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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5998741 - 07/30/13 04:24 PM

Oh, no, they're certain it was due to their own management brilliance...........

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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5998755 - 07/30/13 04:37 PM

Huh ! Yeah , that sounds typical of a bunch of suits .



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B. Cook
professor emeritus
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Reged: 10/18/10

Loc: No. California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5998795 - 07/30/13 05:06 PM

This has been very interesting reading all the different opinions on Meade. Its now the waiting game to see where it all ends up. For those who are tired of reading about I guess you only have one option turn off the computer and turn on the TV and enjoy your favorite show and relax. This will all end soon maybe

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mayidunk
Don't Ask...
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Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Betwixt & Between...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: gmartin02]
      #5999599 - 07/31/13 06:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Because this isn't a news site this is a discussion forum.




That is true, but the topic of this thread is to discuss the Meade takeover.

Quote:


We are hanging out in here because it is interesting and standing around the campfire telling fish stories is what people do.




This is exactly what has become the problem of this thread. This is not a topic of telling fish stories, or "what is the origin of the Meade name", or "I want to buy a Made refractor". These things should have been new threads started, not part of this thread.

So, especially after so many posts, you are saying it is OK to post anything Meade related in this specific thread? Why even bother to have different threads then? Let's just have one giant thread named "anything related to Meade" with 50,000 posts.



It's actually a wake, my friend A good, old fashioned wake! And this is what people talk about at a wake. No one intended it to happen, but it did!

This thread has evolved from being the bearer of sad news, to being a place for half-@ssed analyses as to why it happened, to expressions of sheer disbelief that it ever could happen, to blaming everyone for letting it happen, to blaming themselves for letting it happen, to being a place where people finally accept that it's happening, and just talk about the one they've all lost!

So now, we tell stories about the one we've lost, and we still get angry about it, and we still get angry at others, and so we argue with each other! But then, later on, we cry with each other.

Families tend to do that!

For good or bad, commiserating is what people tend to do best when things look bleak. Hopefully, all here will agree with me in saying that you're more than welcome to stick around, and tell a few stories of your own. After all... you're also a part of this family!

Meade may have only been a business, but to many they were an integral part of their experience growing up as astronomers! For them, life without Meade...?



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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mayidunk]
      #5999799 - 07/31/13 10:23 AM

Maybe part of this is a little bit like the craft beer movement- a change to looking for products better than what is in the dumbed down mass market. I'm really interested by what it may mean if Celestron is pulling back advertising. Software Bisque has a full page ad, though. So, maybe this will mean a lot of little good things.

-Rich


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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5999804 - 07/31/13 10:25 AM

SyntaMeade vs CelestroScientific....maybe WE will win for a change............

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5999818 - 07/31/13 10:33 AM

Quote:

SyntaMeade vs CelestroScientific....maybe WE will win for a change............



Uh, you mean CelestroSynta vs. MeadeScientific.
But it might end up just JOC vs. Synta.
It's close to that now.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5999846 - 07/31/13 10:51 AM

Quote:

Maybe part of this is a little bit like the craft beer movement- a change to looking for products better than what is in the dumbed down mass market. I'm really interested by what it may mean if Celestron is pulling back advertising. Software Bisque has a full page ad, though. So, maybe this will mean a lot of little good things.

-Rich




I don't know that Celestron has recently changed their advertising. I would have to go back to past issues of S&T to determine that. Overall though, I would attribute it to smarter advertising decisions on their part. In the internet age, the value of print advertising is becoming questionable to many. Meade's advertising campaigns have always been hugely expensive and clearly taken with the shotgun approach. The fact that some of the smaller companies out there are taking out full-page ads probably tells you that those companies are doing pretty well to have the budget for those ads and have decided that they get a good number of sales from them. Of course that's the key, knowing whether or not the ads pay for themselves (a difficult thing to measure, believe me). However, a lot of companies dump big bucks into ad campaigns right before they go under in hopes that the blitz can suddenly raise them from the hole they are in. They get the idea that just a little more exposure will suddenly save them when the problem wasn't a lack of exposure after all but problems with their prices, products, service, market analysis or other things. So you never really know what big ads mean other than someone is spending money (or ad space has gotten very cheap, which is unlikely).


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Bill Barlow
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/03/07

Loc: Overland Park KS
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5999898 - 07/31/13 11:30 AM

I saw that Celestron ran a full page ad on the inside front cover of the summer edition of Amateur Astronomer magazine, advertising their HD scopes. But this ad was probably purchased several months ago.

Bill


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MikeBOKC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/10/10

Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5999904 - 07/31/13 11:35 AM

If I was running marketing at Celestron, I'd be desperately seeking a way to stretch the ad budget to film and place a 30 second spot in the first episode of the new Cosmos series next spring. Talk about an untapped, enormous market!

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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5999937 - 07/31/13 11:57 AM

we could always reuse the Little Caeser's commercials with dub over voices.....

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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: csrlice12]
      #5999963 - 07/31/13 12:12 PM

A commercial like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R55e-uHQna0

Only instead of day time it is night time. Instead of a car, it is a go-to telescope. Instead of being controlled by the remote it is controlled by an iPhone or similiar device. At the end the kid has removed her/his helmet and is gazing with wonder at the heavens. Close by showing that model and some others, where to get them and how much they cost.

Show it during re-runs of popular shows like Big Bang Theory (which is already using telescope products in some of their episodes) and other popular shows. Appeal to more than those people that are already interested in astronomy and are already considering a purchase. Appeal to that person who has NEVER considered it.
Lastly you could get sponsors to help with the costs of production and running the commercial by having their names tagged on the back end.

I posted in Stellar Media a while back asking for some discussion pertaining to the idea of crowdfunding a generic telescope and astronomy commercial that would do something similar. Running commercials through local cable providers isn't as expensive as you might think. You can also run audio ads and have Google tack them on to the beginning of any science and technology related video.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #6000126 - 07/31/13 02:27 PM

Well, without saying what it is many people pour good money into advertizing in this country with absolutely nothing to show for it, this might actually do something constructive.

-Rich


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #6000144 - 07/31/13 02:39 PM

What do I think? I like cheese.

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Howie Glatter
Vendor


Reged: 07/04/06

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mayidunk]
      #6000154 - 07/31/13 02:48 PM

"So now, we tell stories about the one we've lost, and we still get angry about it, and we still get angry at others, and so we argue with each other! But then, later on, we cry with each other. . Families tend to do that!"

Corporations are people, too!


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gmartin02
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 04/11/05

Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mayidunk]
      #6000158 - 07/31/13 02:49 PM

Quote:


It's actually a wake, my friend A good, old fashioned wake! And this is what people talk about at a wake. No one intended it to happen, but it did!

This thread has evolved from being the bearer of sad news, to being a place for half-@ssed analyses as to why it happened, to expressions of sheer disbelief that it ever could happen, to blaming everyone for letting it happen, to blaming themselves for letting it happen, to being a place where people finally accept that it's happening, and just talk about the one they've all lost!

So now, we tell stories about the one we've lost, and we still get angry about it, and we still get angry at others, and so we argue with each other! But then, later on, we cry with each other.

Families tend to do that!

For good or bad, commiserating is what people tend to do best when things look bleak.




OK - I get it now. After thinking about everything again, the thing that has bothered me the most about a few of the posts is the trolling, and the "Meade hater" accusations when other posters were just pointing out the reasons for the deficiencies that got Meade into this mess in the first place. Those are about the only things that get my blood boiling. Perhaps due to the nature of this topic, the emotion level is a lot higher on this thread than on most other threads on the CN forums.

Quote:


Hopefully, all here will agree with me in saying that you're more than welcome to stick around, and tell a few stories of your own. After all... you're also a part of this family!




Thanks Bob,

I think this is the nicest thing that anyone has written in this thread. I'm going to use this as an example to increase my own level of gentility in my posts when I get frustrated after seeing less than decent posts.

Here is a short reminiscence: After seeing the Meade glossy print ads in the magazines for several years (and drooling every time), in 1992 I purchased my first "mid sized" telescope - the Meade 8" Starfinder EQ. I was excited beyond belief, and it was really quite a good telescope (once I figured out what collimation was and that my significant astigmatism requires me to wear eyeglasses when viewing with the longer f/l eyepieces). This telescope was my main viewing instrument for 10 years. I sold it in 2002 when I got a 6" Russian Mak & a 10" Dob, but it will always have a fond spot in my astro memories.

Greg


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #6000268 - 07/31/13 04:41 PM

Quote:

What do I think? I like cheese.



But what sort of cheese?

I like Blacksticks Blue.

Chris


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Howie Glatter]
      #6000290 - 07/31/13 04:54 PM

Especially you, Howie!

Quote:

"So now, we tell stories about the one we've lost, and we still get angry about it, and we still get angry at others, and so we argue with each other! But then, later on, we cry with each other. . Families tend to do that!"

Corporations are people, too!




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Howie Glatter
Vendor


Reged: 07/04/06

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #6000343 - 07/31/13 05:36 PM

"Especially you, Howie!"

I'm a Soul Proprietor.


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mayidunk
Don't Ask...
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Betwixt & Between...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: gmartin02]
      #6000366 - 07/31/13 06:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:


It's actually a wake, my friend A good, old fashioned wake! And this is what people talk about at a wake. No one intended it to happen, but it did!

This thread has evolved from being the bearer of sad news, to being a place for half-@ssed analyses as to why it happened, to expressions of sheer disbelief that it ever could happen, to blaming everyone for letting it happen, to blaming themselves for letting it happen, to being a place where people finally accept that it's happening, and just talk about the one they've all lost!

So now, we tell stories about the one we've lost, and we still get angry about it, and we still get angry at others, and so we argue with each other! But then, later on, we cry with each other.

Families tend to do that!

For good or bad, commiserating is what people tend to do best when things look bleak.




OK - I get it now. After thinking about everything again, the thing that has bothered me the most about a few of the posts is the trolling, and the "Meade hater" accusations when other posters were just pointing out the reasons for the deficiencies that got Meade into this mess in the first place. Those are about the only things that get my blood boiling. Perhaps due to the nature of this topic, the emotion level is a lot higher on this thread than on most other threads on the CN forums.

Quote:


Hopefully, all here will agree with me in saying that you're more than welcome to stick around, and tell a few stories of your own. After all... you're also a part of this family!




Thanks Bob,

I think this is the nicest thing that anyone has written in this thread. I'm going to use this as an example to increase my own level of gentility in my posts when I get frustrated after seeing less than decent posts.

Here is a short reminiscence: After seeing the Meade glossy print ads in the magazines for several years (and drooling every time), in 1992 I purchased my first "mid sized" telescope - the Meade 8" Starfinder EQ. I was excited beyond belief, and it was really quite a good telescope (once I figured out what collimation was and that my significant astigmatism requires me to wear eyeglasses when viewing with the longer f/l eyepieces). This telescope was my main viewing instrument for 10 years. I sold it in 2002 when I got a 6" Russian Mak & a 10" Dob, but it will always have a fond spot in my astro memories.

Greg



Thank you for your kind words, Greg.

I also got my first scope, an Orion 8" DSE Dob, right around 1992. I still have it, as a matter of fact! Turns out I'm kind of a gear hoarder when it comes to this stuff, as I just can't seem to let anything go!

My first Meade was the original ETX Astro, which I purchased on 8/30/96, at 8:57 PM, from The Nature Company, for the "princely" sum of $524.70 (incl. tax). (Yes, I have the original sales receipt right here in my hand!) Of course, I had other scopes by then. And though I was using it, it eventually fell by the wayside, and so it sat for about a year in an area where there was no air conditioning. I wasn't yet aware of the "wandering baffle" issue at the time, but when I did finally learn of it, I went to check mine to see if it was still in one piece! Unfortunately, as I had left it sitting with the tube horizontal, the baffle had slowly started migrating "South" of the secondary mirror spot, having slid nearly all the way off of it! I was crestfallen! Adhesive had been dragged all across the secondary spot, and I was at a loss at that moment as to how it was all going to be put back right. Especially since it was long out of warranty by then, and they had stopped sending out the repair kits!

So, after doing some more research, I started thinking... What if I were to turn the tube over so that the baffle would be "North" of the spot? Given enough time, would the baffle just wander on back into place on its own?! It sounded reasonable, so I did just that! I flipped the tube, turning the base so that the tube would still be pointing in the same direction as before, and leaving the scope right where it was, decided to just ignore it for another year.

Lo, and behold, about a year later, not only did the baffle go back to its original position, but it actually dragged all of the adhesive back with it! There is absolutely no adhesive residue anywhere to be seen on the spot! And when I say it went back into place, it literally moved right back into its original position, directly centered around the spot!

So, I was also a victim of an unnecessary Meade "miscalculation." But at least in this case, it fixed itself without my having to send it back to Meade, and it only took a year to get it back in perfect working condition! I still have that scope (of course), and it still shows as good of an image as it ever did. I also have the original box, with all the inserts, along with the user manual, and (of course) the sales receipt.

The only change I ever really made to that scope over the years, besides replacing the trunnions after I discovered they were failing under the cap head screws, was to replace the finder scope with the right-angle finder scope Meade was selling for a while, being fortunate to have gotten it well before it became worth its weight in gold! I was also able to find a brand new, "official" screw-on dew shield as well. Of course, I also have the EQ legs, but I hardly ever use them (the AstroScan conundrum), preferring to use the model #883 tripod instead. Unfortunately, Meade replaced the #883 with the #884, a seemingly cost effective decision that kind of illustrates to me the mindset that got them into this mess in the first place! Just compare the two, and you'll quickly see what I mean.

Considering how massively popular the ETX was at the time, I sometimes wonder what might have been if they would have only made reasonable improvements to the RA drive on the ETX Astro, fixed the baffle, and then included a carrying case with a similar form factor as Questar's? Many who bought the ETX early on, did so simply because it was the closest thing to a Questar that they could afford! Had Meade played into that concept, rather than just banking on the ETX as being the first, relatively inexpensive GOTO scope for the masses, they would have done so much better! Instead, they started cranking them out willy-nilly, only to start losing their shirts on warranty work caused by deficient designs, even worse design changes, and less than stellar QC.

Had they, instead, combined a reasonably better designed mount, constructed using reasonably better materials, with the Q-like trappings, along with GOTO capability later on, and then offered them as a reasonably priced, good quality "poor man's Questar" (later to be a, "poor man's Questar, NOW WITH GOTO!"), they would have sold tons more of them, and at a reasonably higher price, while at the same time, reestablishing a much needed reputation for good quality, and they would have ended up with an even bigger cash cow with which to fund better R&D going into the 21st century! Heck, that cow probably could have even paid for the new machines they needed! Of course, they would have had to have done it in such a way that Questar would have never been able to sue them for patent violations, or trademark infringements. But, their lawyers and marketing people probably could have done a good job of that.

Unfortunately, that's all water under the bridge, now...

Now, when I think of the many groundbreaking things that Meade actually did over the years, and consider how they could have leveraged all of that, and then consider how they are now facing their demise, all I can do is imagine what could have been!



And, I know that I'm not alone in that thought.

Edited by mayidunk (07/31/13 06:13 PM)


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