Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
I have inoperable aperture fever, money in my pocket to purchase new binos, and a strange fascination with Google. All of this means I have some new links to share with the group regarding giant 100mm+ binos.
Before I share the links, a brief comment.
A couple of days ago, I posted a message in the Yahoo Bino-Astro group. Basically, it was a re-hash of my 100mm bino wish list of features I would like to see on mass-market giant binoculars. I ended the message with a hope that Kevin from Oberwerk or someone of equal importance at Celestron or Orion would read my wish list and think on it.
Lo and behold, Kevin read my post and responded, and in doing so he revealed the coming of the BT-80/45. While it is a step in the right direction, it still does not meet my criteria - not enough glass, 80mm just won't punch through the light pollution around here. But I must thank Kevin for being so attentive to his customers and potential customers. It's not often you see those responsible for our selection of binos taking such an interest in what the poor little guy says. (Ok, I'm poor but nearly 6'4", so I'm not little, but you get the point). Thanks again Kevin and I will wait patiently for those 30X120mm big guns.
Ok, on with the links.
30x100mm Giant Bino offered by another Kunming entity :
(Pictures and some features, but short on specifications)
http://www.united-optics.com/products/ast-series/astr-s-3/astr-s-3.htm
Some photos (with scant details) of "misc. large binoculars", including
a 32x100 Chinese bino and links to Japanese/German large binos. There is even a Zeiss Giant
bino that I have never heard of :
http://20thbinocular.tripod.com/misc_large_binoculars.html
Zhumell is offering a 25/40X120mm binocular (no image yet and not many details) for $2500.00 :
http://www.zhumell.com/html/detail.asp?PID=38447
Reference to a "110mm Big Sea Binocular" shown on an old fork mount :
http://www.nevski.nm.ru/eng/observatory/tools.html
20X80 and 25x100 "Monk Observer" that resembles the Celestron Skymaster models :
http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Astronomy/observer.html
Binos similar to those owned by GatorEngineer -
Belgian "TAL" binoculars - 110mm objectives :
http://www.taeym.be/binoculars.htm
A 30X180mm bino and a 20X140mm binocular - huge size and price :
http://www.astrostuff.com/Worlds_largest_Binoculars_30x180A.htm
I'd specifically like to ask Kenny (or one of the other fine gents from across the drink) if he has ever heard of the "Monk" brand of binos which appear suspiciously similar to the Celestron Skymaster model.
And if anyone finds a link to a QUALITY 30X100 bino, please post the link....provided said binocular does not exceed my $500-$1000 price point.
Thanks for indulging me...
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1016
|
|
I've read elsewhere that the astrostuff-advertized binos are no longer available. If so, wonder why they keep the page around. I mentioned that there IS a pair of the 180mm (but with terrestrial coatings) available on ebay- look up "giant binocular" on the search engine. The fellow is asking $4700 or best offer for them. Only one actually for sale I've ever seen.
Jess Tauber
|
BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
|
|
OMG. It is a darn good thing I don't have the money.
I'd be ordering. If they don't sell, maybe they will be re-listed and allow some real bidding to go on.
What a score for like $2500 those would be. For faint DSO's I am sure the coating are fine.
Man, I wish I were in a position to try to get these.
|
BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
|
|
I see one offer on those 180's. And that offer says expired on it? What does that mean?
I'd offer $2500 in a heart beat. I mean how unique and cool would it be to own these things?
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
Quote:
Man, I wish I were in a position to try to get these.
You and me both. I wonder what the lenses alone are worth? Even the 20X140mm sounds interesting, but I wonder why only 20X? I bet they didn't sell too many of these things. I don't recall any mention of the mount required.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
|
|
Yeah, I'd build me a custom Alt/Azi something for them. 
It seems they were attemtping to keep the exit pupil near 7??? On the mag with these things.
PS: I am going to check things out some, I think Iam going to offer the $2500.00, they can only say "no" right?
|
KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
< I'd specifically like to ask Kenny (or one of the other fine gents from across the drink) if he has ever heard of the "Monk" brand of binos which appear suspiciously similar to the Celestron Skymaster model >
Hi Mike ,
Monk Optics is a well respected company of long standing , which sells binoculars of all shape and sizes .
As you will probably realise , the name " MONK " occasionally appears on a data plate of a model the company decides to put out with it's own " brand name " attached to it , as , for example my CAPTAIN'S HELMSMAN is a name chosen to represent CAPTAIN'S NAUTICAL in Seattle.
In the case of the " CAPTAIN'S " , I happen to know that the person who " hand -picked " that model as being worthy of representation of the Captain's name , is a person who knows more than a thing or two about binoculars .
I cannot say the same thing about ALL binoculars bearing the name " MONK " -- but that is only because I don't actually " KNOW " who selects the models to represent that name .
I DO know that at least ONE model bearing the name " MONK " represents excellent value for money , but it is not a GIANT bino .
Sorry if this hasn't helped too much , Mike .
To be honest , I don't really spend too much time checking out all these GIANT BINO links which are posted to this forum from time to time , but I get the impression that MOST are made in China , and quality is variable , and in some cases , up to a point , REQUESTABLE .
I might look into this in more detail if and when I find the time .
At this moment in time , I'm trying to celebrate a rare ASHES victory .
The game of cricket is even more difficult to understand and explain than the game of binocular manufacturing and promotion .
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
|
gatorengineer
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 725
Loc: Hellertown, PA
|
|
the 25/40 x 120's are listed at 1700 at binoculars.com. LONG lead time though. Looks like the 120mm aperature barrier is cracking.....
--------------------
16" & 20" Dobs
4" Triplet Refractor
10" LX200R OTA
8"F20 Dall Kirkham
12.5" F3.5 Newt
CGE
Lots of binos---
Nikon 8x30, 10x35, Prostars,10W/18 x 70 astrolux; 10x50 Fujis. Collectors items 12x60 BLC, 10x80 Flaks, Gas Masks, US Mark 28, 30, 41, 43's
Telescopes Past - 8" Stf Mak, C8, Meade LX10-10", SN8, TAL150K, Orion 150MC, Jason 60mm refractor, ATM 6" F8, WO 110FLT, 92mm Off Axis Newt, Nikon 20x120 bino's, 15x110 Boarderguards, Kuhne Flaks
|
Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 3363
Loc: NJ USA
|
|
How about the "110mm Battleship Binocular" "This 25X powerful ships binocular sports a 5*+ field of view. FOV " that is on ebay. To get 25x from a 110mm binocular with 5° FOV it would need more than 90° AFOV.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED
Meade 102ED APO
Orion EON 72
120ST
Apex 127
C6 XLT
CR150
C9.25
XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL
Canon 10x42L IS WP
15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45
Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
Quote:
To be honest , I don't really spend too much time checking out all these GIANT BINO links which are posted to this forum from time to time , but I get the impression that MOST are made in China , and quality is variable , and in some cases , up to a point , REQUESTABLE
I am beginning to see the same exact thing with all of these huge binoculars. 90% of them are made in China and are of varying quality, the other 10% are made in Japan/Germany/Russia and they sport an exhorbitant price tag.
As near as I can tell, the following brands might as well be one and the same :
Barska, Celestron, Apogee, Zhumell, Vixen, and Orion. They all look different cosmetically, but performance-wise they are all the same creature. Take a 25x100 bino from each of these manufacturers, strip them of identifying labels, and place them side by side and I seriously doubt that anyone (including the legendary EdZ) could demonstrate a single, major difference in performance. From the $100 Barskas all the way up to the $600 Vixens, they are all Chinese-made giant binos that suffer from (according to the body of reviews) inferior-grade optics.
Quote:
Monk Optics is a well respected company of long standing
Thanks Kenny. Actually, I found your reply to be helpful. That is what I was seeking - to find out if Monk was a reputable name.
Back to my rambling about mass-market giant binos though...
Then there are the small-market binos like : Burgess, Docter, and Parks. BTW, what has anyone heard about Parks brand binos? I noticed their 25x100 model does not have any kind of cross-support between the objectives. But the marketing appears to imply that Park is a "high end" bino. I've never heard of them, here or elsewhere. Does anyone have any experience with this brand?
What is a man with a $500 budget and a bewildering array of choices to do? Buy Oberwerk, that's what.
Quote:
Looks like the 120mm aperature barrier is cracking.....
I certainly hope so. And by cracking, I hope you mean that MOST will be able to eventually afford them. Right now, at these $2000+ prices, only the dedicated few can afford to drop that kind of cash on a bino, sight unseen. I don't begrudge those who can afford them now, I would just like to see some of these binos (and their features) trickle down in the sub-$1000 club.
Maybe if I hit the lottery, I will contact Kunming and have them start producing my dream bino in large batches....
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
BluewaterObserva
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 4763
Loc: Zuni Mtns, NM
|
|
I have a very short I.D., I'd have to make sure the 30x180's would actually work for me.
Owning an observatory, especially one that I hope to eventually be professional merrit makes something like the 30x180's a little more reasonable of a purchase.
On the Chnia born 100mm binoculars. They are highly use-able, enjoyable instruments to observe with. The bang for buck DSO performance is through the roof. They are an excellent fit for most people. But if your picky about optics and build quality they would certianly not be for you.
|
HfxObserver
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 624
Loc: Waterloo ON, Canada
|
|
I just spoke with Zhumell and the 20/40X120 binoculars are expected to be in stock the middle of October, at that time they will take images, and post further details.
I'm very interested in these since my 22X100 far exceeded expectations but I find that a few objects would benefit greatly from slightly more aperature. For example M22 begins to resolve and I get hints of resolution in M55 and M13 as well, but I think with more aperature they would appear granular. Also, obects like NGC6559 look great with averted vision but fade out with direct vision, another 20mm aperature would definitly provide more detail.
I observe at several sites under mag.6-->mag.7 skies.
These Zhumell Parallax would be a nice largest aperature bino, providing a 4.8mm exit pupil at 25X would be sweet!
-Chris
--------------------
Chris
7X50 Vixen,22X100 Antares
80mm William Optics Megrez II ED
Santel MK6
Borg 125SD f6 (Pentax/Oasis version)
Tak-Lapides
Pentax XW's 40,20,14,10,3.5 3.8XP, Speers 5-8, 30mm Widescan III
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Quote:
Barska, Celestron, Apogee, Zhumell, Vixen, and Orion. They all look different cosmetically, but performance-wise they are all the same creature.
MikeG
This is incorrect. We have demonstrated evidence to this effect many times on this forum. Actually I get a little weary of repeating this same thing over and over, but alas, the same myth is repeated over and over. Such is the nature of the internet.
Please refer to the Best Of link They all look the same what could be different.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
Quote:
This is incorrect. We have demonstrated evidence to this effect many times on this forum. Actually I get a little weary of repeating this same thing over and over, but alas, the same myth is repeated over and over. Such is the nature of the internet.
Please refer to the Best Of link They all look the same what could be different.
edz
I am guilty of the crime of over-generalization again. I agree, yes and no. In terms of splitting hairs (or in your case, tight binary pairs) there are certainly some differences that are quantifiable in the Celestron/Orion/Apogee/etc field. One may have a slight difference in coatings, another may reach .1 to .4 magnitudes "deeper", while others may have very slight variations in functionality, but when one boils the whole mess down, what you get is a gumbo of Chinese binos that for all practical intents and purposes are the same.
I have read almost every single review and article that is stickied to the top of this forum - especially in regards to giant-class 100mm binos. I am not just throwing out arbitrary judgements here, I am simply relating what I have read in the body of reviews here on CN and elsewhere.
I have noticed a trend in the reviews of these binos :
1) the vast majority of reviews on all giant binos is "good" or "decent". Almost all claim their particular bino has good bang-for-the-buck factor. But all (almost without exception) decry the loss of FOV clarity at the edges. One model may have better fit and finish, one may come with a soft padded case versus the hard aluminum, but if you put one of these Chinese binos in a side-by-side comparison test with a Japanese or German bino of the same aperture, the Japanese/German model always wins hands down.
2) Almost every review (again, with scant exception) of high-end Japanese giant binos is a glowing love affair of superior optics, tight build quality, and crisp edge to edge performance. The only exceptions have been factory defects that are not representative of the overall model line and cases where the binos arrived out of collimation.
So I will admit you are correct that my statement, taken on it's face, is incorrect. But I believe the spirit of the statement is valid to a good degree. I may lack the background in the sciences to carry out empirical evaluations on each aspect of these binos, but I can read hundreds of user reviews and come to a reasonable conclusion based on the body of reviews.
Interesting to note as well - I have never once read a "bad" review of the Oberwerk giant binos. Every Oberwerk owner claims to be satisified with their purchase, and if they weren't to start with, then Kevin made it right. I cannot say the same for the other Chinese binos based on the reviews.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
refractory
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/05/05
Posts: 1016
|
|
For those of you who haven't seen the ebay listing, its no. 6167402780 (just enter this into the URL slot after deleting some other number from some other item if you can't otherwise find it). Seller is offering a Losmandy Pier to go with it for a couple more thousand. I had asked him about the binos a while back- apparently the eps aren't switchable- this and the coatings make them less appealing for me at least. Nice lines though, you have to admit...
By the way, since I am always perusing the ebay bino lists anyway, would there be any interest in my reporting the more interesting finds here on the CloudyNights bino discussion (since they do this in the vintage telescope discussion I guess it isn't verboten)?
For instance, a Bausch and Lomb 9x63 Mark 37 from WWII (so seller says)- item 6559745911 (but seller is asking for a hefty $269+). Recent B&L binos aren't usually considered that high-quality, and WWII-era didn't have much in the way of coatings. But its an unusual size for the time.
Jess Tauber
|
KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 10163
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
< As near as I can tell, the following brands might as well be one and the same :
Barska, Celestron, Apogee, Zhumell, Vixen, and Orion. >
This is definitely NOT TRUE .
SOME Celestrons and MOST VIXENS and ORIONS were DEFINITELY made in JAPAN .
I'm not sure even sure about Apogee and Zhumell .
From that list of six , only BARSKA I know for certain as being made in China .
Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Quote:
1) the vast majority of reviews on all giant binos is "good" or "decent". Almost all claim their particular bino has good bang-for-the-buck factor. But all (almost without exception) decry the loss of FOV clarity at the edges. One model may have better fit and finish, one may come with a soft padded case versus the hard aluminum, but if you put one of these Chinese binos in a side-by-side comparison test with a Japanese or German bino of the same aperture, the Japanese/German model always wins hands down.
2) Almost every review (again, with scant exception) of high-end Japanese giant binos is a glowing love affair of superior optics, tight build quality, and crisp edge to edge performance. The only exceptions have been factory defects that are not representative of the overall model line and cases where the binos arrived out of collimation.
How many reviews do you read where the owner is comparing binoculars side-by side. I don't find that in those types of comparisons that all binoculars are great. I'd probably have to agree that all are decent, but often there is a winner and a loser.
I've tested and written about a few Japanese manufacture binoculars that I found inferior to some Chinese binoculars. Maybe not in build quality, but definitely in performance. The comparison of the Oberwerk 15x70 versus the Orion 16x80 (Vixen?, definitely made in Japan) comes to mind. I sent the 16x80 back because it was more costly and didn't perform as well.
So I don't agree with the above two assessments or generalizations. In fact I think quite differently. And I think the documentation is out there in the reviews to be found. But it could very well be that people read what they want to read, and not all that is written.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
Uh oh, I stirred up the soup!
I had almost qualified my entries on the list because of the Celestrons and Orions having Japanese models. I guess I should have.
However, if you look at the GIANT binos made by Orion and Celestron currently, they are in fact Chinese. I am referring to the Explorer line by Orion and the Skymaster line by Celestron. Both are Chinese and neither represent the best of their respective dealers. Celestron and Orion both have quality Japanese-made binos in their inventories, but not in the 100mm+ aperture.
As for the Vixens, they may in fact be made in Japan but they appear to be one of the exceptions to the "Japanese Quality" rule, at least based in large part on Btschumy's review of his pair. After reading that review, I would be very hesitant to purchase a similar pair of Vixen binos.
It would be very interesting to see some sort of definitive listing of reviews (culled from all available sources) on these binos and then organize that list according to the positive/negative nature of the review. I am not suggesting someone should do this, as it would be a mammoth undertaking. But as a lifeless geek who has spent untold hours and days sifting through mountains of Google results, review sites, manufacturers sites, personal sites, and forums such as these, I stand by the bulk of my qualified generalizations in this thread.
I mean, let's face it and call a spade a spade, if I had spent my $225 on a pair of Celestron Skymaster 25x100 or Apogee 25x100 or Barska 25x100 or Orion 25x100, I would still be unhappy and ready to upgrade. All of those binos, based on the reviews, have very similar performance characteristics (loss of FOV sharpness from 60%-75% out) and generally at least one weak area in terms of overall quality - build, serviceability, performance, warranty/reputation, etc.
When it comes to giant binos in the 80-100mm+ range there is a clear pecking order. While Celestron might make a darn-good bino in the birding class, it's giant binos are nothing to brag about. There are bottom feeders in the market and then there are majestic eagles flying above all (like Fujinon). Somewhere in the middle sits Oberwerk, my current favored bino and my next purchase. Now if only I can stop obsessing over finding the perfect $500 bino and just go out and buy it.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12601
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Quote:
When it comes to giant binos in the 80-100mm+ range there is a clear pecking order. While Celestron might make a darn-good bino in the birding class, it's giant binos are nothing to brag about. There are bottom feeders in the market and then there are majestic eagles flying above all (like Fujinon). Somewhere in the middle sits Oberwerk, my current favored bino and my next purchase. Now if only I can stop obsessing over finding the perfect $500 bino and just go out and buy it.
MikeG
Now those comments I really do agree with.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 14703
Loc: Hurricane Alley
|
|
I didn't mean to come off as overly critical of Celestron or any of the other brands in that price point. Reflecting upon what I said, I did sound a little too harsh. In all fairness, let me say that a decent pair of $200-$300 25x100 binos will let you see much more due to their brute light-gathering power.
The value such an instrument will have in one's enjoyment of the hobby will depend largely on it's intended use. In my case, it will be my primary instrument in a very small arsenal of 3 pairs of binos. I need something that has brute-force 100mm glass with a sturdy build and better-than-average optical quality. In retrospect, the Skymaster was a good bino for the price, but it was not the right bino for me. Lesson learned.
I am anxious to see what Celestron sends me back now. I finally shipped off the defective binos with a return-authorization number. I have not heard any communication yet, nor do I know what to expect. Hopefully they send a brand spanking new pair that will knock my socks off.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Buy/Sell/Trade Meteorites, Moon Rocks, Mars Rocks, & 35 different falls and types!
|
|
7 registered and 16 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: EdZ
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 2386
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 