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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: pfile]
      #5956159 - 07/05/13 02:21 PM

You are right... this thread is thick and meandering. Easy to miss stuff.

By the way, you can also gather from this that Meade's management and board are really not driving the train at this point.


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5956193 - 07/05/13 02:43 PM

Quote:

You are right... this thread is thick and meandering. Easy to miss stuff.

By the way, you can also gather from this that Meade's management and board are really not driving the train at this point.




Once a train is derailed, nobody's really driving it anymore.....and Meade's management is the FIRST thing that should go...Hopefully JOC or MIT (whichever wins?) will bring Meade back, but I have a feeling outside of a few SCT models, Meade USA will basically go away, and the remaining SCTs will probably have a different nameplate.....


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Matthew Ota
Hmmm


Reged: 04/30/05

Loc: Los Angeles, California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5956267 - 07/05/13 03:41 PM

The Los Angeles Times deemed this as newsworthy in today's Business Section:

Telescope Maker Meade at at Turning Point


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens {:o) [Re: Matthew Ota]
      #5956299 - 07/05/13 04:03 PM

Oogah Boogah !

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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mclewis1]
      #5956308 - 07/05/13 04:06 PM

I'm surprised there arent more Folks that bought the new/ revamped Meades harping in.. The one I looked through worked flawlessly, and optically was as good and mostly better than anything I have seen before.
It would be a true shame for a company like Meade to loose the battle after all this time.
I am even more surprised that the company hasnt replaced certain executives that ran the Boat into the Reef?!?
There has to be someone made responsible for the HUGE error
that threatens to sink the whole fleet.
That would at least, make people feel the Company is taking steps to correct the faulty decision making of the last couple disasters.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Matthew Ota]
      #5956398 - 07/05/13 05:16 PM

Quote:

The Los Angeles Times deemed this as newsworthy in today's Business Section:





Already mentioned upthread (this one is really becoming too long)... where I said:

"[It] is a poorly researched article by a Times staffer who may or may not know much about the corporate food chain but clearly doesn't know anything about amateur astronomy and didn't bother to find out...

An insightful quote from this goober? 'People no longer hold stargazing parties.'

Goob didn't bother to talk to any amateurs. Or find anything out about our avocation or its current status. I would bet my bottom dollar that he asked a Meade corporate drone why they were on the rocks, and the answer was, 'It's not anything WE did...amateur astronomy is dead. Why we ran this company like a well-oiled machine.'"



Edited by rmollise (07/05/13 05:17 PM)


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rcdk
super member


Reged: 11/13/10

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5956411 - 07/05/13 05:21 PM

Quote:


Goob didn't bother to talk to any amateurs. Or find anything out about our avocation or its current status. I would bet my bottom dollar that he asked a Meade corporate drone why they were on the rocks, and the answer was, "It's not anything WE did...amateur astronomy is dead. Why we ran this company like a well-oiled machine."






Meade has been on this trajectory for a long time. It is hard not to come to the conclusion that every decision they have made over the last few years has been an attempt to treat symptoms rather than correcting the problem.

I don't think it is Meade's products or the market. If someone manages to buy Meade before its current management finishes running it into the ground, the new owners first action should be to have the current management tossed out a window.


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Mark Costello
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Matthews, NC, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5956429 - 07/05/13 05:30 PM

Hi, Starrancher. From that LA Times article, it looks as if Meade's sales took a worse beating than telescope sales in general.

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Mark Costello
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Matthews, NC, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5956434 - 07/05/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You are right... this thread is thick and meandering. Easy to miss stuff.

By the way, you can also gather from this that Meade's management and board are really not driving the train at this point.




Once a train is derailed, nobody's really driving it anymore.....and Meade's management is the FIRST thing that should go...Hopefully JOC or MIT (whichever wins?) will bring Meade back, but I have a feeling outside of a few SCT models, Meade USA will basically go away, and the remaining SCTs will probably have a different nameplate.....





Just my guess: This has a better chance of happening from a merger with JOC, who's done business with Meade in the past and whose American venture, ES, is headed up by someone who's worked for Meade....


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5956458 - 07/05/13 05:50 PM

Mark,

Unfortunately what seems to make the most sense from our point of view doesn't necessarily make the most sense for the folks on the board.

As has been often quoted it's usually a good idea to "follow the money".


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5956464 - 07/05/13 05:53 PM

Mark,

Unfortunately what makes sense to us may not make the most sense to the board.

As has been often said ... it's usually a good a idea to "follow the money".


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EJN
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5956466 - 07/05/13 05:54 PM

Quote:

It's almost become an embarrassment to be an American anymore.



Do not worry. There is one thing in which America leads the world by so much
I don't see how any other country could ever catch up with us:
obesity.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5956475 - 07/05/13 06:00 PM

Quote:

Hi, Starrancher. From that LA Times article, it looks as if Meade's sales took a worse beating than telescope sales in general.




