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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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mskillen
member
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Reged: 06/07/13

Loc: Maryland
Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new
      #5969394 - 07/13/13 06:06 PM

Hi Folks,

I know this subject has been beat to death lol, but I'm curious.

So what I currently have is the Nexstar 6SE, I have decided to upgrade to a larger scope.

I have purchased and received my new mount, it is the Celestron advanced VX Equatorial Mount

I have been using the 6"SCT from the SE on this mount and I have been really pleased with its performance.

But the reason I bought the VX mount, was because I was going to get a larger SCT.

The question I have is which one will be the better value for me, this is kind of budget driven as well.

The 8"Edge HD is roughly 1200.00 and the C9.25 is also in that price range, so I have a dilemma, I'm not doing AP at least not now, but I do allot of visual.

So Stepping up from a 6" and wanting to stay in that budget, is the 9.25 the better deal?
I'm sure the 9.25 will be a huge difference over the 6"
and I feel that I would be happy with that.

The 8"edge has nice features but they are mostly for AP and from what I have read its not something that you would notice, but the camera does over a regular C8

This will probably be the last setup I buy for many years I just want the best bang for the buck.

Not having any experience with these scopes doesn't help my decision either, any thoughts, pros or cons, of each scope?

What the better deal?

I hope that this made sense, just kinda of torn on making my final decision.

Thanks
Mark


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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5969433 - 07/13/13 06:34 PM

I think that aperture is your friend, and I usually advocate goings as large as you can.

If you see yourself using Ethos or similar 100 degree AFOV eyepieces (or even Naglers) a lot, then the EdgeHD 8" may be more desirable, but if you are content with 68 degree and narrower eyepieces, then by all means, get a C9.

But you will get to many different opinions on this. I have owned C5, C8, EdgeHD 8", C9.25, C11, C14, a bunch of small APOs, a big APO, MNs, Newts, and everything else.

And my bottom line recommendation is almost always the same..

Biggger IS Better. The bigger you go, the more you get to see. This is the most fundamental lesson in the game.

Edited by Eddgie (07/13/13 06:37 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5969451 - 07/13/13 06:54 PM

That is an excellent question.

The big benefit of the Edge system is suppression of field curvature. By flattening the field, stars are in focus from center to edge. Hence the name. In a standard SCT when stars on axis are focused, stars off axis are bloated, de focused blobs.

However, if you're young, your eyes will accommodate defocus off axis as you pan around the field. For younger visual SCT users, field curvature isn't such a big deal. Also, the 9.25s have slower primaries and less native field curvature tha all the rest which have faster primaries. That means of all the standards SCTs, the 9.25s need Edge "magic" the least.

Ergo, if your eyes have decent accommodation, you are a visual observer, and you have a CGEM or Atlas capacity mount, the standard 9.25 might be a better choice for you. More aperture, deeper limiting magnitude, better resolution.

On the other hand, if you're a little older or don't have a beefy mount, the C8 Edge might be the better bet. Either will be substantially better than the C6.

I'm struggling with the same question myself at the moment.

- Jim


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dr.who
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/05/12

Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5969479 - 07/13/13 07:12 PM

FWIW the AVX will handle up to an 11 edge with no problem for visual so I would suggest the 9 1/4" as Ed says aperture is your friend. Though if you have an extra grand go to the 11"

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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: dr.who]
      #5969706 - 07/13/13 10:15 PM

Yes, I agree, if there is budget, get a C11.

A used one can be had for not much more than new EdgeHD 8".

I progressed up through the SCT sizes, and my biggest regret in all of the astronomy purchases I have ever made was that I did not start with a C14.

I believe the OP may have had a CPC 1100??????

