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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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piaras
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 01/26/09

Loc: Niagara Region
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EddWen]
      #5976762 - 07/17/13 08:22 PM

This is just a sad sad read.

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Scotty H
super member


Reged: 11/15/10

Loc: Surrey,UK
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Roy McCoy]
      #5976772 - 07/17/13 08:24 PM

Ok........ I can't be xxxxxx about a reply with that.....
SWEET, I said xxxxxx and got away with it. Yeah that's right I said xxxxxx... real word and everything, this should be a thread about Meade and if, maybe they will survive .... Bored now.

Not for long!!! Cotts



Edited by Cotts (07/17/13 11:43 PM)


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Mike7Mak
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/07/11

Loc: New York
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) new [Re: EddWen]
      #5976799 - 07/17/13 08:45 PM

Quote:

I suggest the decrease sales of the LX200 scopes are due to premature advertising of new product.



That's more than a tad ironic if true. Rather than suppress purchases of other brands their premature ad campaigns suppressed purchases of their own products.


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rdandrea
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/13/10

Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EddWen]
      #5976810 - 07/17/13 08:51 PM

Did you have to post most of the 10-Q? Most of us are smart enough to find it all by ourselves.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Mike7Mak]
      #5976812 - 07/17/13 08:53 PM

I think it's spot on. Think about other areas ranging from cars to smartphones where manufacturers take insane care to keep new products under wraps because they don't want to quench sales of their current line.

I can only think Meade really expected to be shipping these a lot sooner. But with the amount of change from their previous lineup, it was like they forgot everything they ever learned. I can only imagine a manager thought it was "Time to go big or go home!" before checking to see if he was in charge of a vast industrial powerhouse our a modest lower tier manufacturing house.

-Rich


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Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Alph]
      #5976942 - 07/17/13 10:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I better get back to selling my LX850 before there is a fire sale and I'm lucky to get anything for it.

This whole thing is really depressing.



My advice, ignore this thread and you will be fine. Oh all those CN financial experts who don't have a clue what the real story is. I think Meade guys must be getting a good laugh out of this thread.




I have been so busy working, I don't know where to begin to catch up in all this!

You Padawans...such a bunch of negative Nancy's!

Alph - I agree.

I will get to the Tax comments later...

So let me take a simple approach. A company from China is ponying up a lot of money. They seem to do mostly low end telescopes.

* Do you think they are purchasing Meade for the name only? Do you think they will ditch most of the high end stuff, and just put the Meade logo on the low end stuff? Does this make sense folks?
* You think they are purchasing Meade, not realizing the up front investment they will need to make? My bet is they have done their due diligence.
* Or do you think they are fools, don't realize what they are getting into, and don't plan to make many investments in Meade after the purchase?


BTW - I agree with Rich (again), if I understood him correctly (and this was discussed many posts ago). Meade made a HUGE mistake pre-announcing the LX800, then the LX80, and then the LX600 AND THEN having problems when delivered.

Bottom line this delayed sales - big time! Use me as an example. I was looking at the 14" LX200 until I saw the ads for the LX800. As a result I totally delayed my purchase. Then when I was going to pull the trigger on the LX800, I saw the LX600 - that is what I wanted! So I delayed more. Then the LX800 debacle began and the LX600 was delayed. After going back and forth and then seeing the specs on the LX850 when it was announced, I went with that. Think about it - this ended up being a 2+ year delay in doing a major purchase (and all the added goodies from Meade). How many folks out there were like me? Like I said before, it seems like a tactic (way too early pre-announcement) in the Asto-biz. I am not big on it. Apple is VERY careful when they make a product announcement, and it is not made way early (worst case is what? 4 months in hardware and 1 year on software due to all the SW beta testing by developers). That is why many Apple buffs have to go to the rumor sites to figure out what MAYBE Apple's next step is.

Yes, I am optimistic about Meade. I see a lot of potential. Why would Sunny drop $5+ million, $250k for JOC fees, and be willing to sink in even more money? For the fun of it? Do you guys truly believe this is a futile exercise?

Also, Rich is also correct - you won't see Meade be owned by a non-Chinese company likely every again.

And my bad. The Chinese government has no real close involvement with businesses in China. China is one of the most free business climates in the world. It is highly unlikely there is any connection between the firm purchasing Meade and Chinese officials. In China they have an amazing and wide open system of obtaining loans (so easy to borrow and refinance!), excellent monetary policy and a well managed central bank. We need to learn from them! See those wonderful cities they are building! This new owner has massive flexibility. At least the Meade IP will never see its way to the PLA, whew!

BTW, I guess I don't mind the company is in China. It is a fact of life. Plus it does subsidize our field.

Also, it sounds like if I read everything correctly, no new tooling was developed for the LX600 and LX850. They can work with the old tooling easily. Plus the LX600 is so 1990s, gosh!

Well back to work! My new 80mm APO, Telegizmos Cover, and Meade 8.8mm Series 5000 UWA ep is waiting for me (I am right now flying home at 38,000'), and tomorrow I pick up my new, "used" (3 year old) LXD75 mount. Now if the skies can only clear up! (I know, I know, we need the rain badly in New Mexico!).

Whew...vent is off...


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Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5976946 - 07/17/13 10:44 PM

....OH...one more thing!

Everyone suggests Meade needs to pair back their product line.

Question - I looked at Celestron's offering and they have a complex cornucopia of products, which can be down right confusing for some folks. I see the question always in CN "which Celestron to get" - and I see so many different permutations! Should Celestron maybe reduce their product line too? Make it less confusing?


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5976950 - 07/17/13 10:49 PM

Quote:

A company from China is ponying up a lot of money. They seem to do mostly low end telescopes.