No doubt there's some truth to that . A good part of Meades problems has to be directly related to mismanagement and poor decisions made in marketing with somewhat of a disconnect in what would be best in adding and deleating products within the lineup .
It seems that the product lineup starts with more or less toy scopes , misses the mid priced market altogether and makes a jump to the high end stuff . It seems that the have bet the farm on Astro Imaging and abandoned the serious visual observer . I see lots of enthusiasm in Astro photography and it being a growing trend , but what about those who chose to just enjoy Astronomy in the personal aspect of being at one with and under the grandure of the night sky .
This in my opinion (and we all know what that's about) , is a huge mistake in marketing strategy .
The missing link is where the affordable and versatile LXD75 line used to reside , along with the more affordable fork mounted SCTs prior to all the bell and whistle stuff that took over that realm .
I realise that a GEM mount isn't required to do visual and Celstron has done well with the single armed fork mount stuff , but as what you might call a traditionalist , I prefer the GEM . There again , Celestron had the foresight to maintain an affordable CG5-GT mount in the lineup and expanded on that into the CGEM etc . That retained the traditional aspect , gave the consumer an upgraded choice from entry level and yet kept things at a price level that the more meekly financed could attain .
While Celestron excelled in this niche of the market , Meade came to a screeching halt.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EJN]
      #5956492 - 07/05/13 06:07 PM

I think I'm from Canada .
And ... Who cares if you don't agree with my analysis ?


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5956557 - 07/05/13 06:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi, Starrancher. From that LA Times article, it looks as if Meade's sales took a worse beating than telescope sales in general.




No doubt there's some truth to that . A good part of Meades problems has to be directly related to mismanagement and poor decisions made in marketing with somewhat of a disconnect in what would be best in adding and deleating products within the lineup .
It seems that the product lineup starts with more or less toy scopes , misses the mid priced market altogether and makes a jump to the high end stuff . It seems that the have bet the farm on Astro Imaging and abandoned the serious visual observer . I see lots of enthusiasm in Astro photography and it being a growing trend , but what about those who chose to just enjoy Astronomy in the personal aspect of being at one with and under the grandure of the night sky .
This in my opinion (and we all know what that's about) , is a huge mistake in marketing strategy .
The missing link is where the affordable and versatile LXD75 line used to reside , along with the more affordable fork mounted SCTs prior to all the bell and whistle stuff that took over that realm .
I realise that a GEM mount isn't required to do visual and Celstron has done well with the single armed fork mount stuff , but as what you might call a traditionalist , I prefer the GEM . There again , Celestron had the foresight to maintain an affordable CG5-GT mount in the lineup and expanded on that into the CGEM etc . That retained the traditional aspect , gave the consumer an upgraded choice from entry level and yet kept things at a price level that the more meekly financed could attain .
While Celestron excelled in this niche of the market , Meade came to a screeching halt.



Not sure I agree with that analysis.
Meade has/had "SCT" scopes for very modest prices (starting at $799) and every couple hundred up from there. And MCT scopes for less. They lost the ETX scopes after severing ties with JOC (whichever party did it), but brought the ETX90 back in from another supplier eventually (though they went through a Chistmas season without it).
As a seller of Meades, I can tell you that though Meade offered a 6" f/5 newtonian, and 8" SCT on a GEM, they were never popular. Nearly every customer I talked to, looking in that price range, wanted something a lot lighter, which made the Celestron SEs a lot easier to sell.
Plus, Celestrons were typically available while there were waiting lines for the Meade LTs and LSs.
Meade did ignore the entry-level astrophotography market to their detriment, for too many years, but had the LX80 lived up to expectations, we might not be having this conversation. Instead, Celestron expanded their offerings, as did the new upstart, iOptron, and Vixen as well, leaving Meade to pick up the scraps with products they couldn't make in sufficient quantities.

It's easy to see what went wrong. In hind-sight, they should have bought iOptron and simply re-badged the many mounts they made. it would have allowed Meade to concentrate on OTAs, where they had manufacturing strength.


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7331Peg
Sirius Observer
*****

Reged: 09/01/08

Loc: North coast of Oregon
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starman1]
      #5956595 - 07/05/13 07:11 PM

(Note: this isn't a response to Don's message)

Here's the latest news from Meade today: Meade's Response to the MIT Capital Offer

If you read it carefully, you'll notice it doesn't cast the offer from MIT Capital in the best light.


John


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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5956681 - 07/05/13 08:13 PM

If I remember right I believe the Celestron Ultimas were actually Matsuyama clones. Hence the 7 elements in the short focal lengths and 5 in the longer.

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RodgerHouTex
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starman1]
      #5956684 - 07/05/13 08:17 PM

Excellent and timely post Don. I know I've done my best to keep the astronomy equipment market going for the last 15 years.

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Spacetravelerx
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: 7331Peg]
      #5956717 - 07/05/13 08:50 PM

Quote:

(Note: this isn't a response to Don's message)

Here's the latest news from Meade today: Meade's Response to the MIT Capital Offer

If you read it carefully, you'll notice it doesn't cast the offer from MIT Capital in the best light.


John




Very interesting read.

And I am pleased BoD rejected the offer. I felt very uncomfortable with MITC's offer.

I also think this is very good news for the future of Meade.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5956888 - 07/05/13 11:10 PM

I hate to say it, but if all stockholders have to look forward to is being bought out for pennies on the dollar for what they paid for Meade stock, either way, is it realistic to ask them to take a lower offer because the board which destroyed their investment asks them not to? Back in Engineering Economy at GT, the answer was, "Set emotion aside and ignore sunk costs- you have to go with the best answer from where you are, now."

-Rich


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