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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mark379]
      #5981762 - 07/20/13 05:37 PM

That's a new thread.

-Rich


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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starman1]
      #5982330 - 07/21/13 01:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Synta's headquarters is not in Taiwan. They are located in Jiangsu not far from Shanghai.



Rod,
You're correct. Their office in Taiwan is merely an office for trade reasons.
Sorry for my mistake.



From what I can find, the Taiwan office and corporation was set up first, as Synta Technology Corp, in 1982. STC was founded by a David Shen, who, within a couple of years, secured manufacturing in China. "Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd" says they manufacture the brand names Skywatcher and Acuter, and, on the same page, say it was founded in 1992 in one place, and 1998 in another. Celestron is owned by SW Technology Corp, a subsidiary of STC in Taiwan.

So is the corporation in Taiwan a front set up from the beginning (30 years ago) only as a front for distributing Chinese goods and labeling them "Made in Taiwan"?


So this is incorrect or has changed:

Quote:

Synta is based in Taiwan, but has subsidiaries all over.

Synta Technology Corporation:

Business Owner: Dazhong Shen, a/k/a David Shen. David Shen, a mechanical
engineer and optical designer, founded Synta Technology Corporation of
Taiwan (Synta Taiwan) about 1980. Synta and Celestron have been
conducting business together for 20 years.

Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd. was established in 1992 in
Suzhou, Jiangsu, China (outside Shanghai) by Synta Taiwan and Canadian
investors. It has 552 employees and a workshop of 26,000 square meters.
They design and manufacture optical components, telescopes and assorted
optical-electronic products which are exported to Europe and the USA.
The company has advanced equipment, such as multi-coating machines,
interference meters (Zygo brand), collimators and other instruments
which are used for manufacturing optical products. It owns two well
known brands:

Celestron: purchased in 2005 by SW Technology Corporation, a Delaware
company and affiliate of Synta Taiwan.

Sky-Watcher: Sky-Watcher USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Synta
Taiwan. In 2008 SW Technology Corporation, along with Synta Taiwan
announced the addition of Sky-Watcher USA to its product offering. Prior
to this the Sky-Watcher brand was not sold here.




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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5982343 - 07/21/13 01:54 AM

I've tried to puzzle this out before, along with things like why Synta was competing with itself as four different brand names at the same time.

That part I can't claim to have succeeded at, other than to note it has given them a lot of market penetration. The other part is to really wonder when someone suggests they might be behind one or more Meade buyout attempts.

-Rich


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5982385 - 07/21/13 02:47 AM

I don't think Meade has anything that Synta wants.

They may have been competition once but now I think they will be more concerned about iOptron.
I don't think Meade has any IP that Synta needs, they have their own.
They don't need the manufacturing capacity.
Or the distribution network.
Or the R&D people.

What's left? The name and the goodwill?

As for competition being good, that depends.
If companies compete by trying to deliver better value then yes. But if they compete by increasing the business costs of their rivals that isn't.

Chris


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5982397 - 07/21/13 03:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Synta's headquarters is not in Taiwan. They are located in Jiangsu not far from Shanghai.



Rod,
You're correct. Their office in Taiwan is merely an office for trade reasons.
Sorry for my mistake.



From what I can find, the Taiwan office and corporation was set up first, as Synta Technology Corp, in 1982. STC was founded by a David Shen, who, within a couple of years, secured manufacturing in China. "Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd" says they manufacture the brand names Skywatcher and Acuter, and, on the same page, say it was founded in 1992 in one place, and 1998 in another. Celestron is owned by SW Technology Corp, a subsidiary of STC in Taiwan.

So is the corporation in Taiwan a front set up from the beginning (30 years ago) only as a front for distributing Chinese goods and labeling them "Made in Taiwan"?


So this is incorrect or has changed:

Quote:

Synta is based in Taiwan, but has subsidiaries all over.

Synta Technology Corporation:

Business Owner: Dazhong Shen, a/k/a David Shen. David Shen, a mechanical
engineer and optical designer, founded Synta Technology Corporation of
Taiwan (Synta Taiwan) about 1980. Synta and Celestron have been
conducting business together for 20 years.