When the same scenario played out w.r.t. Celestron it seemed to come out OK. Didn't result in lower technology, either - Celestron's higher-end gear continued to evolve.


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greedyshark
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/31/05

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5976978 - 07/17/13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Edd and Bic,

OK, so if someone gave you $1 billion and said, "Go do something with Meade," what would you do?

-Rich




I don't know about him, but I'd throw a big party for whoever remains on the staff, hand out some lovely bonus checks, and head for the Caribbean.




...with a couple of scopes in the overhead. I'm sorry folks, I just can't see Meade pulling out of this one.

Charles


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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5976987 - 07/17/13 11:09 PM

One difference with Celestron is that when they were bought by Synta, they went up against a financially weakened Meade and really ripped out a lot of their market share in the higher end scopes as well as other optics (again, this is pretty easily derived from Meade's 10-K's over the past decade, and measured against the point where Celestron was purchased by Synta).

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.

Edited by bicparker (07/17/13 11:15 PM)


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Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5977003 - 07/17/13 11:16 PM

Quote:

One difference with Celestron is that when they were bought by Synta, they went up against a weakened Meade and really ripped out a lot of their market share in the higher end scopes as well as other optics (again, this is pretty easily derived from Meade's 10-K's over the past decade, and measured against the point where Celestron was purchased by Synta).

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.






Though I would contend the LX850 and the LX600 is better than Celestron's offering.

I feeling grouchy right now...

I need some bacon and humus (with Pita Chips). Not happening at 37,987'...


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greedyshark
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/31/05

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5977006 - 07/17/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.




Exactly. That is why I say I can't see them coming out of this. And yes, I believe SOI is purchasing Meade for the name. Christmas is coming...

Charles


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nitegeezer
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/27/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: greedyshark]
      #5977019 - 07/17/13 11:29 PM

I admit my memory is not the best, but I don't think buying a company just for the name has been a good business practice in the past. I have to believe that something else is brewing as buying just the name is probably not worth the headaches.

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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5977020 - 07/17/13 11:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One difference with Celestron is that when they were bought by Synta, they went up against a weakened Meade and really ripped out a lot of their market share in the higher end scopes as well as other optics (again, this is pretty easily derived from Meade's 10-K's over the past decade, and measured against the point where Celestron was purchased by Synta).

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.




Though I would contend the LX850 and the LX600 is better than Celestron's offering.





Doesn't matter that the products are better. Meade has to sell better. They will still have to convince the market that these are better products to the point that they buy those products instead of others at a pretty high rate.


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nitegeezer
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/27/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: nitegeezer]
      #5977025 - 07/17/13 11:32 PM

Just as I was posting, I also thought of the "big Christmas market" and most of those buyers don't care about a name, they look at the price and any attention getting packaging like a 60mm scope good to 450x.

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Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5977038 - 07/17/13 11:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

One difference with Celestron is that when they were bought by Synta, they went up against a weakened Meade and really ripped out a lot of their market share in the higher end scopes as well as other optics (again, this is pretty easily derived from Meade's 10-K's over the past decade, and measured against the point where Celestron was purchased by Synta).

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.




Though I would contend the LX850 and the LX600 is better than Celestron's offering.





Doesn't matter that the products are better. Meade has to sell better. They will still have to convince the market that these are better products to the point that they buy those products instead of others at a pretty high rate.





I agree - marketing has to go beyond the nice glossy ads.

Maybe YouTube Videos, expansion on FB, get folks out to clubs to show the units off, maybe an "evangelist" or two demoing and getting the word out (my Apple roots are showing up there).

Oh, and win the dealers back. Like I said earlier, one dealer would not sell me the LX850; well he was pushing me away and not helping me with the order (long story). He WAS determined to sell me the CGEPro 1400 HD. I bailed after 2-3 weeks, went to another dealer and they made it happen - quick.


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Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: nitegeezer]
      #5977040 - 07/17/13 11:37 PM

Quote:

Just as I was posting, I also thought of the "big Christmas market" and most of those buyers don't care about a name, they look at the price and any attention getting packaging like a 60mm scope good to 450x.




Not only work at 450x, but ALSO be able to see a MILLION miles away! That will move those 60mm scopes!


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5977050 - 07/17/13 11:41 PM

Hi:

I just want to thanks David and Edd for taking the time to discuss the financial side of what has been happening at Meade and to Meade.

As amateur astronomers, we see the mistakes Meade has made and we tend to think these are the cause of their current problems. But from what David and Edd (and others) have said, it seems most likely that these mistakes are simply the symptoms of a company in extreme financial distress making a last gasp, hoping against hope that they can pull it out.

It wasn't that they didn't know it was unwise to send out a new product with limited testing and QC, rather, they simply had no choice, no opportunity to do it the right way, the way they would have liked to have done it.

We can discuss the problems with the mounts and the marketing but something else was going on that caused all this.

Jon


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greedyshark
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 10/31/05

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: nitegeezer]
      #5977062 - 07/17/13 11:46 PM

Quote:

Just as I was posting, I also thought of the "big Christmas market" and most of those buyers don't care about a name, they look at the price and any attention getting packaging like a 60mm scope good to 450x.




Price will be cheap...packaging will show the Martian landscape...the "New SOI Meade 60mm...Powerful 450X!!" Perhaps SOI is attempting to penetrate the high-end scope market...but there are easier ways with much less risk.

Charles


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5977073 - 07/17/13 11:54 PM

Quote:

A revived Meade won't have such a luxury. They will have a fairly strong set of competitors.




But they'll also have a loyal customer base already in place. Plenty of us are dismayed by Meades troubles, and will happily continue to buy products from them if they are rescued. (Assuming the new owners try to keep the quality high.)
I have three Meade telescopes, all of which are terrific. I'd go Meade again.


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