Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

Pages: << 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | >> (show all)
bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5994875 - 07/28/13 02:43 PM

Most of those Meade ads were probably already paid for long ago (a year or more).

Major anchor advertisements in a magazine such as the back cover and inside covers are typically sold as part of an annual package of ad sales requiring so many column inches or and/or full and half pages of coverage each issue and with a significant pre-payment (if not the whole bill). Ad layouts for those major sections of the magazine are generally already booked 6 months prior to publication, though last minute inserts or changes can typically be made around 1 month before the magazine is mailed out (this depends upon the arrangements with the magazine's printer and their capabilities). Magazines that don't follow this sort of long term arrangement don't do well, otherwise.

Usually, the magazines have a 12 month (or more) skeleton that is used to sell ads. For instance, if a magazine is doing issues on refractors in April, mounts in July, and eyepieces in October, then they would use that information to help a prospective vendor (with those product line specialties) plan their advertising accordingly and get contracts from the vendor to advertise for those months under a promotional price. The magazine would also likely require that they keep so many column inches of ad space in other months. The prime ad spaces require even more significant contractual and payment requirements from the vendors, since to lose those could tank the looks of a magazine. All in all, this forces many magazines to operate with a a 12 month or longer window.

Perennial anchor advertisers like Meade may have longer than annual arrangements simply so they don't lose their spots. A few years ago, Meade decided to reduce their advertising significantly (this was around when they had a previous financial crunch, received a qualified going concern opinion, and were saved by a white knight). They essentially lost their spots (and never really got some of them back) on the inside end pages for S&T and Astronomy, which Televue and a few others have since occupied. Meade has the back cover for S&T, at least for now, but they paid considerably for it, I am certain. Keeping these prime advertising spots is a multi-year process and after their last fiasco in losing those pages, I am imagine they have done whatever they can to keep at least some presence in the magazines. Otherwise, there are several other advertisers with cash (iOptron, Celestron, et al) who will jump into those spots when they become available.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5994886 - 07/28/13 02:47 PM

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







My experience is that business managers who have to sign the checks and put out the balance sheets don't get their understanding of how the company is doing from their ad copy.

Do you know senior managers at Meade who formed their opinion of how Meade was doing from their ad copy?

Sounds farfetched to me.

Or was that just a way to slam Meade management, again?

Lots of real world reasons for Meade's problems, claiming they stem from reading their own ad copy is foolish.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ColoHank
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: western Colorado
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5994896 - 07/28/13 02:52 PM

Starhawk gets it. Monument is a metaphor for all of the smoke and mirrors Meade created toward the end to fool others (and in the process, to fool itself). And no, Meade wasn't an institution like Harvard or Princeton. They're credible and reputable institutions with long histories of delivering what they promise. The word institution has many connotations and thus doesn't refer solely to the academy. Even a practice or an individual can be considered an institution. In the realm of backyard astronomy, Meade was an institution.

Parkinson's observation that "Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves" is applicable to so many entities and situations that it might be considered a universal truth.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
The Ardent
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: ColoHank]
      #5994926 - 07/28/13 03:06 PM

More like the past 30 years. The ads- perception creates reality.

Quote:

Starhawk gets it. Monument is a metaphor for all of the smoke and mirrors Meade created toward the end to fool others (and in the process, to fool itself).




Study the history:
Cave newt >>> Meade Starfinder (Crown Optics in 1981???)
Coulter Dob >>> Meade Starfinder Dob
Televue Nagler >>> Meade UWA 4000
Televue Widefield >>> Meade SWA 4000
Televue Plossl >>> Meade Super Plossl
Astropysics refractor >>> Meade ED refractor
Celestron SCT >>> Meade SCT
Questar 7 >>> Meade 7 Mak (the best scope they made ever)
Questar 90 >>> Meade ETX
OGS and other high end RC >>> Meade "RC"
Questar and Unitron ads in S&T >>> Meade multipage ads

The ads were the one thing Meade excelled at by far. You cant deny the attraction, the layout, the organization.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: The Ardent]
      #5994961 - 07/28/13 03:29 PM

When it came time to buy my first telescope I could only remember two names. Meade and Celestron. I had to struggle to remember Celestron though.

When I went to each of their respective web sites and read about their latest offerings I was sold on the Celestron and that ended up being my first quality system. Meade's marketing of their LX800 system eventually swayed me to buy it as my second *cough* quality system.

Ads work. The argument I've made many times in the past is that I would have reduced the size and expense of my magazine ads and did some mass marketing and tv ads aimed more at those who don't buy astronomy or telescope magazines or who have never bought a telescope before. Not many seem to agree with me though.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mayidunk
Don't Ask...
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Betwixt & Between...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5994970 - 07/28/13 03:35 PM

Back when my interest in astronomy was starting to resurge, I remember reading the Meade ads in either Astronomy, or Sky & Telescope magazine (or both!), and being impressed at what they had to offer. I think the large, GEM mounted Research Grade Newtonians were probably the most impressive to me back then. Especially seeing the photos of guys in lab coats! Those images lent a certain gravitas to the ads that indicated an attitude of no-nonsense, solidly engineered quality, which inferred that they weren't just mere "telescopes," but that they were, in fact, solid instruments of real science! Alas, it turns out that they may not have been exactly what they appeared to be... At least not in the photos, anyway. But, that's OK.

I once worked for a company that, in the late '50's, and through the '60s, ran ads in trade magazines that contained photos of guys in lab coats carrying clipboards, adjusting and testing rotary tables that they manufactured for the machine tool industry! Back then they had one of the first ever clean rooms, which they used for assembling and testing laboratory grade aerospace equipment that they were also manufacturing for NASA, the military, and the aerospace industry!

By the time I started working there in the late '70s, there wasn't a lab coat to be found, never mind a lab! Before I started working there, they had received a small, laboratory grade rotary sine table with hydralic tilt, and digital readouts (Using Inductosyn transducers, and Nixie Tubes!), that had been sent back to them by one of the major aerospace companies for recalibration, and recertification, traceable back to what used to be the National Bureau of Standards! Anyway, by the time I started working there, that rotary sine table was already in a "million" pieces, with parts in boxes, or literally dumped onto shelves, scattered all over the shop, without any hope of ever being reassembled, nevermind ever being recertified!

The vicissitudes of life, and of business.

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







Edited by mayidunk (07/28/13 03:57 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: The Ardent]
      #5994993 - 07/28/13 03:47 PM

What struck me about the Meade adverts was how little technical content there was.

I remember the launch of the LS scopes, things such as the weight and obstruction size weren't specified, at least not until after they were in the hands of customers.

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mayidunk
Don't Ask...
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Betwixt & Between...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mayidunk]
      #5995005 - 07/28/13 03:54 PM

Both Meade, and my old workplace, may actually be examples of the results wrought by entropy. (That is, if my understanding of "entropy" is at all correct!)

Perhaps it really is true, that nothing lasts forever!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jimb1001]
      #5995011 - 07/28/13 03:57 PM

Jimb,

Again I'm left wondering if you mean this to be tongue in cheek. In this case, I realize you must, because no one could believe other thoughts were going though the heads of people who drew up three times their current R&D budget in products and went ahead and announced them and already had ads sold showing two even bigger products to ship following on a schedule the leaders couldn't achieve.

There's a story from Ancient Rome. Generals returning from great victories had enormous parades with their prisoners and polished armor from their foes on wagons surrounded by adoring masses. But they already knew about the problem people had with believing their own press, so in the chariot with the general, an aide would repeat in his ear, "Thou art mortal."

If only Meade had been a little more receptive to such council.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







My experience is that business managers who have to sign the checks and put out the balance sheets don't get their understanding of how the company is doing from their ad copy.

Do you know senior managers at Meade who formed their opinion of how Meade was doing from their ad copy?

Sounds farfetched to me.

Or was that just a way to slam Meade management, again?