Suzhou Synta Optical Technology Co., Ltd. was established in 1992 in
Suzhou, Jiangsu, China (outside Shanghai) by Synta Taiwan and Canadian
investors. It has 552 employees and a workshop of 26,000 square meters.
They design and manufacture optical components, telescopes and assorted
optical-electronic products which are exported to Europe and the USA.
The company has advanced equipment, such as multi-coating machines,
interference meters (Zygo brand), collimators and other instruments
which are used for manufacturing optical products. It owns two well
known brands:

Celestron: purchased in 2005 by SW Technology Corporation, a Delaware
company and affiliate of Synta Taiwan.

Sky-Watcher: Sky-Watcher USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Synta
Taiwan. In 2008 SW Technology Corporation, along with Synta Taiwan
announced the addition of Sky-Watcher USA to its product offering. Prior
to this the Sky-Watcher brand was not sold here.






The info is correct, but the office in Taiwan is now just an office and the company is more or less located on the mainland now.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: cn register 5]
      #5982454 - 07/21/13 05:59 AM

Quote:


I don't think Meade has anything that Synta wants.




Actually I think they do, patents. In particular there is a patent that prevents Synta/Celestron GOTO mounts from tracking until after it is aligned, something like that anyway. I believe there was a court case over this particular feature and Meade won.

I am sure there are other patents that Synta would like to get their hands on.

Jon


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982485 - 07/21/13 07:00 AM

I think you mean the patent on a terrestial starting position for alt az alignment, aka North and Level. It only affects Celestron and they have an alternative way to do this.

IIRC Meade didn't win, they kept loosing and appealing until Celestron agreed terms - about the same time as they abandoned this method.

I'm sure Meade has other patents but I don't think that anyone needs them, for example the alignment processes used in the LS mounts are implemented differently in the SkyProdigy mounts.

Chris


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: cn register 5]
      #5982490 - 07/21/13 07:07 AM

Quote:


I think you mean the patent on a terrestial starting position for alt az alignment, aka North and Level. It only affects Celestron and they have an alternative way to do this.




From what I have read, it's not as nice as one would hope.

Jon


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982611 - 07/21/13 09:14 AM

Quote:



Actually I think they do, patents. In particular there is a patent that prevents Synta/Celestron GOTO mounts from tracking until after it is aligned, something like that anyway. I believe there was a court case over this particular feature and Meade won.

I am sure there are other patents that Synta would like to get their hands on.

Jon




Kinda sorta. Meade holds a patent on pointing north and leveling during go-to alignment (believe it or not). However, Celestron's alt-az mounts never tracked until the alignment was done. My NexStar 11, produced before the court case, doesn't. Would Celestron like to go back to "north and level"? Maybe, maybe not. What they have now works fine.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982615 - 07/21/13 09:19 AM

Quote:



From what I have read, it's not as nice as one would hope.

Jon




What is "nice"? The Meade system does automatically go-to two stars for alignment without user intervention. The most commonly used Celestron alignment method requires you to manually point at a star. When that is centered, the mount automatically chooses and goes to a second star. Yes, you have to point at that first star, but you don't have to wait while the scope finds north and levels, either.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starman1]
      #5982616 - 07/21/13 09:20 AM

Quote:

The info is correct, but the office in Taiwan is now just an office and the company is more or less located on the mainland now.




Hi Don: Yep...the Synta story is convoluted and confusing, that's for sure.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5982679 - 07/21/13 10:10 AM

Quote:

Kinda sorta. Meade holds a patent on pointing north and leveling during go-to alignment (believe it or not). However, Celestron's alt-az mounts never tracked until the alignment was done. My NexStar 11, produced before the court case, doesn't. Would Celestron like to go back to "north and level"? Maybe, maybe not. What they have now works fine.




As you know, I do not normally use GOTO scopes but I do own an original Nexstar 5 and it does point at the first star. In this day and age of automated, GPS equipped GOTO scopes, it seems incongruous that the observer is required to do something as difficult as actually point the scope at a particular star. /2 (only half kidding)

I would have to imagine that were they given the opportunity, Celestron would prefer like to go back to the old system.

