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General Astronomy >> Beginners Forum

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lilfeet
journeyman


Reged: 06/29/13

Loc: Arky
Help with M-13 . new
      #5948067 - 06/30/13 01:28 PM


Just getting back into stargazing after a few years off. I have an 8 inch dob and a 5 inch mak. Trying to find M-13 with the dob and I'm having no luck. I've seen M-57 and a few double stars while waiting for M 13. I've viewed it many times from this location before. For some reason I can't seem to find it anymore, I think it's still there. I can't make out the fourth star any where,so I don't really know if I'm looking in the right place. Someone please tell where to look,besides up Thanks .


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David Knisely
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5948084 - 06/30/13 01:46 PM

Quote:


Just getting back into stargazing after a few years off. I have an 8 inch dob and a 5 inch mak. Trying to find M-13 with the dob and I'm having no luck. I've seen M-57 and a few double stars while waiting for M 13. I've viewed it many times from this location before. For some reason I can't seem to find it anymore, I think it's still there. I can't make out the fourth star any where,so I don't really know if I'm looking in the right place. Someone please tell where to look,besides up Thanks .




You need to find the "Keystone" of Hercules; a set of four widely-spaced stars that form a rhombus and the top of the body of the constellation. The western side stars of the Keystone is where you will need to look. About a third of the way from the top star of the west side of the keystone (Eta Herculis) to the bottom star (Zeta Herculis) is where M13 is located. In a finderscope, it is flanked by two 6th and 7th magnitude stars about half a degree apart, so that may help you in finding it. A good finder is helpful here, along with a good star atlas like the Sky and Telescope Pocket Sky Atlas. Good luck and clear skies to you.


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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5948086 - 06/30/13 01:46 PM

Are you able to identify the four corner stars of Hercules' torso (aka the keystone)? As you look at his body, M-13 is below his shoulder/armpit on the right side- from our perspective. The cluster is about 1/3 of the way down, right on the line between his shoulder and hip.

By the way, welcome!


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tim57064
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/23/12

Loc: Southeast South Dakota,USA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5948129 - 06/30/13 02:16 PM

If you can see M57 and are waiting for M13? M13 being in the constellation Hercules is to the west of the Ring. I apologize if you are already aware of this,not trying to be a smart aleck. Do you have a smart phone and have google sky maps installed? That has helped me tremendously to remember the constellations and where and what things are.

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Ed Wiley
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: tim57064]
      #5948179 - 06/30/13 02:52 PM

One of the best resources for finding Messier objects is Pennington's "The Year-Round Messier Marathon." He explains the "geometric method" using a Telrad. I found this method invaluable when I did the Messier list where digital setting circles and go-to are not allowed and continue to use the geometric method on other targets.

Ed


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tim57064
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/23/12

Loc: Southeast South Dakota,USA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5948189 - 06/30/13 02:59 PM

Another quick question for you. What eyepiece were you using? A much lower power eyepiece with a wide field ,32mm or a 40mm 60 degree or more will help with locating since they give a wider field of view. Just my 2 cents.

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lilfeet
journeyman


Reged: 06/29/13

Loc: Arky
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: Ed Wiley]
      #5948221 - 06/30/13 03:18 PM

Hey,thanks for the quick tips and info. I have about one hour before and after zenith going east to west. So I don't have a lot of time trying to find things.About the same to the south.Good veiw to the north but that's the worst light pollution. Like I said just getting back into it and just having a hard time getting everything orientated in my limited veiwing range.

I use 25mm 32mm and 40mm when searching,32 mm most of the time.

Edited by lilfeet (06/30/13 03:22 PM)


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FoggyEyes
sage


Reged: 06/01/13

Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5950108 - 07/01/13 06:09 PM

Buy "Turn Left At Orion". The most recent edition is written around finding stuff with a Dob.

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astroment
member


Reged: 06/25/13

Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: FoggyEyes]
      #5950200 - 07/01/13 07:21 PM

Try to find Lyra Vega is the brightest star up then Hercules
I have been seeing it up high this year here's a map I found
doing a google search
http://earthsky.org/clusters-nebulae-galaxies/m13-finest-globular-cluster-in-...
I see you have found M57 in Lyra
M13 it's a stretch looking for it on the keystone just to let you know you will be looking straight up for it


Edited by astroment (07/01/13 07:33 PM)


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lamplight
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/18/12

Loc: western MA, U.S.
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: astroment]
      #5950368 - 07/01/13 09:21 PM

Hi

cant really add anything new but yes, its to the right and higher overhead than m57. Once you find it once its quite easy to return too, I can find it with just a telrad in light pollution. My method is to look at the object on a star chart and then point my scope to the same place in the sky.. for a relatively bright object like this it is visibke in the finder. Another approach is start at one of the twotop stars of the keystone and sweep your scope towards the opposite while refering to findersxope views and charts as you go -the starhop

if you only have a short window id go for that one soon after dark as its near zenith early in the night now. Good luck and have fun!