Lots of real world reasons for Meade's problems, claiming they stem from reading their own ad copy is foolish.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
KevH
sage
*****

Reged: 03/08/10

Loc: Maine
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: cn register 5]
      #5995248 - 07/28/13 06:12 PM

Quote:

What struck me about the Meade adverts was how little technical content there was.

I remember the launch of the LS scopes, things such as the weight and obstruction size weren't specified, at least not until after they were in the hands of customers.

Chris




How much technical info is in Celestron's ads?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: KevH]
      #5995297 - 07/28/13 06:45 PM

I just got the September 2013 Sky and Telescope and just went cover to cover without seeing a single Celestron ad. So, thinking I must have missed something, I checked the advertisers page and found no reference to Celestron. The back page is a Meade ad.

Not an expected result.

Interestingly enough, there is a Skywatcher ad.

-Rich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
germana1
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 05/14/09

Loc: New Jersey
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5995336 - 07/28/13 07:14 PM

The last issue that had a Celestron ad was in May 2013
Pete


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: germana1]
      #5995880 - 07/29/13 01:29 AM

Anyone have a subscription to Astronomy magazine? Have Celestron ads vanished there, as well? If so, when? Come to think of it, others where Celestron once vied with Meade's ads are probably worth a look.

-Rich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5995912 - 07/29/13 02:10 AM

Quote:

Jimb,

Again I'm left wondering if you mean this to be tongue in cheek. In this case, I realize you must, because no one could believe other thoughts were going though the heads of people who drew up three times their current R&D budget in products and went ahead and announced them and already had ads sold showing two even bigger products to ship following on a schedule the leaders couldn't achieve.

There's a story from Ancient Rome. Generals returning from great victories had enormous parades with their prisoners and polished armor from their foes on wagons surrounded by adoring masses. But they already knew about the problem people had with believing their own press, so in the chariot with the general, an aide would repeat in his ear, "Thou art mortal."

If only Meade had been a little more receptive to such council.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







My experience is that business managers who have to sign the checks and put out the balance sheets don't get their understanding of how the company is doing from their ad copy.

Do you know senior managers at Meade who formed their opinion of how Meade was doing from their ad copy?

Sounds farfetched to me.

Or was that just a way to slam Meade management, again?

Lots of real world reasons for Meade's problems, claiming they stem from reading their own ad copy is foolish.







You seem to be pushing this theme that Meade management failed due to hubris and is therefore to blame for all the company's troubles.

Its a tiny company in a tiny hobby, subject to all sorts of market pressures, your comparisons to ancient Rome notwithstanding.

The real question is why you feel the need to find scapegoats in this situation and ascribe motivations to Meade management that would seem very far fetched?

I realize there are any number of people in this thread, apparently happy to jump in when they perceive any blood in the water but, come on, isn't that a really pointless thing to do?

Edited by Starman27 (07/30/13 09:10 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5995913 - 07/29/13 02:10 AM

I hadn't been getting any publication since my S&T ran out last year . But I've got the last two issues of Astronomy . In the August issue , Celestron has full pagers on page five and seven . Sky Watcher is a full page eight . SBIG is full page inside front cover . Tele Vue a full page three and Meade has the back cover . Then you've got your vendor ads in the vendor pages toward the back . Stellarvue has a one third page column ad . That's about it .
It's the same story for the September issue except Explore Scientific takes the one third page column ad and vendor Adorama has a two thirds pager .
All in all it's real slim . Heck I remember these rags being fifty percent advertisement . It's a real switcharoo . Oh yeah , Astronomics actually gets one in at three fifths of a page and Woodland Hills has a quarter page column .
Nothin' like it used to be . I'll have to check out last years S&Ts when I get a chance .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jimb1001]
      #5996232 - 07/29/13 10:02 AM

Jimb,

Now you're rounding up anything anyone said anywhere on this thread you don't like and you're just throwing at me.

Yeah, I get it- you're not happy with the current situation. No one here is.

But you're trying to force a discussion about the publicly reported facts into some narrative about haters, which I don't understand. There's plenty of data on what's happened.

Issuing product after product with major defects for the past decade squarely falls on the shoulders of Meade's management. "Changes in the market" don't cause you to advertise products a year before they can ship and gut existing sales. It doesn't cause you to promise a whole slew of products you have no hope of paying to develop.

It's not hate to point out the lay of the land isn't pretty when it isn't. Attacking the messenger isn't cool, either. If you don't like it, you're entitled to your opinion. There's a lot of data to say the apologist version of the story has some major flaws, so if you're going to buy into that, I can't follow you there. But labeling people as haters for pointing out what's written in Meade's own public record isn't cool.

-Rich

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







My experience is that business managers who have to sign the checks and put out the balance sheets don't get their understanding of how the company is doing from their ad copy.

Do you know senior managers at Meade who formed their opinion of how Meade was doing from their ad copy?

Sounds farfetched to me.

Or was that just a way to slam Meade management, again?

Lots of real world reasons for Meade's problems, claiming they stem from reading their own ad copy is foolish.







You seem to be pushing this theme that Meade management failed due to hubris and is therefore to blame for all the company's troubles.

Its a tiny company in a tiny hobby, subject to all sorts of market pressures, your comparisons to ancient Rome notwithstanding.

The real question is why you feel the need to find scapegoats in this situation and ascribe motivations to Meade management that would seem very far fetched?

I realize there are any number of Meade haters in this thread, apparently happy to jump in when they perceive any blood in the water but, come on, isn't that a really pointless thing to do?




Edited by Starhawk (07/29/13 10:03 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5996263 - 07/29/13 10:19 AM

I have noticed S&T is thin and getting thinner. I don't know what the advertising is telling us. I get lots of email these days trying to sell me Mars globes and boxed DVD sets of all the past S&T issues. I did notice the old Adorama ads disappeared a while ago, but I'm not sure why some ads would still be in Astronomy magazine. Of course, the last time I looked at it was some years ago and was turned off by their suggestion there needs to be another name for Red Dwarf stars because of the British TV show by that name ten years earlier. Well, it wasn't just that, but it would seem it is either unusually cheap ad space or popularity keeping ads in it, so I ought to take a look, though to be honest, the kids get any free time I find laying around.

-Rich

Quote:

I hadn't been getting any publication since my S&T ran out last year . But I've got the last two issues of Astronomy . In the August issue , Celestron has full pagers on page five and seven . Sky Watcher is a full page eight . SBIG is full page inside front cover . Tele Vue a full page three and Meade has the back cover . Then you've got your vendor ads in the vendor pages toward the back . Stellarvue has a one third page column ad . That's about it .
It's the same story for the September issue except Explore Scientific takes the one third page column ad and vendor Adorama has a two thirds pager .
All in all it's real slim . Heck I remember these rags being fifty percent advertisement . It's a real switcharoo . Oh yeah , Astronomics actually gets one in at three fifths of a page and Woodland Hills has a quarter page column .
Nothin' like it used to be . I'll have to check out last years S&Ts when I get a chance .




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5996323 - 07/29/13 11:03 AM

Quote:

Jimb,

Now you're rounding up anything anyone said anywhere on this thread you don't like and you're just throwing at me.

Yeah, I get it- you're not happy with the current situation. No one here is.

But you're trying to force a discussion about the publicly reported facts into some narrative about haters, which I don't understand. There's plenty of data on what's happened.

Issuing product after product with major defects for the past decade squarely falls on the shoulders of Meade's management. "Changes in the market" don't cause you to advertise products a year before they can ship and gut existing sales. It doesn't cause you to promise a whole slew of products you have no hope of paying to develop.

It's not hate to point out the lay of the land isn't pretty when it isn't. Attacking the messenger isn't cool, either. If you don't like it, you're entitled to your opinion. There's a lot of data to say the apologist version of the story has some major flaws, so if you're going to buy into that, I can't follow you there. But labeling people as haters for pointing out what's written in Meade's own public record isn't cool.

-Rich

Quote:

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )







My experience is that business managers who have to sign the checks and put out the balance sheets don't get their understanding of how the company is doing from their ad copy.

Do you know senior managers at Meade who formed their opinion of how Meade was doing from their ad copy?