Edited by Eddgie (07/13/13 10:16 PM)


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5971966 - 07/15/13 10:28 AM

The 11 starts to get on the heavy side. the best scopes are the most used ones. I have scopes of all sized and types. my most used scope is still my fork mounted C8.
The larger scopes tend to to get the "why bother" syndrome
after the inital excitement weard down. Either that or they tend to get left outside.
There is quite a bit of bulk difference in that 1.5 inches.
One thing not answered is the difference the larger scope is affected more by local seeing conditions.
But since you have the C6, I would go the 9.25 and the F6,3
FF/FR.
In the future, if you have room, a larger Dob.


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE [Re: orion61]
      #5972374 - 07/15/13 02:10 PM

I'm dubious of a C11 on the VX mount. I have an Edge 11 on a CGEM and its pushing it. I would get the Edge 9.25.

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mskillen
member
*****

Reged: 06/07/13

Loc: Maryland
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: WesC]
      #5972788 - 07/15/13 05:43 PM

Well I know I cant swing the 9.25 edge right now, but the difference in price between the 8" edge or the standard c9.25 is pretty close.

From what I have been reading and following Jim around in all these threads lol, I have a feeling that the standard 9.25 will suit me.
Its the most I can afford at the moment, and the largest aperture in that price range.
And from what I gather it is a nice scope, prior to all the edge scopes hitting the market it seemed like a popular choice.

I already have all the Baader Hyperon eyepieces so I think I'll be happy with it.
I was just curious if the 8" edge was going to be something that really stood out as a better option.
But if your not into AP, I'm not sure if it would really be significant or noticeable.

So definitely leaning to the 9.25, and I think for the AVX mount its not going to overload it and it can still handle a larger finder scope etc...

Mark


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Dunkstar
super member


Reged: 03/26/12

Loc: Under the sky
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5973315 - 07/15/13 11:14 PM

Without standing them side by side and comparing it's hard to tell which stands out most for you but if you stick with your Hyperion eyepieces the standard SCT will do just fine and aperture is king. The 8 is still a good upgrade in light grasp from the 6 though, and if you were interested in wider apparent FOV eyepieces (Nagler, Ethos, etc) then the Edge HD models would be the more obvious choice.

The Edge HD models also have vents to aid cooling which is also useful for visual although there have been some reports of regular XLT models having those also.


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5974474 - 07/16/13 04:03 PM

FYI...take a look at Todd Gross views on the 9.25"....good read. Have fun with what ever you get:)

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Seiko4169
sage


Reged: 07/04/09

Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: REC]
      #5976317 - 07/17/13 04:27 PM

I just went through the same process and opted for a regular 9.25 XLT for visual use as the 11" would have been too big for my mount and the Edge 9.25 far too expensive for just vents and mirror locks. Flat fields might be noticeable for some but in my Edge 8 and CPC 1100 deluxe I was hard pressed to see the difference. I don't doubt for one minute the differences are there and that for seasoned astronomers the effects of field curvature are a pain but for me and my eyepiece collection at the time I couldn't see anything.

By far the most important thing is to get a good sample. A good one comes to life as everything kind of just sparkles. An average one just doesn't seem to have that 'zing"'

I hate the *BLEEP* shoot when getting one though. There is 100% a market for Celestron to cream off their best to those that care and charge extra,


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5976369 - 07/17/13 04:51 PM

This would be a tough dilemma for me. You state that this will probably be the last telescope you buy for many years. Given that, could you swing the 9.25 Edge? My son and I had a similar discussion a few years ago. For budgetary reasons, he was going to buy a new 37 inch HD television. He had room on the wall he was going to hang it for a 55 inch. I asked, 'what is the difference in price between a 37 and 50 incher?' He said, about $500. I said, that TV will probably last you between 5 and 10 years. That's only about $100 a year for something that will give you and your family much more enjoyment. He bought the 50 inch HD TV. My grandkids were delighted. My daughter wasn't very happy with me, though.

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mskillen
member
*****

Reged: 06/07/13

Loc: Maryland
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: GeneT]
      #5976497 - 07/17/13 06:00 PM

Well I would love to do the 9.25 Edge, but it just seems like 1000.00 more for some features that I don't know If I would really gain any value from at this time.

