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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 10/19/07

Loc: West Virginia
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5944729 - 06/28/13 12:40 PM

Hello ,


>>>>>>>> #1.5: Achromatic cemented doublet. Two lenses, two air/glass surfaces. Available in a large number of focal lengths from Edmund Optics with military-grade scratch-dig ratios. <<<<<<<<<

Thomas have you or someone you know tried using these doublets as eyepieces ??? Have been hoping someone would give them a shot but it seems no one has.

Leonard


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: leonard]
      #5944768 - 06/28/13 01:08 PM

TV Plossls are very good. Parks GS-5 7.5mm and 10mm, Zeiss Abbe's, Brandons and various other Orthos. To my eyes the TV Plossls are good as the Brandons and are much better off axis. Had a 10mm edmund triplet in a homemade barrel (machined), but couldn't stand the tiny FOV. Dead on.. it was great. Do have a couple of Radians I use more for planet outreach. They are good, but loose a little contrast to the simple EP's
Still like Orthos, TV Plossls and Brandons. My Parks GS5 7.5mm is very good too.


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: tomharri]
      #5944778 - 06/28/13 01:14 PM

Quote:

Sieberts are junk cause he doesn't have access to hi-quality coatings.




So my prewar 9mm Zeiss ortho is junk, 'cause it has no coatings?


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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bremms
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5944782 - 06/28/13 01:18 PM

Yea, throw them in the trash. Send it to me, I have some other junk pre war Zeiss stuff.

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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: leonard]
      #5944786 - 06/28/13 01:21 PM

Quote:

Thomas have you or someone you know tried using these doublets as eyepieces ???




Yes. I had an 18mm, with the lens being the achromatic doublet from an old Kellner. It was extremely good on-axis, with super high contrast. It easily outperformed my 18mm UO ortho, especially on objects with very low contrast. It was insanely sharp as well. It was a killer eyepiece for sunspot details.

Somehow, the lens has gotten damaged and has developed a slightly gray surface on one side. Cleaning didn't seem to help. It hadn't cost me anything, so no economic loss, but I sometimes used it for experiments. It had a very narrow field of view, around 12°, but apart from that, it was comfortable to look through. The performance was best when the flattest side of the lens faced the focal plane, showing much less field curvature then.

I've wanted to make a set from Edmund lenses, but I don't have a lathe and many of these lenses are very small, so high precision is needed. My 18mm was only 6mm in diameter.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Astrojensen
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: bremms]
      #5944790 - 06/28/13 01:23 PM

Quote:

Yea, throw them in the trash. Send it to me, I have some other junk pre war Zeiss stuff.




So that was your cunning plan, you sneaky little bugger! But no way, José! I've got a small collection of prewar Zeiss stuff myself.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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SteveC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: jpcannavo]
      #5944870 - 06/28/13 02:12 PM

Quote:

Perhaps relating the market trend towards wide field, "glass heavy" designs, many of the favored high end planetary EPs are no longer being produced (Zeiss, University Optics HDs, Baader GOs, Pentax SMC XOs, etc.). Curious, therefore, to hear opinions are as to best planetary EPs in current production.

Joe





Inevitably, some respected observers, will comment that all modern eyepieces are equal in on-axis performance. I would agree to that, since the eyepieces that excede the mediocrity of today's offerings are no longer being produced. The one exception might be the Supermonos supplied by APM, if it's the same product that was offered a few years ago. They're not inexpensive though, so that has to be weight into your personal performance/cost equation.

Edited by SteveC (06/28/13 02:14 PM)


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Astrojensen
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: SteveC]
      #5944906 - 06/28/13 02:35 PM

Quote:

Inevitably, some respected observers, will comment that all modern eyepieces are equal in on-axis performance.




That is absolutely not true, in my experience. Not that someone might not say that, but that all eyepieces today are of similar high quality. That is simply not true.

Personal example: My 9mm ES100 is a little bit sharper on-axis than my 8.8mm ES82. The 8.8mm ES82 is on par with the 9mm UO ortho (okay, not made anymore, but made until recently, so still "modern"), but the 9mm ES100 surpass both.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Mike B
Starstruck
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Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: tomharri]
      #5944983 - 06/28/13 03:11 PM

Quote:

Sieberts are junk cause he doesn't have access to hi-quality coatings.



You mean, possibly, hi-complexity coatings? Yes, iirc his have more simple A/R coatings. Like the Brandon EPs are reputed to have. But i wouldn't assume their level isn't "hi-quality".

Quote:

The Pentax XW and Delos are equal to the Zeiss II's on the planets...




Coatings & their application to telescopic viewing is a subject having tremendous degrees of variation among observers.


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SteveC
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5945027 - 06/28/13 03:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Inevitably, some respected observers, will comment that all modern eyepieces are equal in on-axis performance.




That is absolutely not true, in my experience. Not that someone might not say that, but that all eyepieces today are of similar high quality. That is simply not true.

Personal example: My 9mm ES100 is a little bit sharper on-axis than my 8.8mm ES82. The 8.8mm ES82 is on par with the 9mm UO ortho (okay, not made anymore, but made until recently, so still "modern"), but the 9mm ES100 surpass both.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark




I don't doubt your viewing experiences in the least. If I can find differences in on-axis performance, I'm sure you can.

I have issues with the claim that all eyepieces have the same on-axis performance, but note my experiences are limited to those views delivered by modern eyepieces such as Naglers and Panoptics, both of which don't deliver the same sharp on-axis views that my ZAO's and Supermonos do. Of course, the ZAO's and Supermonos don't give me the same wide field views as the Naglers and Panoptics, which is an entirely different perspective and experience.


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tomharri
sage
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Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: USA
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: SteveC]
      #5945088 - 06/28/13 03:53 PM Attachment (46 downloads)

A few months ago when Jupiter was still around, decided to do a 6mm ortho/plossl comparison with the newly out Kasai and Baader classic orthos. Put the 10" Zambuto out to cool off couple hours before using.

First look at Jupiter showed the Great Red Spot just coming around the edge of planet. At that time the little red spot was preceeding the GRS, so it should have been front and centered on Jupiter. But to no avail could I see any sign of the 2nd red spot with any 6mm ortho/plossl pictured below.

Then I remembered had one more 6mm- the new Delos. Popped it in and there was the 2nd red spot, and it even showed some color to it. Less lens count does not mean more detail seen. Quality is quality and you usually gotta pay for it.


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Cliff C
member


Reged: 02/11/09

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... [Re: t.r.]
      #5945111 - 06/28/13 04:08 PM

The best way is to contact Markus by email at;
anfrage@apm-telescopes.de
He had announced that an never before produced but designed by Thomas Back 18mm and 21mm(I believe)were in the works.
Other focal lengths come and go and he occasionally gets used Sumermonos of various focal lengths. The shorter focal lengths (4-6mm) pop up often for $300-$350. I have the 4,5,6 and 14mm's and love them. They are getting very expensive however.


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Nyctophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: george tatsis]
      #5945130 - 06/28/13 04:24 PM

Quote:

By the way, the NLVs are a bit brighter than the old LV series , which I used to have too.

Still looking for a used NLV 4mm , but I haven't been able to nail one though

George




I wonder how an NLV 4mm would compare to a Radian 4mm?


Mike


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amicus sidera
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/14/11

Loc: East of the Sun, West of the M...
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5945201 - 06/28/13 05:02 PM

RKE's (8mm and 12mm) get the job done. Three elements, no waiting...

Fred


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jtpowers
more clever in the first place
*****

Reged: 11/03/05

Loc: Cambridge, MA
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5945270 - 06/28/13 05:43 PM

The following are the best I've tried:

TeleVue Plossls 8mm, 11mm.
Pentax XO 5.1mm
Vixen LVW 8mm (I like the view better than an 8mm Ethos I had at the same time. The LVW had better on axis contrast and it was perhaps a tad sharper- I couldn't believe it)

Other notes: I've not been terribly impressed by the 0.965 Pentax orthos (I've only tested one 6mm and one 7mm though). I found myself more impressed with 6 and 7mm UO Abbes that I was head to head testing at the time.


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
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Reged: 01/12/09

Loc: Land of clouds and LP
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5945272 - 06/28/13 05:44 PM

I've used lots of eyepieces and while the TMB Supermonos, showed a tiny bit more details on planets and planetary nebula, I didn't like using them. I liked using the Brandons less.

Lately I tried a few Orthos (from Edmunds and UO) and both showed almost as much planetary details as the TMB.

Now here is the big BUTT, the day that the TMBs showed more was around 2 years ago. The air was stopped and I was easily using 400 power on my SCT. Seeing and transparency were essentially perfect.

Recently I tried Brandons in my EON and SCT and a few DOBs and they showed nothing more than the UO. Actually the Meade and Nagler kept up with them.

But to preface this I am not a super faint fuzzy finder, if I can't see it, its time to look for something else.

So the answer to your question is.....

The few times a year that seeing and transperancy are superb, an Ortho, Brandon or TMB will be a better planetary eyepiece, every other time it makes no difference.

Edited by hfjacinto (06/28/13 05:44 PM)


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george tatsis
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/20/08

Loc: Flushing, NY - Europe
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5945298 - 06/28/13 05:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

By the way, the NLVs are a bit brighter than the old LV series , which I used to have too.

Still looking for a used NLV 4mm , but I haven't been able to nail one though

George




I wonder how an NLV 4mm would compare to a Radian 4mm?


Mike




Mike,

Would you stop reading my mind please?

George


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Nyctophobia, Maryland, USA
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: george tatsis]
      #5945366 - 06/28/13 06:47 PM

Now you'll have me looking for a used NLV 4mm!


Mike


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SteveC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... new [Re: tomharri]
      #5945386 - 06/28/13 06:59 PM

Quote:


Then I remembered had one more 6mm- the new Delos. Popped it in and there was the 2nd red spot, and it even showed some color to it. Less lens count does not mean more detail seen. Quality is quality and you usually gotta pay for it.




I don't doubt your statement that the 6mm Delos was better than those other 6mm eyepieces. Fewer lens in the eyepiece may not offer the best view, but some do. I had about 13-15 7mm eyepieces several years ago that I spent countless hours observing through. A bunch of those 7mm orthos and plossls could only equal, and many were even outperformed by the Radian that was in the mix. The Radian was the most expensive eyepiece in that pool of "good" performers and I was impressed by the fact that it did so well considering the number of elements it had. I would have kept the Radian as a planetary eyepiece had it not been for the performance of the Supermono. I added the ZAO I's(sold) and II's later. I've given up trying to find a performance difference between my ZAO II's, Supermonos, and the 5mm Pentax XO, but if the Supermonos are the benchmark, then I'm quite sure all of them would outperform those other orthos and plossls.

Somebody should do a planetary on axis comparison between the 6mm Delos, Ethos, ZAO II, and Supermono.


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Best planetary EPs being made today... [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5945390 - 06/28/13 07:01 PM

My immediate response would historically be Brandons; however, that was when Don Yeier was making them. Everything I've ever gotten from him has been the very best I've ever used.
My understanding is that the new owners of Vernonscope are maintaining the high quality standards, though. So, Brandons.


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