Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

Pages: << 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | >> (show all)
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988671 - 07/24/13 10:51 PM

Despite everything that has been said and with the reversals, from what I hear there is still a crack in the door that gives JOC/ES a chance they can pull it off. This has to do with how far the FTC wants to go with their investigation into whether or not Sunny and Synta are working together on this. If the FTC doesn't want to be bothered then Meade is a gonner. If they step up and do their jobs then the Sunny offer is gone and that just leaves JOC/ES.

Fingers crossed.

Edit: I realize I wasn't very clear by what I meant when I said gonner.

If Sunny and Synta are working together, which some evidence I've heard seems to indicate they are, then they will tear Meade apart after shipping every piece of property to China. Synta will buy up or be *cough* given the IPs and that is that. Meade is gone.

If JOC/ES gets it they will actually make a real go at saving Meade. Obviously our best option and best long term risk for stock holders. If I was a stock holder I would be willing to gamble on JOC/ES simply because I would have already lost so much money I would want to risk getting more of it back rather than sell and get out.

Unfortunately the stock holders are not privy to the information that we know here on CN. Or at least not enough of them to make a difference in the vote.



Edited by Whichwayisnorth (07/24/13 10:59 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bigj]
      #5988675 - 07/24/13 10:53 PM

Quote:

With Meade going privet we will see an increase in price that is for sure. If they are liquidated by Celestron we will see a huge increase in prices.




I kind of doubt that. There is only so much the market itself can bare and not substantially decrease sales, especially in a bad economy. As others have pointed out, a number of companies have gone under over time and yet the actual cost of many astronomy systems has remained relatively steady while the technology has improved. A monopoly which this wouldn't really be) is not always a guarantee of higher prices if the market will not bare them. There are still a number of companies out there and if one starts to substantially raise prices, others will either jump in to compete or lower prices in response.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988677 - 07/24/13 10:54 PM

Diebel is way older than I am (68). I have to think he's disappointed with the fate of his creation, but I can't see that he'd have the energy needed to right this capsizing ship, were he even interested. The discussions here are amusing. Some people seem to think there's still some chance of Meade's survival. Meade is toast. A year from now, you'll only read about Meade in the Classic Telescopes forum.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5988684 - 07/24/13 11:00 PM

Toes too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bigj
member


Reged: 05/07/13

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988689 - 07/24/13 11:06 PM

No their not unfortunately

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Calypte]
      #5988703 - 07/24/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

Diebel is way older than I am (68). I have to think he's disappointed with the fate of his creation, but I can't see that he'd have the energy needed to right this capsizing ship, were he even interested. The discussions here are amusing. Some people seem to think there's still some chance of Meade's survival. Meade is toast. A year from now, you'll only read about Meade in the Classic Telescopes forum.




From what I read in this thread, Meade as it is now configured would seem to be toast. But the name, the scopes, the eyepieces, the mount, they may still maintain some semblance of togetherness.

As far as prices, it's hard to say. SCT prices might go up but SCTs are competing against other types of scopes already and it seems that at this point Meade has not been very effective as competition so things may not change much.

On the other hand, it maybe that Synta/Celestron and even ES have been pricing their products with the idea of finishing Meade off so that with Meade gone, prices will rise.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Katz
member
*****

Reged: 04/09/12

Loc: West Carrollton, OH
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988724 - 07/24/13 11:33 PM

Just out of curiosity, and not trying to get anyone stirred up, but... Meade ten years ago wasn't the company it was when it started. Although I didn't have a Meade scope at the time, I still kept up with the goings-on. Their quality was in the crapper ten years ago according to reviews and comments in the community back then. I'm not referring to "Meade and Celestron Magazine", as I refer to S&T.

Honestly speaking, I've two things to say:

If it had been reasonably priced ($2,500 +/-$500), I might have considered the LX800 GM mount. But the constant vaporware and hype made me go away, especially at the price. The price was/is nuts. Especially with my experiences with their customer service and quality. Couldn't do it. For that price, I'll buy a Paramount or AP1200 for an extra thousand bucks.

For the Meade owners that love them - no trolling here. By all means, enjoy them. But if the breakup and possible elimination of Meade gets rid of the poor management, quality issues, and brings focus back to customer service, won't you be a lot happier? The brand may very well go away. But honestly speaking, would you be worse off tomorrow than you are today with your hardware? Even 10 years ago, if you had a problem and tried to resolve it, you wouldn't get much more customer service than you do now. But if broken up and parted out, there might just be new life put back in that old unit of yours, or the next best thing might just come from a former Meade engineer working for someone who actually knows which end of the telescope the light comes in at.

