Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Astro Physics Star 12 ED
      #5937026 - 06/23/13 07:54 PM

There is an AP Star 12 ED for sale on this side of the pond, which is a rarity.

While I'd love to own something with the pedigree of the AP, I currently have a Skywatcher ED120 Pro with a Moonlite focuser which, while nowhere near the same league as the AP in terms of build quality and class, for want of a better word, is a fine scope optically, or so it seems to me.

To purchase the AP Star 120 ED would cost me around 3x as much as the ED120 cost and I'd eventually need to sell the ED120 to offset some of the cost of the Star 12 ED.

I'm tempted by the prospect of owning something with the prestige of the AP but, from what I've read, it seems likely that the performance of the two scopes (the Star 120 ED and the Skywatcher ED120) could be fairly similar.

Is that a realistic assessment or have I missed something ?

I'm a visual astronomer and don't image with my scopes so the performance I'm referring to would be visual.

I'd be grateful for any feedback on the AP Star ED, especially from someone who also has tried a Skywatcher ED120

Thanks.

Edited by John Huntley (06/23/13 07:56 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5937223 - 06/23/13 10:12 PM

Quote:

it seems likely that the performance of the two scopes (the Star 120 ED and the Skywatcher ED120) could be fairly similar.

Is that a realistic assessment or have I missed something ?


Thanks.



I believe your assessment is correct. While the AP may have a better figure, it is most likely not made with the modern glass and coatings that has the color free properties of the FPL53 that is in your Skywatcher.
If your just looking for a scope with prestige then buy the AP, if you are more interested in what is seen in the eyepiece then stick with the 120 you have.
Check out the thread below.

Link
Steve

Edited by KWB (06/24/13 12:13 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: stevew]
      #5937245 - 06/23/13 10:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

it seems likely that the performance of the two scopes (the Star 120 ED and the Skywatcher ED120) could be fairly similar.

Is that a realistic assessment or have I missed something ?


Thanks.



I believe your assessment is correct. While the AP may have a better figure, it is most likely not made with the modern glass and coatings that has the color free properties of the FPL53 that is in your Skywatcher.
If your just looking for a scope with prestige then buy the AP, if you are more interested in what is seen in the eyepiece then stick with the 120 you have.
Check out the thread below.

Link







Wait just a minute here - "modern glass"? Newer yes, better no.

Roland Christen commented on this years ago. The glass used in the Star12 (KzF2) went out of production due to "environmental concerns". More often than not, "eco-friendly" products represent a step backwards in performance (otherwise, they would have been used from the start). RC found modern replacements rather wanting - apparently KzF2 could hold a better figure. See his Yahoo Refractor Group post dated October 9, 2007 for more details.

Edited by KWB (06/24/13 12:09 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5937262 - 06/23/13 10:54 PM

As Jeff is an actual owner of an AP Star12 I defer to his expertise...

Although at 3 times the price I'm not sure you will see 3 times better images.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BarrySimon615
Pa Bear
*****

Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: stevew]
      #5937300 - 06/23/13 11:30 PM Attachment (59 downloads)

See this -
link

It is my head to head under the stars test comparing the Star 12ED to a new Orion EON 120.

In a nutshell, both scopes were excellent, the AP seemed to have just a tic better resolution, yet the EON 120 seemed to have more moments of fleeting observation of the 6th member of the Trapezium. Maybe this was attributable to coatings, but it could have also been because the objective on the EON 120 was new and very clean while the Star 12ED could have used a cleaning. I don't know for sure, but it is a possibility. Since this comparison, I have upgraded the focuser on the Star 12ED to the AP/FeatherTouch 2.7" model, a big improvement over the original single speed focuser.

These scopes are close in performance. Having either, I would not opt for the other unless the most unbelievable deal of the century is staring you in the face. Keep what you have unless your heart is set on obtaining an AstroPhysics.

Barry Simon

Edited by BarrySimon615 (06/24/13 09:41 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mark9473
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51N 4E
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED *DELETED* *DELETED* new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5937440 - 06/24/13 03:06 AM

Post deleted by Mark9473

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
KWB
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/30/06

Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED *DELETED* new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5937467 - 06/24/13 03:46 AM

How to shorten a link

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BarrySimon615
Pa Bear
*****

Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: KWB]
      #5937642 - 06/24/13 09:14 AM

Just reading between the lines.....hey, please someone let me know how to shorten the link and I will comply. I have never had to shorten a link so let me know how. I will gladly edit my post so a whole line can fit within the margins here.

Regards,

Barry Simon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Cotts
Just Wondering
*****

Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5937671 - 06/24/13 09:37 AM

Here ya go, Barry.

1. Copy the link's URL
2. Open a new post (if you're starting a thread) or a 'reply' if you're in a thread already.
3. See the "Instant UBB Code" box immediately below the window where you type. Click on "URL". Paste the URL in that box. Then click Return.
4. A second dialog box appears. Type a short, suitable phrase or word here (such as 'here', or 'this' or....). This word/phrase will appear in your post in underlined green and will be the link eveyone clicks on. click return.

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BarrySimon615
Pa Bear
*****

Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: Cotts]
      #5937685 - 06/24/13 09:50 AM

Thanks Dave!

I had already figured it out before I read your post as instructions are found in the 1st post in the Refractors Forums. I did my part, now it is up to the other guys with long links to shorten theirs so that the whole thread has shortened lines.

Barry Simon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5937753 - 06/24/13 10:40 AM

Just a point in the favor of the Star12: AP recognizes their old gear and will support it, and it will be compatible with heavy duty upgrades for the duration.

-Rich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
The Ardent
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/24/08

Loc: Virginia
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5937997 - 06/24/13 01:02 PM

Barry
What finder bracket and guide scope holder are you using in the pic?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SteveG
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/27/06

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5938012 - 06/24/13 01:13 PM

Star 12 ED - Beautiful scope! I wanted it sooooo bad back in the 80's.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BarrySimon615
Pa Bear
*****

Reged: 03/01/04

Loc: New Orleans, LA
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: The Ardent]
      #5938149 - 06/24/13 02:32 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

Quote:

Barry
What finder bracket and guide scope holder are you using in the pic?




Before I answer your question let me first echo another reply to the original poster and say "ditto". Ditto to the fact that AstroPhysics can still support what they sell 20 years down the line. When I decided to upgrade the focuser it was an easy thing to do, plus there was none of the typical AstroPhysics wait time! A new two speed focuser was in my hands about a week after I ordered it and screwed on to the end of the tube interface within minutes. Makes focus more accurate and makes the whole process of using the scope more enjoyable.

Now to the question(s) in quotes - the finder bracket is an Antares. This is a two part bracket. This allows you to change out the bracket shown for the larger bracket (91 mm diameter)in a matter of moments. Note - the current larger bracket has a 91 mm I.D., the larger one that I have has a 94 mm I.D

One thing that I did to the mounting part of the bracket (the part that mounts to the interface between the tube and focuser) was to grind the curve in the bracket to match the curve in the interface, making for a more professional look. Takes some time, but it is worth it. I also cut a little bit off of the front end of the bracket to even better match the top surface of the telescope interface part. I painted the cut end with Krylon Semi-Flat Black which is a good match.

The top bracket holding the 60 mm guide scope pictured is a standard Losmandy set (90 mm rings on standard dovetail bases). You will note on the first picture that the 90 mm rings are mounted in the standard position in the middle of each base. Problem with this is that the lower adjusting screw on the starboard side does interfer with the locking screw on the dovetail base. To "fix" this I did redrill holes in the two dovetail bases to move the ring sets to close to the outside edges of the two bases. This spreads the rings (which is good) and eliminates the interferance between the adjusting screw and the locking screw on the base. I also fastened an aluminum plate between the dovetail bases using the original holes that the rings were in. This makes the whole ring and dovetail base(s) a one piece assembly that lets you take mounting brackets with guidescope and dovetail off the main scope as a unit without each individual base with ring set twisting on you and possibly damaging the finish on the guidescope. This allows for a much faster, cleaner and accident free method of removing or exchanging accessory payloads.

See photo.

Barry Simon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5938223 - 06/24/13 03:25 PM

how much is the AP?

AP refractors tend to appreciate over time, while a 120ED is all downhill from the time you buy it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5938672 - 06/24/13 08:31 PM

Thanks very much for all the feedback on my question folks. It's much appreciated

The AP Star 12 ED in question would cost me around 3x as much as I paid for my ED120 (which was pre-owned).

Much to think about !


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5938809 - 06/24/13 10:14 PM

hmmm.. mechanical watches are far less accurate than quartz. and they depreciate! (except Rolex, I guess) but people still buy them.

considering the only marginally better performance of the AP, I'd class it similarly - if you're the type who buys mechanical watches, the AP is for you it is actually a better deal as the AP won't depreciate, it will probably even appreciate.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
t.r.
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 02/14/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: SteveG]
      #5939349 - 06/25/13 09:14 AM

Quote:

Star 12 ED - Beautiful scope! I wanted it sooooo bad back in the 80's.




Me too...but just when I was about to purchase, TV came out with a great deal on the Genesis paired with a 16Nagler to clear the shelves before release of the SDF...I caved! Still, I wish I had bought the AP120...I'd probably still have it as my main refractor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
R Botero
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Loc: Kent, England
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5939847 - 06/25/13 01:59 PM

John

I say, go for it! I came to own a 1992 AP152mm f/7.5 recently which was the first Starfire EDF made and according to some forums one of the only two models made with these specs.
The 6" AP refractor is by far the best telescope I have ever looked through and even on the nights of average to poor seeing we get in England, it is a joy to use.
AP was happy to support its 20+ year product on the phone and by mail whilst I restored it and even had spare parts for the model! It's an exclusive club and you won't be treated by any other company like it - with, perhaps, the exception of Questar.

Good luck!

Roberto


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JonM
super member


Reged: 07/25/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: Astro Physics Star 12 ED new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5940602 - 06/25/13 10:36 PM

If you buy an EON used, you will get your money back and maybe make a hundered. I bought mine for $1100 and sold it for $1300 2.5 years later.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
8 registered and 30 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Scott in NC, FirstSight, panhard, star drop 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 4899

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics