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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5932783 - 06/21/13 10:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

]

That is my thinking. Scott Roberts who, with his team at Explore Science, seems to understand the market and just as important, he knows Meade.




Yeah, I think so too...my fear is that is not going to happen now. The clock is ticking and there are at least two groups of investors who want to block the deal.




Rod:

I think we are all concerned.. But think of it this way.. If Meade ends up in the hands of someone else, it will probably fail and the carcass will be left for the scavengers, it will be torn apart into chewable, edible size chunks...

This could be the best thing that could happen. It could then be put back together into a tasty meal and freed from it's burdens... This could be a real advantage for Scott Roberts and crew, they are probably among the few that know the good meat and rather than being burdened by all of Meade's past, they can start afresh...

In a sense, no matter what happens, sooner or later the actual valuable assets of Meade are likely to end up in the hands of someone who can make good use of them because they have no value to anyone else...

Back in the early 1990s Schwinn Bicycle went bankrupt. They were the face of American bicycling but they were way behind the times and had been for many years. The balloon tired cruisers and Varsity's were remember from our younger years, they were not very good bicycles, they were already gone. Schwinn, much like Meade and Celestron, outsourced their manufacturing to Taiwan and like Meade and Celestron, took on a much reduced role...

But beginning in 1938, all those years while Schwinn was producing heavy, overweight bicycles that were outdated by the standards of the rest of the world, they were also producing a limited number of very high quality road bicycles, the legendary Schwinn Paramounts. The Paramounts were comparable in quality to the finest European bicycles and used components from Europe.

When Schwinn went under, there was not a lot of value. One thing of value was the Paramount name and that went to the new owners. But Richard Schwinn knew the value of the Paramount name and more importantly of the history and the factory, the workers who built the Paramounts. So Richard Schwinn bought everything but the name, renamed them after the location of the factory, Waterford, Wisconsin and so today, the legend that is the Schwinn Paramount continues.

Jon


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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5932790 - 06/21/13 10:58 AM

The MIT Capital all cash proposal has been out there in one form or another since January (at least). It was basically one of the proposals that was turned down by the board in the end because MIT Capital was not signing a confidentiality agreement. The all cash offer (which is a formal tender offer file with the SEC today) as it stands calls for a removal of all Meade management and board members to be replaced with MIT Capital nominations.

Such an offer, by the way, would likely allow MIT Capital to take full advantage of certain tax benefits, possibly including Meade's NOL carry forward, that Meade would likely otherwise not be able to use under current circumstances. Both the MIT Capital and JOC North America offers indicate that they intend to pursue strong marketing efforts of the Meade brand into Asian and other related markets and will integrate Meade's product marketing into new and different infrastructure.

Right now, Meade is in an extreme liquidity crunch, so all of this is happening against a background of urgency with conflicting shareholder and management expectations. Rod is right, the clock is ticking. The short story is that all of the deals in the world that are good in the next month won't be worth anything for Meade's future if they don't make the next payroll or a creditor calls a note tomorrow.


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rdandrea
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/13/10

Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5932804 - 06/21/13 11:04 AM

Who do we write to to say that if the JOC offer goes through, we'll continue to buy Meade products, but if the MITC offer goes through, we might not?

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rdandrea]
      #5932813 - 06/21/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

Who do we write to to say that if the JOC offer goes through, we'll continue to buy Meade products, but if the MITC offer goes through, we might not?




They probably don't care... but maybe someone at Meade or maybe Scott Roberts or Russ could point to this thread as evidence of the support the community has for the take over by Jinghua. Of all the things we talk about doing, this might be the most significant.

Jon


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BillP
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Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5932814 - 06/21/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

I'm in for $20k. No foolin'. But I want to be Chairman of the Board.

We'll hire Don Pensack as our CEO. We'll kill off everything except H Alpha and fork mounted SCTs, and then use the savings from the culling to make those much better than competitors can touch. We'll move manufacturing back to the US.

In 5 years, we'll be buying Celestron from Synta, ES from JOC and Lunt. Muahahahahaha! Then we'll take it public again, retire as rich men and women, and then let some group of Wallstreet bozos run it back into the ground so our kids can wash, rinse, repeat.

Two years ago three buddies and I talked about taking over Meade as a hobby project. It is that cheap.

Regards,

Jim





Hmmmm. You are suggesting a company Of-the-Observer, By-the-Observer, and For-the-Observer? That just might soar!!


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gnowellsct
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/24/09

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Eigen]
      #5932822 - 06/21/13 11:20 AM

Quote:

You obviously know very little of what PE firms do, besides what you have learned from mainstream news sensationalism. There is absolutely no business sense behind acquiring Meade and selling it piece by piece. It would be like buying a Patek Philippe, tearing apart and and selling it off as metal scrap.




I question whether Meade runs like a fine watch.


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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rdandrea]
      #5932859 - 06/21/13 11:46 AM

Quote:

Who do we write to to say that if the JOC offer goes through, we'll continue to buy Meade products, but if the MITC offer goes through, we might not?




You can write to the Meade Board. That may not really matter since they won't really have any control over the filed MITC public tender. I'm also not sure whether it will matter anyhow since both competing groups are indicating that, if they are successful in taking over Meade, one of their big areas of marketing emphasis will be in the Asian markets.

At this point, nothing is really personal, it is just business. Fairness doesn't necessarily play here (unfortunately).

Those are strictly my thoughts, of course.


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Kevdog
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/11/12

Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Patrick]
      #5932904 - 06/21/13 12:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

all kidding aside, I hope they get things worked out. it would be a sad day for the hobby to lose one of the BIG TWO.




Who are the BIG TWO?? I know it used to be Meade and Celestron, but now Celestron is owned by Synta and Meade's current lack of successful product launches and loss of vitality do not seem like those of a "BIG" player.

If you ask me, Synta with all it's major brands is the only consumer grade game left in town.

How does losing Meade at this point change anything? Is it product innovation? Competition? What? I feel the pain of many who've been in the hobby for a long time, but what has Meade brought to the party lately?

Patrick




When I went to buy my first scope last year my wife and I only knew of 2 main brands, Meade and Orion. Celestron was that "other brand". Once you're fully in the hobby, it's easy to forget what people outside know. Meade has a BIG name and that's not something to be taken lightly.

Just like in cameras, there's Canikon. Other companies like Olympus and Pentax make great cameras, but people KNOW Canon and Nikon.


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Kevdog
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/11/12

Loc: Desert Hills, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Kevdog]
      #5932957 - 06/21/13 12:55 PM

Btw, I'd be in for $1k.

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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: BillP]
      #5933065 - 06/21/13 01:56 PM

That is precisely what we have been talking about.

-Rich


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5933085 - 06/21/13 02:05 PM

Pretty obviously "MITCapital" doesn't actually exist- they don't appear anywhere in the world before the Meade announcement. So, the question there is, "Whose sock puppet is that?" They make claims about wanting to go out and do something with marketing, but if they are able to do that, then "MITCapital" is a front for someone we already know. If they really are just a group of investors, then the chop shop is the probable outcome.

It's going to come down to whether the existing stockholders want to have something survive their ownership or not for a 7% difference in sales price.

-Rich

Quote:

The MIT Capital all cash proposal has been out there in one form or another since January (at least). It was basically one of the proposals that was turned down by the board in the end because MIT Capital was not signing a confidentiality agreement. The all cash offer (which is a formal tender offer file with the SEC today) as it stands calls for a removal of all Meade management and board members to be replaced with MIT Capital nominations.

Such an offer, by the way, would likely allow MIT Capital to take full advantage of certain tax benefits, possibly including Meade's NOL carry forward, that Meade would likely otherwise not be able to use under current circumstances. Both the MIT Capital and JOC North America offers indicate that they intend to pursue strong marketing efforts of the Meade brand into Asian and other related markets and will integrate Meade's product marketing into new and different infrastructure.

Right now, Meade is in an extreme liquidity crunch, so all of this is happening against a background of urgency with conflicting shareholder and management expectations. Rod is right, the clock is ticking. The short story is that all of the deals in the world that are good in the next month won't be worth anything for Meade's future if they don't make the next payroll or a creditor calls a note tomorrow.




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Red Comet
member


Reged: 03/06/12

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: bicparker]
      #5933116 - 06/21/13 02:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Who do we write to to say that if the JOC offer goes through, we'll continue to buy Meade products, but if the MITC offer goes through, we might not?




You can write to the Meade Board. That may not really matter since they won't really have any control over the filed MITC public tender. I'm also not sure whether it will matter anyhow since both competing groups are indicating that, if they are successful in taking over Meade, one of their big areas of marketing emphasis will be in the Asian markets.

At this point, nothing is really personal, it is just business. Fairness doesn't necessarily play here (unfortunately).

Those are strictly my thoughts, of course.




The Asian market - That's mostly Japan and China. Vixen has a iron grip in Japan so that can be ignored. That leaves China as the other big market.

JOC is a major player inside China (under its Maxvision brand) and has an established supply chain and distribution network. It will be able to offer local support for Meade products, so faulty equipments don't have to be shipped back to US for warranty repair. JOC products from their ES brand has a good reputation for quality. As part of a Chinese company, Meade just need to produce quality on par with other Chinese made equipment. They can sell cheap because things will be made in house. In last year's CIOE, JOC had a 8" SCT on show next to two ES Apos, so they might have plans of making SCTs regardless of whether Meade acquisition succeeds.

Compared to JOC, MITC has no infrastructure in Asia and Meade will have to compete against Synta, JOC, and many of its OEMs in their home turf. Synta's products already have a better reputation than Meade's and they are much cheaper. Optically, Chinese made Meade optics is only as good as Chinese made optics and Mexican ones are slightly worse. The Chinese are not stupid, they only buy expensive import if that import performs better than their own. Buying Chinese made apo and eyepiece, slapping a Meade logo on it and sell it back to the Chinese at a premium will never work.

It doesn't take an economist to see which can succeed and which is doomed to fail in the Asian market.


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Red Comet]
      #5933121 - 06/21/13 02:39 PM

Um, you're leaving out Taiwan, Malaysia, South Korea, New Guinea, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Phillipines... all part of the Asian market.

And don't forget about that little country, India!


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wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: WesC]
      #5933213 - 06/21/13 03:48 PM

.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: WesC]
      #5933289 - 06/21/13 04:38 PM

And Australia and New Zealand, also normally included in the APAC region.

- Jim


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RodgerHouTex
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Reged: 06/02/09

Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Paul G]
      #5933600 - 06/21/13 07:54 PM

Very nice!

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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Kevdog]
      #5934144 - 06/22/13 06:28 AM

Quote:

Btw, I'd be in for $1k.




Better have another 10K to throw in too...the purchase price would be just the beginning...


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cuivienor
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/07/10

Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #5934145 - 06/22/13 06:33 AM

Vixen has an iron grip on the Christmas Scopes in Japan. Meade an Celestron are pretty popular for more serious applications here, with Meare being cheaper than Celestron (or Vixen for that matter). Apparently the LX80 is selling like hotcakes according to the Meade reseller here. Celestron is also starting to appear in mainstream electronics stores (the travel scope series).

Saying that Vixen has an iron grip in Japan is incorrect I would say.


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pubquiz
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 10/07/04

Loc: Lancashire England
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: cuivienor]
      #5934154 - 06/22/13 06:59 AM

In March I did one of those 'Fantasy Share Portfolios' with Halifax building Society here in the UK.

You get a pretend £10000 to invest which you divide between companies of your choice.

I picked 10 companies in industries relating to my hobbies/interests ..one of them being Meade.

Since then the Meade share price has more than doubled!

The imaginary £1000 original investment has made a profit of £1658!

If only I had put my life savings in real money in

Wish I had a crystal ball ....I would now possess a new mount and a big TAK etc

Tom

P.S. The mount wouldn't be a Meade


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: pubquiz]
      #5934387 - 06/22/13 11:01 AM

No- only the merger bid did that. Look at what would have happened last March to last June. The stock didn't rise due to company performance. All you are looking at is what you would have had the opportunity to make with insider trading knowledge, so don't have regrets.

And since it isn't clear who MITC actually is, the future for 6 months from now is very uncertain. They may be kunming looking to directly gain access to markets, they may be vultures, heck, they may be Synta looking to buy the competing IP and end a pesky avenue for competition.

-Rich


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