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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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rmollise
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Stew57]
      #5929754 - 06/19/13 05:40 PM

Quote:

Meade certainly has some patents that Celestron would want. Not having to press align while an alignment star drifted into position for one. I can't see Meade's technology just vanishing, but the sum of the individual parts may be worth more than the value of the whole.




Is that part of a Meade patent? Never heard that.


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Stew57
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Reged: 05/03/09

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5929772 - 06/19/13 05:49 PM

See 4th post in "Aligning Meades and Celestrons?". I should have been more specific. Sorry for the confusion.

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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Stew57]
      #5929780 - 06/19/13 05:53 PM

That post is not correct. The Celestrons worked the same way well before the days of the Meade North and Level lawsuit. That's exactly the behavior of the earliest NS5s and 8s as well as the NS GPSes...

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Stew57
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Reged: 05/03/09

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5929803 - 06/19/13 06:03 PM

I never had a Celestron fork, just Meade. I wonder why Celestron doesn't change this. as it seems tracking being on would make it easier to align.

Anyway I am sure there is some valuable Meade technology that other companies would love to scoop up. The question is it more valuable lump sum or piecemeal to the share holder?


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jared]
      #5929821 - 06/19/13 06:16 PM

Maybe MIT Capital has another buyer already lined up who doesn't want to deal with taking it private or managing a public company. What if, for example, Synta was bidding by proxy through MIT. Let MIT disentangle the company from the shareholders by offering a 20 cent premium, and then transfer to Synta just those assets Synta wants (SCT biz to kill it and strengthen Celestron's position in that segment and Coronado solar, to inject capital for R&D and production cost reduction and bury little Lunt to make a little new money).

Going public was the stupidest thing ever for Meade customers. It hasn't been a good deal for shareholders either. It did, however, make the founders rich. Oooh hoo take the money and run!

- Jim


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johnnyha
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Stew57]
      #5929836 - 06/19/13 06:25 PM

The interesting thing to me here is that Meade is for sale for a little over 4 million, or as viewers of "Million Dollar Listing New York" would know, about the price of a 3 bedroom apartment in Manhattan.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: johnnyha]
      #5929846 - 06/19/13 06:33 PM

I would have thought shareholders would have welcomed the merger with ES as proof the company would be in good hands. But all it seems is people would sooner let Meade go bankrupt for the sake of 7% more return on the stock price, which mind you was at $1.42 before the JOC offer was announced.

I have had really high hopes for ES/ Meade.

-Rich


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WesC
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Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5929875 - 06/19/13 06:56 PM

OK, lets not be too naive or idealistic here.

Shareholders, as a rule, are interested in only one thing. Profit. They care about the company, its products patents or customers only as long as the value of their stock increases, they don't care about anything else. When they shares dive and their investment in the company becomes a loss, they want out at the highest value they can get. That means selling the company for the highest share price--regardless of the intentions of the buyer. And I'm sorry, but these dime-a-dozen "private equity"/"investment capital"/"acquisition" firms do one thing... swoop in and take failing companies, milk every last cent of value out of them and dump the carcass in a barrel. Period. They're collection agencies milking debt for profit. Bottom feeders.

At this point Meade is lost, one way or another, from an investment standpoint. Shareholders only want to get the most amount of money for their shares and they don't give a rip about what happens to Meade after that.

You have two buyers. One that wants to turn the company around and move it forward, another that wants to gut any remaining value from it for the shareholders and their own profit. Whomever has the deepest pockets and can satisfy the greed of the shareholders will win. End of story.


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drollere
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: johnnyha]
      #5929880 - 06/19/13 06:57 PM

i cannot parse this deal based on public info i can find. MIT is actually bidding through an investment subsidiary "Merger Sub", owned by "MIT Capital Inc." of San Jose, CA ... all information is attributed to jason tian, CEO of MITC and "VictoryOne Inc." neither tian nor any of corporations just listed has a web presence or documentation other than this press release.

the salient detail is that MITC has been in discussion with meade for the past sixteen months before its looming "liquidity event" and "submitted" three prior offers, which makes it likely that meade senior management is party to the transaction:

"Holders of Company common stock should be aware that Meade's executive officers and directors may have interests in the merger that are different from, or in addition to, the interests of holders of Company common stock in general."

the stated business goal, to "revive the Meade brand by creating new markets for Meade products and attract new generations of Meade fans through our sales and distribution channels in emerging markets" strikes me as generic executive smokespeak and implausible at face. what distribution channels, which new products? dude, you don't even have a web page.

without disparaging meade any more than necessary, it's factual to state that meade senior management has made poor decisions in the past, so it is unlikely that this represents any good news for meade's employees or customers -- especially if JOC walks away from this sockpuppet bidding war.

press release HERE.


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WesC
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Reged: 02/06/13

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: drollere]
      #5929889 - 06/19/13 07:04 PM

Bruce, exactly right. This is an ugly time for Meade, the company has been run into the ground and the top execs are scrambling for whatever $$$$$$ they can squeeze out of it.

Its no surprise that you can't find anything on this deal, these companies hide their games within shells of other companies in a chain of legal jargon and layers of secrecy so as to "protect the interests of the investors." In plain English, its sleight of hand to hide the fact that the execs and shareholders see more financial gain for themselves by setting up a quickie "investment" firm to play all sorts of insider numbers games and suck a few more million from the corpse of Meade before trashing it.

This is the exact same thing that happened with Digital Domain, Hostess and many other companies over the last few decades.

The small investors, customers and worst of all, employees suffer great loss to make a few stupid, but very rich people even richer.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: drollere]
      #5929913 - 06/19/13 07:23 PM

Regardless of how this works out, thank you for posting this. I had wondered about the complete absence from the visible world this MITC group had outside of Meade press releases. This explains a lot. Like, it's pretty easy to mark on a calendar when this discussion must have started because the management focus shifted at that point.

Quote:

i cannot parse this deal based on public info i can find. MIT is actually bidding through an investment subsidiary "Merger Sub", owned by "MIT Capital Inc." of San Jose, CA ... all information is attributed to jason tian, CEO of MITC and "VictoryOne Inc." neither tian nor any of corporations just listed has a web presence or documentation other than this press release.

the salient detail is that MITC has been in discussion with meade for the past sixteen months before its looming "liquidity event" and "submitted" three prior offers, which makes it likely that meade senior management is party to the transaction:

"Holders of Company common stock should be aware that Meade's executive officers and directors may have interests in the merger that are different from, or in addition to, the interests of holders of Company common stock in general."

the stated business goal, to "revive the Meade brand by creating new markets for Meade products and attract new generations of Meade fans through our sales and distribution channels in emerging markets" strikes me as generic executive smokespeak and implausible at face. what distribution channels, which new products? dude, you don't even have a web page.

without disparaging meade any more than necessary, it's factual to state that meade senior management has made poor decisions in the past, so it is unlikely that this represents any good news for meade's employees or customers -- especially if JOC walks away from this sockpuppet bidding war.

press release HERE.




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Qwickdraw
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Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: WesC]
      #5929930 - 06/19/13 07:38 PM

Quote:

OK, lets not be too naive or idealistic here.

Shareholders, as a rule, are interested in only one thing. Profit. They care about the company, its products patents or customers only as long as the value of their stock increases, they don't care about anything else. When they shares dive and their investment in the company becomes a loss, they want out at the highest value they can get. That means selling the company for the highest share price--regardless of the intentions of the buyer. And I'm sorry, but these dime-a-dozen "private equity"/"investment capital"/"acquisition" firms do one thing... swoop in and take failing companies, milk every last cent of value out of them and dump the carcass in a barrel. Period. They're collection agencies milking debt for profit. Bottom feeders.

At this point Meade is lost, one way or another, from an investment standpoint. Shareholders only want to get the most amount of money for their shares and they don't give a rip about what happens to Meade after that.

You have two buyers. One that wants to turn the company around and move it forward, another that wants to gut any remaining value from it for the shareholders and their own profit. Whomever has the deepest pockets and can satisfy the greed of the shareholders will win. End of story.




Not always true, Many times shareholders are also employees who typically care a great deal about the welfare of the company.


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WesC
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5929939 - 06/19/13 07:44 PM

I seriously doubt that is the case here. Wait and see...

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Mike in Tampa
super member


Reged: 05/19/13

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: johnnyha]
      #5929963 - 06/19/13 08:04 PM

Quote:

The interesting thing to me here is that Meade is for sale for a little over 4 million, or as viewers of "Million Dollar Listing New York" would know, about the price of a 3 bedroom apartment in Manhattan.




I was thinking the same thing, that the amounts being divulged (acquisitions, debt per quarter, etc.) seem small in the corporate world. How many CN members are there? I suggest we all go in and buy Meade for 4.5 Mil, fire the current leaders, and build some Killer Scopes.

all kidding aside, I hope they get things worked out. it would be a sad day for the hobby to lose one of the BIG TWO.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mike in Tampa]
      #5929987 - 06/19/13 08:17 PM

Don't joke. If we did it, we'd be feared.

-Rich


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Starhawk
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Reged: 09/16/08

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5929991 - 06/19/13 08:20 PM

Let's see, if we can get half the members of CN to pitch in, that's 30,000 people, and if each antes up $150, there's the $4.5 mil needed to take that ship!

-Rich


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Mike in Tampa
super member


Reged: 05/19/13

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5929995 - 06/19/13 08:23 PM

count me in for 2 shares then!

29,998 to go


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brucepech
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mike in Tampa]
      #5930001 - 06/19/13 08:28 PM

Count me in for another two. (BTW, Chris Erickson started a similar thread in the Meade ACF/RCX/LX/GPS Forum early this morning. Worth a look.)

Edited by brucepech (06/19/13 08:32 PM)


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Starhawk
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Reged: 09/16/08

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: brucepech]
      #5930014 - 06/19/13 08:34 PM

This is unusual- we've turned this corner and the thread is still on topic.

So, we're at 6/30k of the way. What else do we need?

-Rich


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Jared
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5930017 - 06/19/13 08:36 PM

Quote:

Maybe MIT Capital has another buyer already lined up who doesn't want to deal with taking it private or managing a public company. What if, for example, Synta was bidding by proxy through MIT. Let MIT disentangle the company from the shareholders by offering a 20 cent premium, and then transfer to Synta just those assets Synta wants (SCT biz to kill it and strengthen Celestron's position in that segment and Coronado solar, to inject capital for R&D and production cost reduction and bury little Lunt to make a little new money).

- Jim




Yeah, "flipping" may be the one scenario that makes sense for MIT Capital. I don't see breaking Meade up and selling off the patents, capital equipment, inventory, etc. as netting anywhere near enough to repay the investment.

Based on their current balance sheet, if MIT were going to liquidate the company and sell off the assets, in order to recover their investment and cover liabilities, they would need to sell off the assets at literally 80% of their book value (including intangibles). Considering that most of that is raw materials and finished goods, and considering the balance sheet numbers are from the end of February (and Meade is burning through roughly $1M in cash per quarter) it doesn't seem very plausible. They must be planning something else. The proxy idea seems reasonable. I can imagine Synta deciding that completely removing their one major competitor in the SCT world for a $4M investment being a "good deal."


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