So that's kind of where I am at, that's why I compared the standard 9.25 to the 8 Edge.

If the optics were dramatically different over a standard scope I would chose the 8 edge instead of the 9.25, but if there really is nothing gained whats the point.

The 6SE that I have is great but its just a tease, good enough to find things, but not enough light to bring them into detail.
The 8" is 78% more light than the 6" and the 9.25 is something like 111 more times.
I think the edge system is for photography for the most part.

So I understand the theory with the TV's lol, but what am I really paying for in the long run.

Thanks
Mark


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Reid W
super member
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Reged: 10/06/10

Loc: Shreveport, LA
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5977039 - 07/17/13 11:36 PM

Just came in from viewing with my standard 9.25 with an ES 28mm 68' eyepiece. It is hard for me to see any edge of field issues. That said, I've looked thru a std. 8", and edge of field was bad.

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jimb1001
sage
*****

Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Reid W]
      #5977179 - 07/18/13 01:54 AM

Here's something to consider.

Get a standard 8" used, there are plenty of good ones around.

Add to that a Mallincam, or equivalent.

You will "see" more dsos with that combination than any of the other scopes mentioned with an eyepiece, and the scope will be fine for planets and lunar with an eyepiece.


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Dunkstar
super member


Reged: 03/26/12

Loc: Under the sky
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: mskillen]
      #5977285 - 07/18/13 05:45 AM

With the size of the central obstruction being larger in the 6" it's more like 90% more light gathering with the 8".

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Dunkstar
super member


Reged: 03/26/12

Loc: Under the sky
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Reid W]
      #5977288 - 07/18/13 05:47 AM

Using 68 degree eyepieces with a 925 is not surprising you don't see anything. Try a Nagler or Ethos

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ensign
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Southwestern Ontario
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Dunkstar]
      #5977729 - 07/18/13 11:32 AM

I'm coming at this from the opposite direction. I recently sold a standard C8 (with the XLT coatings) and traded up to a 9.25 Edge HD. I found the views in the standard 8 to be less than sharp. Maybe the issue is my old eyes being unable to adapt to field curvature.

I even went so far as to add a .63 reducer/corrector to the C8 and this improved things somewhat. But the 9.25 Edge provides much sharper views. I'm seeing somewhat more detail in objects than I did with the standard 8 and while aperture is part of this, I think the corrected optics are more of a factor.

Long story short, if it were me, I'd go for the 8" Edge.


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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Reid W]
      #5978085 - 07/18/13 02:59 PM

Quote:

Just came in from viewing with my standard 9.25 with an ES 28mm 68' eyepiece. It is hard for me to see any edge of field issues.




This has been my position. If you use Panoptics or ES 68s, Or hyperions (except for the 24mm which is not quite as well corrected at the edge as the others), there is little benefit in having the EdgeHD optics.

When using Naglers or Ethos though, the off axis performance of the standard SCT starts to burn though.

I am an advocate of using 68 degree eyepeices in SCTs anyway because the lower powers for a given true field size generally keep the stars that are bloated from seeing small enough that they still appear sharp.

I think that the whole "refractors are sharper" is often an artifact of using Naglers in SCTs. When used with Panoptics stars across the field generally always appear sharper because the magnification is low enough that the blurred Airy Disk is hard to resolve, so you still see points.

I think if the OP has Hyperions and likes them, and doesn't see $500 and $600 eyepeices in his future, the C9 is a better choice.


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Reid W
super member
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Reged: 10/06/10

Loc: Shreveport, LA
Re: Celestron 8 edge HD or C 9.25 upgrading from 6SE new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5978450 - 07/18/13 06:08 PM

Ed, you just nailed the argument. I have not used any eyepieces greater than 68'. Our Shreveport group is getting together this weekend, and I'll find someone with an ES 100 and see how it performs in the std. 9.25. It might open Pandora's Box. Great.

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