Sounds farfetched to me.

Or was that just a way to slam Meade management, again?

Lots of real world reasons for Meade's problems, claiming they stem from reading their own ad copy is foolish.







You seem to be pushing this theme that Meade management failed due to hubris and is therefore to blame for all the company's troubles.

Its a tiny company in a tiny hobby, subject to all sorts of market pressures, your comparisons to ancient Rome notwithstanding.

The real question is why you feel the need to find scapegoats in this situation and ascribe motivations to Meade management that would seem very far fetched?

I realize there are any number of Meade haters in this thread, apparently happy to jump in when they perceive any blood in the water but, come on, isn't that a really pointless thing to do?







You are, of course entitled to you opinion but your "facts" are subject to analysis.

Meade undoubtedly rushed certain products to market.

That's what publicly traded companies do when they are short of money. They put product in the pipeline to pay suppliers and make payroll. They make changes on the fly, they create warranty work. But their first objective is to stay in business.

Without knowing much about Meade management I know they did what they thought they had to do to keep the doors open.

Insinuating they made product decisions based on false pride, stupidity, etc. is to ignore the facts.

Their biggest competitor, Celestron, is funded by a Chinese conglomerate with deep pockets.

Department stores are buying their telescopes direct from Chinese manufacturers.

Mall stores like the Discovery Store have gone out of business.

Disposable income is shrinking, especially for the under 40 age group as lower wages, student loans and higher costs for cars, food, gas, etc. take up money that used to be spent on hobbies.

While it may be easy and convenient to lay everything at the feet of Meade management, its not reasonable.

What is reasonable is to criticize them for placing too much reliance on new products, not taking steps to look for a buyer sooner than they have, setting customer service policies that didn't fit the hobbyist mentality: there's never a shortage of reasons for failure.

To chalk it up to hubris? That doesn't contribute to anyone's understanding of the reality of global business today.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jimb1001]
      #5996360 - 07/29/13 11:23 AM

Quote:









You seem to be pushing this theme that Meade management failed due to hubris and is therefore to blame for all the company's troubles.

Its a tiny company in a tiny hobby, subject to all sorts of market pressures, your comparisons to ancient Rome notwithstanding.




None of that matters. They were running a company that was indeed in such a line of business. That is why they should have run it intelligently, instead of trying things like "diworse-ification" into rifle scopes by buying a bunch of brands, which had to be sold off later. The management of this outfit is a laugh. It was not clear over the years if they were seriously managing it or just pretending. They certainly did not seem to make any effort to clean house despite years of decline. The miracle is that they made it this long.

The difficulty of the business area does not matter, I say again. They were hired to run this company in that line of business, a company which has existed for almost 40 years, and they ran it into the ground. The results speak for themselves.

I suggest anyone who has not read it look into Ed Ting's excellent multi-part saga as a typical example of how Meade did business. I experienced this kind of farce myself, as did a friend of mine. I give Meade credit - they were willing to try to help a customer. But just how much money was going down the drain on warranty claims which never seemed to get resolved? http://www.scopereviews.com/178ed.html

Glen


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Calypte
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/20/07

Loc: Anza, California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5996469 - 07/29/13 12:30 PM

Quote:

I have noticed S&T is thin and getting thinner. I don't know what the advertising is telling us. I get lots of email these days trying to sell me Mars globes and boxed DVD sets of all the past S&T issues. I did notice the old Adorama ads disappeared a while ago, but I'm not sure why some ads would still be in Astronomy magazine.



Astronomy's circulation is several times greater than S&T's -- as David Eicher is happy to point out any time he speaks. Of course, I'm sure their rates are higher, too. S&T's "thickness" has waxed and waned over the years. It's certainly not as thick now as it was during the halcyon 1990s, but I happen to have at hand the July 1972 issue, which not only has fewer pages than the Aug 2013 issue (66 vs 86), but also much more page space is taken up with ads.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: << 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | >> (show all)


Extra information
5 registered and 17 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Starman27, kkokkolis 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 63114

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics