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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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jgraham
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Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003676 - 08/02/13 06:17 PM

Yeah, the demise of the LXD75 line was disappointing. The LX80 is and odd alternative.

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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jgraham]
      #6003703 - 08/02/13 06:31 PM

A Standard Newt , three Schmidt Newts , a Schmidt Cssigrain and two Achromats kicked to the curb overnight ?
What about the guys that can't afford an APO but still want a refractor ?
What about a Newt with Go-To ?
What about an SCT on an affordable platform ?
Theres still a lot of long time enthusiasts as well as newcomers that don't have six or eight grand to throw down on a scope but want something more than a toy .


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rmollise
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #6003748 - 08/02/13 06:57 PM

Quote:

Rod, do you feel the same way about Celestron?






Yes I do. Why?

The same things apply...it is a BUSINESS. It's not my special friend. I like the Xbox 360, for example, but I don't get all teary if MS has a financial bump.

The other thing is that Celestron is NOT the Celestron I grew up with. Yes, it's nice they still do some things in California. But it's not Tom Johnson's little up and comer telescope company anymore. It is a big multinational corporation.

I don't wish Meade ill, I am just not emotionally invested in them. I hope they survive in some form because I like their products, not because I am a fan of the company.


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EddWen
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Reged: 04/26/08

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003752 - 08/02/13 07:00 PM

I know nothing about the product lines you are discussing, but I do know that a product has to be sold at a defined profit margin. If the product cannot be built or purchased from sub-contractors with sufficient margin (note, this is not called greed) a business decision has to be made. Can we increase the catalog price enough to make that margin? Will the product continue to sell enough units at that price? Is the supply chain reliable?

None of this has anything to do with customers who have bought the product and are/were happy with it.



Quote:

It's still puzzling to me why they dropped the moderately priced LXD75 line with a choice of seven different OTAs available at a price point that the average joe could afford .
Also puzzling that they dropped their Broadband , Narrowband and OIII filters . These were all top notch .
And what about the more premium Barlows or Tele extenders ? Nothing there anymore either .
An attempt at narrowing the offerings due to money problems ?
It seems that they cut in all the wrong areas .
Just thinkin' out loud er somethin' .






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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003755 - 08/02/13 07:01 PM

Quote:

A Standard Newt , three Schmidt Newts , a Schmidt Cssigrain and two Achromats kicked to the curb overnight ?
What about the guys that can't afford an APO but still want a refractor ?
What about a Newt with Go-To ?
What about an SCT on an affordable platform ?
Theres still a lot of long time enthusiasts as well as newcomers that don't have six or eight grand to throw down on a scope but want something more than a toy .




I am not sure what you consider "affordable," but Meade and Celestron SCTs, as I've mentioned a time or two before, despite all their go-to features are more affordable than ever; certainly more affordable than they were in the 80s.


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003763 - 08/02/13 07:06 PM

Quote:


Also puzzling that they dropped their Broadband , Narrowband and OIII filters . These were all top notch .
And what about the more premium Barlows or Tele extenders ? Nothing there anymore either .
An attempt at narrowing the offerings due to money problems ?
It seems that they cut in all the wrong areas .
Just thinkin' out loud er somethin' .






Meade did not make any of those things; they just imported them. Why no more? Either they were not returning a large enough profit to bother with 'em, or they don't have the money to pay the suppliers at this time. Since the profit in this business is better in accessories, my guess, and that is ALL it is, would be the latter.


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rmollise
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jgraham]
      #6003768 - 08/02/13 07:08 PM

Quote:

Yeah, the demise of the LXD75 line was disappointing. The LX80 is and odd alternative.




It wouldn't have been if it had worked as advertised.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EddWen]
      #6003786 - 08/02/13 07:24 PM

Quote:

I know nothing about the product lines you are discussing, but I do know that a product has to be sold at a defined profit margin. If the product cannot be built or purchased from sub-contractors with sufficient margin (note, this is not called greed) a business decision has to be made. Can we increase the catalog price enough to make that margin? Will the product continue to sell enough units at that price? Is the supply chain reliable?

None of this has anything to do with customers who have bought the product and are/were happy with it.



Quote:

It's still puzzling to me why they dropped the moderately priced LXD75 line with a choice of seven different OTAs available at a price point that the average joe could afford .
Also puzzling that they dropped their Broadband , Narrowband and OIII filters . These were all top notch .
And what about the more premium Barlows or Tele extenders ? Nothing there anymore either .
An attempt at narrowing the offerings due to money problems ?
It seems that they cut in all the wrong areas .
Just thinkin' out loud er somethin' .










Pretty much goes without saying . So what's your point ? I never insinuated that it had anything to do with customer satisfaction or desire . What I did point out is that I believe these items may have been dropped to narrow the offerings as to compensate for financial woes . Obviously these are accessories that were offered by the company for quite a long time . If they weren't profitable , I doubt they would have been made available for as long as they were . All of these items were dropped from the product line at virtually the same time . It has nothing to do with customers who have bought the products and are /were happy with it . (them) .
Greed ? Where did that come from ?


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #6003813 - 08/02/13 07:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A Standard Newt , three Schmidt Newts , a Schmidt Cssigrain and two Achromats kicked to the curb overnight ?
What about the guys that can't afford an APO but still want a refractor ?
What about a Newt with Go-To ?
What about an SCT on an affordable platform ?
Theres still a lot of long time enthusiasts as well as newcomers that don't have six or eight grand to throw down on a scope but want something more than a toy .




I am not sure what you consider "affordable," but Meade and Celestron SCTs, as I've mentioned a time or two before, despite all their go-to features are more affordable than ever; certainly more affordable than they were in the 80s.




I'm sure we all know that these became more affordable with time . I've already stated this fact in previous posts . And we are talkin' about Meade here , not Celestron . I guess I should have been more articulate in my explanation and said "an affordable EQ mounted SCT" . Well , I imagine that one could consider the LX80 mounted SCT affordable but last I knew , that setup was a failure . So that leaves Meade without an affordable SCT sans their lowest priced fork mounted version . One could say also that the term "affordable" is a term that is built on perception . Not all of us have the fat pockets that others do . Obviously my perception varies from yours as you undoubtedly have fatter pockets than I .


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rmollise
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Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003828 - 08/02/13 07:51 PM

Not sure what you are saying. Meade still offers the very affordable LX90 with full go-to, and it costs far less in real dollars than the 2080, LX-3, LX-5, or LX-6 of yore. If Meade survives I'd guess you'd see a new GEM SCT, too, whether that is an improved LX80 or a reintroduced LXD75.

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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #6003834 - 08/02/13 07:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Also puzzling that they dropped their Broadband , Narrowband and OIII filters . These were all top notch .
And what about the more premium Barlows or Tele extenders ? Nothing there anymore either .
An attempt at narrowing the offerings due to money problems ?
It seems that they cut in all the wrong areas .
Just thinkin' out loud er somethin' .






Meade did not make any of those things; they just imported them. Why no more? Either they were not returning a large enough profit to bother with 'em, or they don't have the money to pay the suppliers at this time. Since the profit in this business is better in accessories, my guess, and that is ALL it is, would be the latter.




Thanks teach ! I thought they painted those filters right there in Irvine ! (my home town) . They also made all the JOC stuff in Irvine too didn't they ? Cheese and Rice !
No doubt it was an economic decision to drop those accessories . I would doubt that they weren't profitable . As I had to post before , these products were offered for years by the company . If they were not profitable , i cant see them lasting the duration of time that they did . Did they all of a sudden become unprofitable overnight ? Highly unlikely . So I'd have to agree . It's the latter . I think I conveyed that already .
Chardonnay !
It's just my opinion that they made cuts in all the wrong places .
Just my opinion .
Excuse me !


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #6003864 - 08/02/13 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, the demise of the LXD75 line was disappointing. The LX80 is and odd alternative.




It wouldn't have been if it had worked as advertised.




I have two of them and they both worked as advertised . I've seen plenty of others at star parties that also worked as advertised . A buddy of mine bought the mount separately to get his 8" SCT off of his old LXD500 and have a Go-To mount . It worked as advertised . This one was one of the last ones out if I'm not mistaken . Maybe he got lucky . Maybe I got lucky . Maybe all the guys at GMARS all got lucky .
Were all the LXD75s flawless ? No . Of course not .
But the CG5GT was far from flawless and having superior QC also . What can be expected for a six hundred dollar mount ?
For twelve you could get the Vixen .


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: rmollise]
      #6003889 - 08/02/13 08:22 PM

Quote:

Not sure what you are saying. Meade still offers the very affordable LX90 with full go-to, and it costs far less in real dollars than the 2080, LX-3, LX-5, or LX-6 of yore. If Meade survives I'd guess you'd see a new GEM SCT, too, whether that is an improved LX80 or a reintroduced LXD75.




If I'm not mistaken , the LX90 is a fork mount no ?

I imagine you must have missed where i referred to an EQ mounted SCT . Oh and Meade .
So an affordable EQ mounted SCT offered by Meade and not the poor excuse of an EQ that they call the LXD80 ,
Not the Celestron offerings that fall in line more with reality . But the Meade line that just doesn't offer one anymore .
Cheese and Rice , am I slurring my keys. &(/(:("@=%{^€~>£|<€¥>>*¥
{:o)


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003896 - 08/02/13 08:25 PM

Quote:

If I'm not mistaken , the LX90 is a fork mount no ?




Sure. Lots of folks run EQ forkmounts; I did it for years.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6003925 - 08/02/13 08:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If I'm not mistaken , the LX90 is a fork mount no ?




Sure. Lots of folks run EQ forkmounts; I did it for years.




Yeah , I guess you can get the wedge for about two hundies .


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starrancher
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003927 - 08/02/13 08:41 PM

So when it's all said and done and I guess my point is totally being missed here , is that the cheapest Meade SCT on an EQ mount is what ? Eight grand ?

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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6003981 - 08/02/13 09:26 PM

Quote:

So when it's all said and done and I guess my point is totally being missed here , is that the cheapest Meade SCT on an EQ mount is what ? Eight grand ?




Naw. $2K (wedged LX90) or less (LX80).


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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6004198 - 08/03/13 12:40 AM

They probably quit selling cheap GEMs because they are much lower margin compared to their other mounts. You're basically answering your own question.

"Let's see, we're losin' money faster than a drunk in Vegas. Shall we grind out a bunch of cheap mounts that's about break-even for us, or shall we hope people will buy a few mounts we can make decent money on and keep drawing payckecks a few more weeks? OTAs cost the same to make, either way...hmmm...decisions, decisions." Duh.

It's like asking why the guy is throwing dirt with a shovel on the ashes of his home instead of water with a garden hose, though. The house is burnt down either way.

Or do you think they are so sensitive that they feel the need to keep grinding out their least expensive and least profitable products as a courtesy, as the walls are falling down around them? I think their minds are elsewhere, like if their yacht is paid for.

Don't worry, whatever Chinese company buys the rights to Meade's carcass will soon be grinding out tens of thousands of cheap GEMs to sit under their SCTs.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6004202 - 08/03/13 12:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

So when it's all said and done and I guess my point is totally being missed here , is that the cheapest Meade SCT on an EQ mount is what ? Eight grand ?




Naw. $2K (wedged LX90) or less (LX80).




I thought the LX80 was DOA .
The wedge isn't a GEM .
Don't get me wrong . I mean almost everything I own is Meade , but if I were to be in the market for a tripod mounted scope at this point , I'd have to say that I'd more than likely be looking at the Celestron stuff . Meade blew it by not offering a GEM that doesn't cost more than I poor boy like me can afford .
While Celestron expanded their offerings of GEMs at a variety of price points , Meade all but eliminated theirs .
I saw this happening a few years back and was as baffled by it then as I am now .
It's like Duh !!
Why ?

Ya can't get a refractor or a Newt on a fork mount very easily .


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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #6004209 - 08/03/13 12:47 AM

Quote:

Thanks teach ! I thought they painted those filters right there in Irvine ! (my home town).




Dude, perfect! Please drive/ride over to Meade HQ and take some pictures of the parking lot for us on Monday, see if anyone is coming to work. Try to get some "man on the street" interviews, too - video would be outstanding, although asking a lot. You have a chance to record history over the next several weeks.

If nothing else, at least take some pics and talk to the security guard.


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