Jon


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982813 - 07/21/13 11:27 AM

The most common one now is the all-star alignment where you just point at three of anything. With the number of people I have known who could not find north to save their lives, it's probably about as good.

With that said, mini star trackers would appear to own the future. And there Celestron has their own.

IOptron has their own setup and so do Astro Physics, SB, Losmandy, and Orion/ Synta. So, it isn't like GOTO IP is especially rare, now. Maybe David Shen would want to bury a competitor once and for all? I've never heard anything to support that as a likely motivation for action. Any adult should know that kind of behavior tends to come full circle.

However, I can imagine someone thinking they'll gain some halo products for the trainloads of department store scopes they are making.

-Rich


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5982899 - 07/21/13 12:06 PM

Do the fork alt/az operate differently than the GEMs. Seems so from the posts I have read about the CPCs.

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
*****

Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Stew57]
      #5982913 - 07/21/13 12:15 PM

Quote:

Do the fork alt/az operate differently than the GEMs. Seems so from the posts I have read about the CPCs.




The alt/az forkmounts can't automatically slew to the first alignment star from a level and north position. That's the bit that infringed on Meade's patents. They can either be manually slewed to the first star in 2 star alignment mode or can use the new Skyalign, in which they are manually slewed to three objects. The EQ mounts aren't subject to this ("level" is an alt/az concept) and can slew to the first alignment star (though they can't use Skyalign; that's an alt/az concept).


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982931 - 07/21/13 12:29 PM

Quote:



As you know, I do not normally use GOTO scopes but I do own an original Nexstar 5 and it does point at the first star. In this day and age of automated, GPS equipped GOTO scopes, it seems incongruous that the observer is required to do something as difficult as actually point the scope at a particular star. /2 (only half kidding)

I would have to imagine that were they given the opportunity, Celestron would prefer like to go back to the old system.

Jon




Maybe...they have SkyAlign as well.

GPS only gives you position and time. It doesn't know a thing about direction unless the receiver is moving. You'd look pretty funny running around the field with your scope.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5982974 - 07/21/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:



As you know, I do not normally use GOTO scopes but I do own an original Nexstar 5 and it does point at the first star. In this day and age of automated, GPS equipped GOTO scopes, it seems incongruous that the observer is required to do something as difficult as actually point the scope at a particular star. /2 (only half kidding)

I would have to imagine that were they given the opportunity, Celestron would prefer like to go back to the old system.

Jon




Maybe...they have SkyAlign as well.

GPS only gives you position and time. It doesn't know a thing about direction unless the receiver is moving. You'd look pretty funny running around the field with your scope.




All kidding aside, Meade has it down, my old Nexstar 5 had it down, level and point north, that's pretty straight forward.

Three stars manually pointed to, I have been alongside first time GOTOers who spent an evening trying to align their scope on the wrong star.

Normally I would have asked if they everything was fine but a couple of young couples, it seemed best to keep my distance. It was only as I was packing up to leave that they asked my to help them...

Bottom line: I think there are probably patents and proprietary technologies, Synta would like to have.

Jon


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5982979 - 07/21/13 01:05 PM

That's the beauty of SkyAlign. No need to know which star is which, just center three stars. Even planets will do.

But, yeah, there are probably Meade designs and patents Synta wouldn't mind having. The absence of a competitor is probably the most valuable thing, though.

Edited by rmollise (07/21/13 01:08 PM)


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5982983 - 07/21/13 01:07 PM

They can't be the same thing 3 times- anything you can get with eyeballing will do.

-Rich


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5982985 - 07/21/13 01:11 PM

Quote:

They can't be the same thing 3 times- anything you can get with eyeballing will do.

-Rich




Not sure what you mean by "same thing three times." Yes, they have to be three separate objects. The first two should be well separated, and the third shouldn't be along a line connecting the other two...other than that...very simple and works well.

Edited by rmollise (07/21/13 01:12 PM)


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