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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: David2011]
      #5927330 - 06/18/13 11:35 AM

Welcome to CN David! Thanks for your input concerning fracking, good to know these things.

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: David2011]
      #5927567 - 06/18/13 01:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

And herein Wisconsin, home of numerous frac sand mines that run 24-7, the light domes mark each facility.




Quote:

Why do they feel they have to light up every facility? Lighting does not equal security!




New to the forum and don't want to ruffle feathers but I've been an amateur astronomer for a long time and have some exposure to the oilfield. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about fracking. .....

David




David,

This is (in my opinion) not the place to discuss the pros and cons of gas frack'ing, except as it impacts Light Pollution in PA.

There has been a *major* impact to LP in PA, especially in the Cherry Springs dark sky park area, and others.

They are in the process of drilling many thousands of wells in what was empty forest, and will continue for many years. The lights on the well pads, and from all of the new truck traffic is part of the LP problem right now, plus the flaring. They do *a lot* of flaring right now in PA because there is no pipeline system in place, and thus no place to send the gas when it's first produced, and has to come out of the well. The industry itself acknowledges that in PA wells will have to be re-frack'ed every 5 years or less, so there will be no reduction in drilling/frack'ing light any time soon. However, as the gas lines go in, the need to flare will go down, or even disappear.

However, the bigger issue is the light coming from unregulated "industrial areas", like pumping stations, equipment storage facilities, truck parks, other support facilities, and other related development. Long convoys of water and drilling related heavy trucks and equipment now sometimes stream past Cherry Springs late at night for 30 or more minutes at a time. Without some sort of anti-LP regulation there is no doubt that the pristine dark sky that won Cherry Springs a "gold standard" designation from the IDA will be gone forever.

Other areas, like the nearby Mt. Pisgah State Park (formerly a green/gray zone border area), are already strongly impacted, with measurable loss of dark sky.


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amicus sidera
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/14/11

Loc: East of the Sun, West of the M...
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: George N]
      #5928307 - 06/18/13 09:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:


New to the forum and don't want to ruffle feathers but I've been an amateur astronomer for a long time and have some exposure to the oilfield. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about fracking. .....

David




David,

This is (in my opinion) not the place to discuss the pros and cons of gas frack'ing, except as it impacts Light Pollution in PA.





Indeed, George... indeed.

Any progress yet at the state level against these overlit towers?


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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5928949 - 06/19/13 10:33 AM

Quote:



Any progress yet at the state level against these overlit towers?




From what I remember of Chip's talk at CSSP:

PA does not currently have any anti-LP laws that apply to the gas drilling industry. He also believes that long-term lighting of the various "industrial infrastructure" sites that will remain is the long-term LP "problem" for Cherry Springs and Northeast PA. He is a member of an IDA group working on suggested law covering the gas and oil industry, and he noted that Texas already has such laws and he is currently thinking they would work in PA.

As I mentioned before, new well gas burn-off (flaring) will become less of a problem as the collection pipeline system is installed. Only the first burst will be burned once they have enough pipes to collect the gas. I'm not sure what happens when an existing well is re-fract'ed to get it going again - something that has to happen about every 5 years.

In the past, they have noted at Cherry Springs discussion of the issue: Lighting on the drilling towers is dictated by existing Federal safety law, and is very unlikely to be impacted by any anti-LP law. Apparently, there is at least one person up on the tower at all times while drilling and the lighting has to be the same level as in a factory.


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galaxyman
Vendor - Have a Stellar Birthday
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Reged: 04/04/05

Loc: Limerick, Pa
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: George N]
      #5930426 - 06/20/13 12:34 AM

Hi George

Pennsylvania will probably not have any statewide LP laws anytime soon, for they do things like that on the local level.

Now my question is about the lighting fixtures at these gas facilities. Are they shielded or not?

I have not been up at Cherry Springs for a while now, so I have not seen any of this.

Something like this should get the full attention of the IDA. I know representatives of the POLC have been up there in years past.


Karl
E.O.H.


Chesmont Astronomical Society - www.chesmontastro.org
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ES 6" f/6.5 achro. Good one
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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: galaxyman]
      #5931191 - 06/20/13 12:19 PM

Quote:

Hi George

Pennsylvania will probably not have any statewide LP laws anytime soon, for they do things like that on the local level.

Now my question is about the lighting fixtures at these gas facilities. Are they shielded or not?

I have not been up at Cherry Springs for a while now, so I have not seen any of this.

Something like this should get the full attention of the IDA. I know representatives of the POLC have been up there in years past.


Karl
E.O.H.


Chesmont Astronomical Society - www.chesmontastro.org
Galaxy Log - http://www.youtube.com/user/GalaxyLog4565?feature=mhee
Galaxy Log Blog - http://galaxylog.blogspot.com/
HASB - http://www.haveastellarbirthday.com
Telekit (Swayze optics) 22" F/4.5 Dob
Homemade (Parks Optics) 12.5" F/4.8 Dob
TMB/APM 8" f/9 Refractor”The Beast”. One great DEEP SKY achro
ES 6" f/6.5 achro. Good one
Celestron Omni XLT 102 refractor.
Celestron 10x60mm Binos




Karl, et al:

I took only a brief look at the new equipment storage yard east of Galeton. I believe that there are just plain ol' cobra-head street lights..... i.e., the worst kind. There were also a lot of trucks, so I expect some head light increases.

Chip said that he is on a new IDA committee drafting rules changes for their dark sky parks. They will now monitor LP, and a park (like CSSP) *can* now be down-graded if LP gets worse. Bottom line: CSSP could lose its 'gold standard' rating!!!

Chip is also on the IDA committee that is coming up with draft anti-LP laws for the gas/oil industry. He said that the industry in PA is agreeable, and looking to take actions that increases their popularity with the locals. Perhaps the IDA, PA state parks, other groups, could convince the PA gas companies to voluntarily implement the IDA recommendations? From what Chip said, it sounds like they would be agreeable. Again, he said that the anti-LP laws applicable to the gas/oil industry in Texas look to be a good model for PA, but will be reviewed.


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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: George N]
      #5954878 - 07/04/13 02:52 PM

The Anadarko Petroleum Corporation is seeking permission from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to frack and industrialize an unspoiled area of the Loyalsock State Forest known as the Clarence Moore Lands.

http://www.bayjournal.com/article/conservationists_fight_to_save_one_of_pas_g...

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/groups/public/documents/document/dcnr_20026829...

Dave Mitsky


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