country, twice, to replace a 5 oz circuit board, makes no sense what-so-ever.




You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

Or, perhaps you didn't forget in which case, have a nice day.

It certainly sounds like you should never buy from Meade, or Celestron, for that matter. Their policies are what they are. I'm also sure Meade's new management will be "considering" all issues raised on this forum.

You should only buy from AP, or the like. They charge enough to cater to their customers individual wishes.

The smart buyer knows that "down and dirty" pricing means something isn't included. Its up to the buyer to figure out if what got left out is important to them and act accordingly.

Sometimes you might not know the shortcoming. But you always know the price and if its a lot lower than the better brands, you "should" know you are assuming some risk.

And if the product, from a tiny company, is over 5 years old, you need to be a little restrained in your expectations.

Most people understand this and factor it into their purchase decisions.


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Joad
Wordsmith
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Reged: 03/22/05

Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5887453 - 05/27/13 04:57 PM

I really don't think that what Mike7 and others have been saying in this thread is at all anti-Meade, nor even reflective of unrealistic and unfair consumer expectations. In fact, their comments strike me as pro-Meade but disappointed. Why? Well, we all know the history here. For many years, Meade offered a medium priced astrophotography platform to imagers who, for whatever reasons, choose not to go the premium route. Meade's products have been very good, but the fly in the ointment has tended to be electronic. The problems with the RCX line (not to mention the MaxMount) were legendary in this regard. But even the quite reliable LX200 series could, like any computer-driven instrument, develop problems. Now, the sort of people who tend to go into imaging are also the sort of people who are able (and accustomed) to repairing their own computer-driven gadgets. What they asked of Meade for many years was only the means to make their own repairs. With some exceptions (Cloudy Nights has posts from people who did manage to get the necessary parts shipped to them from Meade), Meade refused, offering instead an extended shipping warranty that cost hundreds of dollars. That made purchasing a computer-driven Meade scope more of a risk to potential buyers who have no fear of fixing their own gadgets but are not thrilled with the prospect of shipping a heavy and fragile object. We have years' worth of posts in this forum about all this.

The upshot has been that Meade has failed as an independent entity. Would a policy of shipping needed parts have saved the company? I don't know. But those who have been referring to that policy here have been doing so not in the name of denouncing Meade but, instead, on behalf of their wish that Meade had had a different policy that might have helped the company.

Oh: IMHP. YMMV.


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jgraham
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Joad]
      #5887622 - 05/27/13 06:26 PM

Hmmm, I'd suggest that Meade was a failure as a small publicly held company. When the focus shifts from making telescopes to making profits for your stock holders a company can lose its way.

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Mike7Mak
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: jimb1001]
      #5887673 - 05/27/13 07:04 PM

Quote:

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".



As did you.

I see no point in continuing this and I've had just about enough of being talked down to.

Have a nice day.


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rcdk
super member


Reged: 11/13/10

Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Joad]
      #5888995 - 05/28/13 01:39 PM

It is probably a bit of a stretch to blame their troubles on the parts issue.

Looks more like setting very ambitious goals without the resources to meet them.


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Pete V N
newbie


Reged: 12/03/12

Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5889308 - 05/28/13 04:30 PM

Quote:


I see no point in continuing this and I've had just about enough of being talked down to.

Have a nice day.




Mike it appears that there are only a few that consistently talk down to anyone with Meade issues. They seem to take a politician's sort of stance on an uncomfortable subject. Deny, deny, deny.

Anyone capable of thinking for themselves will realize what is going on and act appropriately. If they are unwilling or unable to repair a telescope themselves then Meade's policy is of little concern.

On the other hand I have seen messages on several forums where posters have said they dropped Meade off their list because of the policy.

I have paid attention to the threads and agree with you.

It is a free country, don't let a few politicians prevent you from expressing your ideas, and while you are at it have a nice day yourself.

Pete


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Mike7Mak
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Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: Meade and its currrent situation new [Re: Pete V N]
      #5889694 - 05/28/13 08:40 PM

Hi Pete.

With change of ownership in progress the 'parts policy' discussion is essentially moot, at least until new management is in full control of operations.

Quite apart from criticising Meade specifically I was merely trying to get across the point that shipping an entire scope back to the manufacturer for minor repairs is wasteful of time and money for the customer and vendor both. It's like shipping your car to 'Detroit' for new spark plugs instead of 'Detroit' sending a box of spark plugs to you. The savings in fuel and manhours more than outweigh the occasional false claim of defective parts. Not to mention the profit margin that must exist on a $400 circuit board that costs $6 to ship.


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