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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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R L Harris
member


Reged: 01/31/13

Loc: Tecumseh, OK
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5956911 - 07/05/13 11:24 PM

unlike MIT Joc is not trying to buy other peoples shares but is buying up the remaining unsold shares!

Edited by R L Harris (07/05/13 11:25 PM)


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Calypte
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Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5956978 - 07/06/13 12:30 AM

Quote:

I hate to say it, but if all stockholders have to look forward to is being bought out for pennies on the dollar for what they paid for Meade stock, either way, is it realistic to ask them to take a lower offer because the board which destroyed their investment asks them not to? Back in Engineering Economy at GT, the answer was, "Set emotion aside and ignore sunk costs- you have to go with the best answer from where you are, now."

-Rich



But, as I understand the recommendation from the BOD, MIT doesn't actually have to follow through, even if Meade accepts their offer, whereas JOC must complete the transaction. If the stockholders go with MIT, they could be left with nothing. A few years ago I owned common stock in a company that went Ch11, and my investment became worthless.


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5957111 - 07/06/13 04:39 AM

Quote:

I hate to say it, but if all stockholders have to look forward to is being bought out for pennies on the dollar for what they paid for Meade stock, either way, is it realistic to ask them to take a lower offer because the board which destroyed their investment asks them not to? Back in Engineering Economy at GT, the answer was, "Set emotion aside and ignore sunk costs- you have to go with the best answer from where you are, now."

-Rich




Rich:

The way I read the board's reply was that MITC had not yet provided a solid offer and that they could back out. Considering their offer would allow JOC to back out and so Meade would be left with neither offer.

Maybe one to the financially savvy folks will clear it all up...

Jon


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5957128 - 07/06/13 05:53 AM

A few pages ago somebody said that Meade spent $15,000,000 on the North and Level patent war with Celestron. Think how much development that would have paid for.

Chris


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5957264 - 07/06/13 09:47 AM

Quote:

If I remember right I believe the Celestron Ultimas were actually Matsuyama clones. Hence the 7 elements in the short focal lengths and 5 in the longer.




Celestron never made eyepieces. The Ultimas were imported.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5957293 - 07/06/13 10:11 AM

Am I wrong to wonder if the MITC offer is possibly just intended to force Meade into receivership?

-Rich


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RodgerHouTex
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Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5957443 - 07/06/13 12:14 PM

I never said Celestron made the Ultimas. And yes I believe they were imported from Japan or Taiwan.

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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5957545 - 07/06/13 01:34 PM

Quote:

I never said Celestron made the Ultimas. And yes I believe they were imported from Japan or Taiwan.




Neither were they clones.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5957583 - 07/06/13 01:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I never said Celestron made the Ultimas. And yes I believe they were imported from Japan or Taiwan.




Neither were they clones.



Rod is probably right. Earlier detective work by some CN denizens implied the "pseudo-Masuyama" (Lawrence Sayre's term) 5-element "Super Plossl" eyepieces from Japan were legitimately made by the same optical firm that made the Masuyamas, but were different in shape because of the use of more modern glass types.
And that the roughly 10 or 15 brand labels including Meade) under which they sold were all from that same company.
There is a question whether the current Takahashi LEs are from the same factory.

Edited by Starman1 (07/06/13 01:55 PM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5957586 - 07/06/13 01:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I never said Celestron made the Ultimas. And yes I believe they were imported from Japan or Taiwan.




Neither were they clones.






In my mind a clone is a copy or near copy. The Ultima's were not a clone in that sense, they were what they were.

The various 30mm 80 degree eyepieces that float around today are clones of the original Widescan II. Markus Ludes advertised on S.A.A. for a Widescan II to copy and he copied it and solid it under the BW-Optik label. What Markus didn't count on was that the factory that was doing the cloning decided to sell to anyone.

In contrast, the Synta 66 degree eyepieces sold by Orion as the Expanse, Antares as the W70s, Agena as the EWA and by others under other names are not clones, they are not copies, they are the same eyepiece with a different labels.

Jon


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jgraham
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5957624 - 07/06/13 02:20 PM

in other words... rebranded.

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petrus45
sage
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Reged: 01/31/11

Loc: SW Ohio / N Ky.
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5957663 - 07/06/13 02:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:


My only problem with what you are saying is it sounds like Deus Ex Machina to me. Who is this magic entity who already knows the company in and out, and knows the market perfectly, and why didn't they save it in the first place?

I agree if someone who knows the company in and out, has perfect knowledge of the business, and has perfect knowledge of the market combined with massive resources, they should do well. Then again, the company's remains offer nothing to such an entity.




Rich:

Based on some knowledge, some conjecture, this person and crew are the good folks at Explore Scientific. It's my understanding that Scott Roberts was quite high up in the management at Meade when he left to found Explore Scientific. From what I have seen, they understand the market and are observers themselves, they know what makes a reasonable telescope and what doesn't.

Jinghua, a long time supplier of Meade, they now own Explore Scientific as well as other parts of the Meade corp.. When Scott left Meade to form ES, I can only guess he was fed up with the Meade and thought he could do a better job himself. Hopefully... he and his crew will get the chance to show what they can do with Meade.

Jon




I've often wondered how or why ES products have remained so impossibly cheap and yet of TV-comparable quality, even in the face of shortages. Maybe the demise / takeover of Meade in the potential offing offers some explanation....


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Dr Morbius
Post Laureate
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Reged: 02/06/07

Loc: ManorvilleNY-but not for long
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: petrus45]
      #5957738 - 07/06/13 03:31 PM

Yes, like what Home Depot did when they came into town, their low prices killed the towns plumbing supply, lumber yard and hardware stores (all family owned btw) and when they died out, Home Depot's prices went up. Another thing most are missing here.............there seems to be in this country a growing hatred of science (which scares me big time!) either being in schools or churches - my son is a teacher in Florida and has seen science books that make [to be kind} silly statements or things that just make no sense - the humans and dinosaurs thing - he calls it the "Flintstones Effect". I saw on the tv show 60 Minutes the same thing happening in other states also. What has happened to America?

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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Dr Morbius]
      #5957774 - 07/06/13 03:54 PM

Got a PM from Russ at ES and he told me they were very busy with this Meade issue. In his PM he mentioned that their plans include fixing the LX80, modify the LX600 and offer it without the bells and whistles, and that the LXD75 fixes have been made and ready for release pending what name will be affixed to it. He also mentioned going modular with the mounts (believed he meant offering the OTA's and mounts separately). They're also considering name's for the business, maybe combining something to honor both businesses. I certainly hope JOC/ES wins this takeover battle over Meade.

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R L Harris
member


Reged: 01/31/13

Loc: Tecumseh, OK
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5957792 - 07/06/13 04:06 PM

Very Interesting in deed!

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Hilmi
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Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: R L Harris]
      #5957813 - 07/06/13 04:18 PM

If you are in touch with Russ could you drop him a note telling him it would be nice if after buying Meade they could stop this nonsense about not selling internationally?

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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Hilmi]
      #5957858 - 07/06/13 04:50 PM

Meade Europe is a separate entity from Meade USA, but I believe JOC already owns Meade Europe, so if they end up with both halves of Meade, it would make sense they would merge the two with ES somehow. It would certainly be a boon to the SCT folks worldwide.

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Jon Isaacs
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jgraham]
      #5957866 - 07/06/13 04:56 PM

Quote:

in other words... rebranded.




In many cases "branded" would be more appropriate.

Jon


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EddWen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5957925 - 07/06/13 05:34 PM

Who is Russ at Explore Scientific?



Quote:

Got a PM from Russ at ES and he told me they were very busy with this Meade issue. In his PM he mentioned that their plans include fixing the LX80, modify the LX600 and offer it without the bells and whistles, and that the LXD75 fixes have been made and ready for release pending what name will be affixed to it. He also mentioned going modular with the mounts (believed he meant offering the OTA's and mounts separately). They're also considering name's for the business, maybe combining something to honor both businesses. I certainly hope JOC/ES wins this takeover battle over Meade.




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petrus45
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Reged: 01/31/11

Loc: SW Ohio / N Ky.
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Dr Morbius]
      #5957944 - 07/06/13 05:44 PM

[Modified per request of moderator]

You have to wonder when the ES prices are going to bounce up to the list price instead of the seemingly perpetual sale price. Seems like some of the competition has to go away before that can happen....

And by the way I'm a fan of ES, as long as it remains affordable. But if the competition goes away and the prices go up, then I would be less a fan.

Then again I'm not for external price controls not driven by market forces.

I'm intrigued by the amazing level of interest on this forum in individuals banding together and purchasing Meade - in a way so proletarian and yet so capitalistic as well.

Edited by petrus45 (07/07/13 07:17 PM)


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