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jerwin
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 05/17/12

Loc: Romeoville IL
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lamplight]
      #5950947 - 07/02/13 09:16 AM

I draw a line between Arcturus and Vega, that helps me position Hercules the right way. M13 is in that part of the quadrilateral closer to Arcturus.

Clear Skies,
Jim


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uniondrone
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/05/09

Loc: Streetlight Archipelago
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: jerwin]
      #5950970 - 07/02/13 09:30 AM


As others have said, learn to find the keystone of Hercules with your naked-eye first. Then learn where in the keystone to find M13. Then use your lowest power eyepiece when locating it. With an 8-inch dob and about 40x magnification, it should be almost point-and-find.


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ffraley
member


Reged: 03/12/13

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: uniondrone]
      #5951221 - 07/02/13 11:58 AM

I found it last week, it's the very first object I've ever looked for and found, other than planets and a couple of obvious doubles. I may not be much help, but I can describe what my problems were, and what worked. BTW, I used "Turn Left at Orion" and never took my smartphone out, it just confused things.

First, facing generally southeast, I found Arcturus and put it on my right. Then I put Vega on mt left to make a line I could work from. Then I stood still. Looked right to Corona Borealis, a big smile 1/3 of the way from Arcturus to Vega. Then left again to the Keystone shape half way between Corona Borealis and Vega. Then right to the star in the upper right corner.

Repeatedly making that line with back and forth was very helpful for me. Every time I turned or looked away I lost my orientation - since I was using a refractor and looking pretty high, I had to relax and look away often. Each time I redrew it was a little bit quicker and a bit more secure. I redrew it about a dozen times. I found it helped to stand up, keep my feet and body still, move mainly my eyes and head as little as possible to find things, then go to the finder while sort of keeping one eye on the spot in the sky.

Each time I started fresh by relocating that top right star in the finder and centering it. then moving about 1/3 of the way toward the bottom right star. And on about the dozenth try there was a fuzzy spot :-)

May sound crazy, disjointed, and simplistic; it worked for me.

My biggest problems were (are?)
-- getting the 6x30 finder on the right single star
-- getting and maintaining an orientation of what is where and which direction is which
-- realizing that if it's not there, it's not there. Start over from a known correct point.


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Kraus
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/10/12

Loc: Georgia.
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: ffraley]
      #5951313 - 07/02/13 12:58 PM


Sure are a lot of folks spend a lot of time finding objects then have to nudge the tube along to keep the object in view.

Go equatorial, go permanent.


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ffraley
member


Reged: 03/12/13

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: Kraus]
      #5951333 - 07/02/13 01:15 PM

That's why I used the refractor. Well, that and it was easier to haul for vacation. But really made no difference in finding the object, though.

I have both and it really seems to be a wash. That's probably another thread, though.


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bob irvin
sage


Reged: 03/22/11

Loc: Greater Los Angeles, CA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5951534 - 07/02/13 03:31 PM

Make sure you're looking at the (correct) 4 stars that make up the center of Hercules. I couldn't find M13 for the longest time because I was looking at the wrong 4 stars. Once you figure out which stars those are M13 is pretty straight forward to find given the advice already given.

bob


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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: lilfeet]
      #5952492 - 07/03/13 03:21 AM

M13 forms a near right triangle with Pi and Eta Herculis at the "top" of the Keystone. There's a finder chart for M13 at http://freestarcharts.com/index.php/20-guides/messier/91-messier-13-m13-great... and a Telrad finder chart at http://www.atmob.org/library/member/skymaps/MAP9.PDF

Dave Mitsky


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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5952661 - 07/03/13 08:15 AM

Maybe you are in light pollution that is not easy to see Hercules. If you can see 4 stars and use 7 or 10 X 50 binocular and you can find a fuzzy blob is M13. Then you know where is it then use your telescope! Good luck!

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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Help with M-13 . new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5952804 - 07/03/13 09:58 AM

Yep, always found it looking just south of Eta. Easy to see in most finder scopes. Has the OP found it yet?

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Seldom
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/05/12

Loc: N of Cedar City Light Dome
Re: Help with M-13 . [Re: REC]
      #5952960 - 07/03/13 11:43 AM

+1 on David Knisely's recommendation of the Pocket Sky Atlas, but his reference to a rhombus could cause some confusion if you expect to find M13 in one. The keystone is a trapezoid.

Note that the PSA has a list of Messier objects on the last page.


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