I don't deny that their "firsts" in the industry were impressive. That's why I kept after that first LX200 I had that was a pile of junk. I saved for 3 years to buy that scope. The reward for my efforts turned out to be that CG9.25 with Losmandy DSC's.

My personal opinion is that you'll be better off in the long run if Meade is broken. It may create the phoenix from the fire. Just my opinion.

Kev


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5988736 - 07/24/13 11:40 PM

Gday Starrancher

Quote:

Hey ! Where you been Mate ?




It was night down here when you wrote that soooo.


Actually, Crikey originated from the Poms,
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Etymology-Meaning-Words-1474/English-Aussie-Slang.htm
be we were quite happy to steal it.
I reckon the spelling was changed so as not to allow the church
to make too close a link and hence ban it.
( Or thay just spelt funny bak in ye olde England back then )

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988759 - 07/25/13 12:00 AM

Quote:


I'm looking forward to getting up to Flagstaff next week myself. But I'm sure there won't be much of a chance for clear skies, less I don't bring a scope along.




Flagstaff!? I was just up in Bull Head/Havasu/Mojave doing another hobby. Ah Flagstaff.. wonderful snow hobby town too..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5988762 - 07/25/13 12:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hopefully I'll be lucky enough to get great longevity out of my mounts . But if my good ol' LXD75s ever fail me , I certainly hope Ed will give me a good deal cause I be po .

Crikey !




I had to look up Fort Rock, AZ and Google pointed me to the middle of nowhere up north. Great location for dark skies! I'm looking forward to getting up to Flagstaff next week myself. But I'm sure there won't be much of a chance for clear skies, less I don't bring a scope along.




Yep Ed . It's in the middle of nowhere alright . I'm 40 miles east of Kingman and 30 miles west of Seligman , five miles from the nearest piece of pavement . Skies are borderline Bortle 1 and 2 or Gray to Black . Monsoons hit us late this year as they didnt want to come this far west , but now they're here .
I'd still maybe sneek up a pair of Binos just in case . Just make sure you keep 'em hidden good .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5988776 - 07/25/13 12:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I'm looking forward to getting up to Flagstaff next week myself. But I'm sure there won't be much of a chance for clear skies, less I don't bring a scope along.




Flagstaff!? I was just up in Bull Head/Havasu/Mojave doing another hobby. Ah Flagstaff.. wonderful snow hobby town too..




Bulkhead ! ? .... That's a hobby town for me too . It's the hobby of pulling building materials . That town has reaped a lot of revenue out of me . (Lowes) That's why I be so po .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pfile
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/14/09

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5988820 - 07/25/13 12:40 AM

them diagonals and eyepieces are backordered 8 ways till sunday! i wonder if they will ever fulfill the order. oh well.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5988827 - 07/25/13 12:50 AM

Whoa...

I disappear for meetings and my daughter's birthday party, and see the drama emails pop up on my iPhone! Too many to respond to! You folks were clearly busy and had a lot on your mind!

So let me keep this on "on topic".

I am REALLY suspicious of the Sunny deal. It smells. I sense the Empire, er Synta/Celestron, behind this.

If I understand things, Sunny did loan money to Meade, the company they want to buy. It almost sounds like loaning to yourself. Maybe, the concept is if another buyer comes through or the deal falls through they are then owed the money. It is a curious arrangement.

My gut tells me a call was made to the FTC, and the FTC is fully aware of this deal. Something actually might happen sooner vs. later. And then this message board will get exciting.

If the FTC calls off the deal, then Meade will be on the hook for these loans.

Enter ES/JOC, again. This time the purchase value might be lower.

Or Meade goes bankrupt - and someone or some firm buys them out in bankruptcy. The IP still has value, the name still has value. Actually, it is a cheap way to purchase the IP and facilities and not have to worry about paying the share holders, the loans/notes, and the officers' golden parachutes. Interesting concept...purchase price for $1M maybe, and $5M - $10M to turn it around at the most.

Thoughts?

And play nice...

No name calling kids...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Alph
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/23/06

Loc: Melmac
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mclewis1]
      #5988842 - 07/25/13 12:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

On a potentially ironic note, if Meade actually goes all the way to Bankruptcy, if Spacetravelerx has a problem with his LX850, Ed's about the only person he'll be able to call.



Rich, That irony wasn't lost on everyone. I'm glad you put it in the thread ... I needed a good chuckle.




I am sure that Spacetravelerx would be able to lubricate the mount all by himself.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5988846 - 07/25/13 01:02 AM

Re
Quote:

some firm buys them out in bankruptcy. The IP still has value,




Just for info, when it comes to IP and patents etc in the US,
who owns the IP????
Ie John Hoot wrote a lot of the initial Austostar code via his company.
I just found this quicky report
http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/John_E_Hoot_1.html
which shows his name is on? ( referenced) a lot in some of the patents
tied to Meades products, (and recently as well).
Soooo, who really "owns" it ?????

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5988858 - 07/25/13 01:09 AM

Well, for starters it was a guy from ES/ JOC who called several folks to put the David Shen/ Sunny story out and suggest the FTC should be interested.

No real telling what any of that's all about. It's pretty clear MITC didn't think the company was worth more than $3.65/ share, so there seems to be a consensus on very low value here- we're talking substantively less value than a car dealership at this point. So, I'm not sure where the motivation is to get into something which, in a wildly optimistic scenario, has the demonstrated potential to absorb vast amounts of attention and reward you with a 4% rate of return.

It would make more sense to spend the money opening a few laundromats.

-Rich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5988860 - 07/25/13 01:11 AM

Quote:

Re
Quote:

some firm buys them out in bankruptcy. The IP still has value,




Just for info, when it comes to IP and patents etc in the US,
who owns the IP????
Ie John Hoot wrote a lot of the initial Austostar code via his company.
I just found this quicky report
http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/John_E_Hoot_1.html
which shows his name is on? ( referenced) a lot in some of the patents
tied to Meades products, (and recently as well).
Soooo, who really "owns" it ?????

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia





Very interesting! Very interesting! Thank you for the info. Always learn something on this message board!

I see he is also a Michigan grad like me!

Of course we don't know if he shares in the IP or not regarding the Software. But it does match a name to the software.

I might give this guy a call.

Of course there is other IP I am guessing - ACF optics, Starlock, Coronado goodies. There has to be something there.


Very, very interesting!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Alph]
      #5988862 - 07/25/13 01:12 AM

Dude, you really haven't been keeping up.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

On a potentially ironic note, if Meade actually goes all the way to Bankruptcy, if Spacetravelerx has a problem with his LX850, Ed's about the only person he'll be able to call.



Rich, That irony wasn't lost on everyone. I'm glad you put it in the thread ... I needed a good chuckle.




I am sure that Spacetravelerx would be able to lubricate the mount all by himself.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Spacetravelerx
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5988864 - 07/25/13 01:15 AM

Quote:

Well, for starters it was a guy from ES/ JOC who called several folks to put the David Shen/ Sunny story out and suggest the FTC should be interested.

No real telling what any of that's all about. It's pretty clear MITC didn't think the company was worth more than $3.65/ share, so there seems to be a consensus on very low value here- we're talking substantively less value than a car dealership at this point. So, I'm not sure where the motivation is to get into something which, in a wildly optimistic scenario, has the demonstrated potential to absorb vast amounts of attention and reward you with a 4% rate of return.

It would make more sense to spend the money opening a few laundromats.

-Rich





Though purchasing Meade at a low price could bring some capacity/IP/capabilities to a company that wants to leverage if for a large contract/project. The astronomy sales would be a fun side hobby.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5988875 - 07/25/13 01:27 AM

OzAndrew,

Crikey, that's an interesting find!

The "IP" can be two basic forms- publicly disclosed- such as patents and trademarks, which can be bought, sold, licensed, or bartered like real property. The patents have a finite life, and they basically exist because the government wants information propagated, and a 20 year wait isn't a big deal from their perspective.

The other part is not publicly disclosed "Proprietary" information. So, you may be able to reverse engineer the product, the actual data package making it belongs to the manufacturer. This also is a sellable product, and it's actually quite common for US companies to buy and sell product lines between each other. Unlike a patent, you can't sue someone for duplicating what is in your proprietary data package. However, if you have a secret recipe for part of it, this can be a trade secret, which is a piece of your proprietary information you consistently keep secret. So, lots of nondisclosure agreements get written to allow companies to talk to each other for that reason.

Anyway, if Meade is actually licensing large blocks of IP from third parties, that would vastly reduce the value of the company.

-Rich

Quote:

Re
Quote:

some firm buys them out in bankruptcy. The IP still has value,




Just for info, when it comes to IP and patents etc in the US,
who owns the IP????
Ie John Hoot wrote a lot of the initial Austostar code via his company.
I just found this quicky report
http://patent.ipexl.com/inventor/John_E_Hoot_1.html
which shows his name is on? ( referenced) a lot in some of the patents
tied to Meades products, (and recently as well).
Soooo, who really "owns" it ?????

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: << 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | >> (show all)


Extra information
11 registered and 22 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Starman27, kkokkolis 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 64009

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics