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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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auriga
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/02/06

Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5958132 - 07/06/13 08:21 PM

Dobs feel very competitive with SCT's and will rarely give them compliments. SCTs and refractors get along a lot better and often exchange compliments. Mak Cass scopes are admired by all and they know it.
Bill


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: auriga]
      #5958283 - 07/06/13 11:15 PM

Quote:

Dobs feel very competitive with SCT's and will rarely give them compliments. SCTs and refractors get along a lot better and often exchange compliments. Mak Cass scopes are admired by all and they know it.
Bill




Bill:

My Dobs get along fabulously with my refractors, like they were made for each other... complimentary rather than competitive.

Jon


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5958352 - 07/07/13 12:49 AM

There is no doubt you would see a difference going from the 8 inch SCT to a 10 inch dob. Maybe not enough for what you are looking for. There are a few things to consider. Collimation is one. It's critically important with a fast focal ratio scope. Looking at your scopes your 8 inch is the only one that requires collimation. So take into account getting some sort of collimation tool set. If you go truss dob it will be even more important.

Weight should be a concern. How willing will you be to move around a big scope. Will you be OK with setting all that up for a session.

Based on your preferences I'd say at least get a scope with some finding capability. The folks that sell the Apertura scopes have a setting circle setup which can be used on other scopes as well. I'd consider that at least if you don't get another alternative.

As far as tube dobs go, I'd rather have a 10 inch than a 12 inch. I find the 12 inch F5 tube dobs are just too big for me. The 10 is plenty to handle. Truss dob wise, I think a 15 inch by a quality manufacturer would be OK (Telekit, Obsession, Starmaster, Teeter). If going Meade or Orion, check the weights and choose accordingly.

I don't know how much effort it is to setup a truss dob. I did watch a friend of mine setup a 16 inch at a dark site and it looked like a bit of a pain. So I guess my opinion is unless you keep it together all the time at home, you may not feel like setting it up. If you are getting it mostly for travel situations, then that would be OK.

I like tube dobs in that they are very quick and easy to setup. Collimation mostly holds...but with a fast scope you should check it every time you setup or move the scope.

If you can stretch your budget a bit, I've seen really good deals on high end dobs with tracking/finding capabilites. Most of the time they are pickup only though. Still, I have seen scopes that cost $9000 new go for $4000. It's a little gamble but can be very nice savings.

I like the Intelliscope for light pollution because I can use it if I am getting frustated trying to find something...or I can not use it and the scope acts exactly the same. No tracking, but if DSOs are your thing that's not much of an issue.

Don't be afraid of the 10 inch though...I still think that would be a valid companion to your 8. Really would be used for different objects in my opinion. But certainly going bigger will provide more difference. I find 8/10/12 to be in one class. Then 14/15/16 to be in another class. 15 is probably as big as I would go truss wise. One that is small enough to not require a step stool.


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5958616 - 07/07/13 09:08 AM

Thanks for that well thought out explanation and your suggestions. Maybe the 10" Intel scope from Orion may be the ticket as I do have LP to deal with and don't want to have to crane my neck all the time looking for faint fuzzies?

Also, if I go this route, can I get away without spending another $500 on a Paracor on a $800 scope! I do have a set of excellent EP's. I see Orion has a sale on them and perhaps free shipping?


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5958666 - 07/07/13 10:05 AM

The Apertura AD10 with the pre-installed setting circle would be a good option also. That has free shipping and would be quite a bit less then the Intelliscope. I don't exactly know how good the setting circle thing works...I'm guessing it's not quite as good as having a hand controller, but may have some benefits over one as well.

You could be $600 out the door with that one. I'd consider the tweakers package as well. I personally would get that because I didn't enjoy flocking my tube and rather have someone else do it for me.

I think if I were getting a scope today it would be the AD10 with the setting circle and tweaker package.

All that being said, the Orion 10i is a great telescope. And if it's on sale with free shipping that wouldn't be too bad. But the AD10 has some pretty nice features and with the setting circle addition it provides a finding capability.


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5958717 - 07/07/13 10:56 AM

That's not a bad idea as a friend of mine got the tweakers package on the 12" one. What about using my Iphone on it and using some app to take the place of the intelliscope feature? I have Sky Safari Plus on the phone.

So it is $640 with the upgrade and free shipping.


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GOLGO13
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/05/05

Loc: St. Louis area
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5958895 - 07/07/13 12:53 PM

Yep...I think you could use sky safari for the coordinates and just move the scope to the right area. Hopefully someone on here who has used setting circles on their dobs could chime in. I know one guy on here who set one up himself and seemed to like it.

Try and email the folks at Opticsmart. One of the guys posts on this site quite often. The customer service seems to be very high for their products.


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5958935 - 07/07/13 01:18 PM

Good idea, I'll send them an email about this question. I have read some really good reviews on the AD10 and the outstanding customer service at Opticsmart.

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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: GOLGO13]
      #5958949 - 07/07/13 01:26 PM

IF you have room to store it, have a car that can transport it, No Brainer.. get the 12"
You will be awed and amazed with the 12" compaired to the 8".
Just impressed with the 10"
My own personal past experience. now I have the C14..
but it is a PAIN in the A*S to set up by yourself.


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mark379
sage
*****

Reged: 02/07/09

Loc: New Jersey
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5960338 - 07/08/13 11:04 AM

Quote:

That's not a bad idea as a friend of mine got the tweakers package on the 12" one. What about using my Iphone on it and using some app to take the place of the intelliscope feature? I have Sky Safari Plus on the phone.

So it is $640 with the upgrade and free shipping.




You may be a little more able to get away without a paracoor with the apertura/ Zhumel vs the orion 10" the AD 10 is F/5 while the Orion is F 4.7. A Paracoor will help out more so , and they come up used on Astromart often.
I picked up one for 200 a few years back to use with my Orion 10 & 14".
One note on 10 vs 12" If you find a truss 12" and are ok with the extra setup time, it will show more in the way of DSO's than the 10", bot not too much I find. The truss may make it worth your while though.


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: mark379]
      #5960685 - 07/08/13 02:47 PM

Thanks for your comment Mark. I do not plan to travel a lot with it, just occasionally and I'm not sure a 12" tube would fit in my back seat of my car. Other than that, it would stay set up in my house for a short trip outdoors to my backyard. I do have to be concerned about weight with back problems. I understand the OTA of the 12" is 47lbs and that may be too much? My 8" SCT OTA is only 30lbs. and that is ok, but don't know about 40+lbs. If the extra 2" over a 10" Dob is only subtle and don't "blow my socks off" then probably stay with a 10"

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mark379
sage
*****

Reged: 02/07/09

Loc: New Jersey
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5960814 - 07/08/13 04:11 PM

Probably best then to stay with the 10"... I have back issues too and that is the main reason I only use the 14" 2-3 times a year, even though it is a truss style.
a 12" tube style was too much for my back, but I get by with the truss because I can hold the lower OTA close to my chest when carrying. I also use a brace with the big scope too. The 10" tube dob is no trouble. If the 12" were a truss, then I can see it possibly working for you too...
Best,
Mark


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: mark379]
      #5960878 - 07/08/13 04:43 PM

Mark, so looking at your scopes, you seem to be an avid stargazer! So from your experience with your C8 as do, do you see a pretty good differance on DSO's with your 10" DOB and worth getting one?

BTW, I am on the fringe of red zone and on a good night see magnitude 5 overhead. I have a pretty hard time making out say M51 and M33 as an example in my 8" SCT. If I could see them in a 10" DOB, than it's worth adding to my scope choices.

Thanks,

Bob


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auriga
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/02/06

Re: Dob to compliment my 8' SCT? new [Re: REC]
      #5961080 - 07/08/13 07:16 PM

A key factor is where you are going to store the scope. If you need to store it indoors in your house or apartment or condo, and take it outside through doors and steps, this implies a small scope.

If however you can store it in your garage, you can arrange to add wheels to it or get a two wheeled dolly and simply wheel the scope out of the garage. Check out the threads on wheels on this forum, some of them instigated by me. If you can simply wheel it in and out of your garage, and only occasionally take it to a dark sky, that implies a 12".

A second factor is truss tubes. These are essential at 12"of aperture in my opinion, to avoid back trouble. But trusses are more expensive than solid tubes, so you have to factor expense into your decision. Truss tubes are highly recommended if you want to transport a telescope larger than 10" to a dark sky.

As many have said in this thread, a jump from 8 to 12" is a very worthwhile jump, a very dramatic improvement.. A jump from 8" to 10" will give a noticeable improvement but not a highly dramatic one.

With modern eyepieces available, I would strongly recommend faster than f/6, say f5 or f4.5, on a 10" or even f/4 on a 12.5" if you are willing to use a Paracorr .

As for me I have been observing for decades with Dobs from of many apertures, so I feel reasonably confident of my recommendations, but of course everything depends on your own preferences, we are all individuals with our own ideas and experiences.

Best of luck with your decision.

Bill


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