Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: GeneT]
      #6049760 - 08/27/13 10:01 PM

Quote:

You handled this very diplomatically. Your neighbors are not going to budge. Putting the neighbors aside, if their lights were out, how dark are your skies? I have thought a lot about the frustration of trying to view in light polluted skies. You can view out your back yard, find a site about 20 miles from home, and a site further out, i.e. a dark sky site. I believe the best answer is to buy some property at a dark sky site and put up a permanent observatory. Then, drive to the place for a night or two, or over a long weekend, and eventually keep it as a retirement home.




Thanks for the thoughts, Gene.

I know the neighbors are not going to budge on their own. But that is why, since I really don't have the option to 1) move anytime soon 2) spend the time driving to a dark sky site much less 3) buy any property that could serve as an observatory, I am trying to build a model for other people who are in my shoes to be able to do the same thing, by detailing what happens around me.

We need to show we can have success at this.

I have had success now with SIX lights, two of which were my own. Small, very limited success? Sure. But better than going backwards. And that is only after a couple of months of really doing anything on that front (I've been making my "Eyes on the Sky" videos for 2.5 years now). That's progress. Small, limited, to be sure, but still progress. There's a ton more post lamps around me; I'll approach those neighbors. For those who are receptive immediately, I'll give them a silver crown bulb to install. For those who are resistant, I'll work the "long view" via my Village Board, and by starting a campaign in town.

First, I'll put up the posters, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. I need to re-do some of them, as my wife had a better idea on how to approach this which is...

Second, do a presentation at my local library on SLEEP disorders, and then talk a lot about both indoor and outdoor lighting, and how we should change it.

I already have a website I can use to direct people; I just need to update it with the relevant information and then have that as the place for people to go to find more complete info, with links and detailed data.

We need a whole bunch of people on our side, not just amateur astronomers, who I am often frustrated by because their solution is "go away from the light pollution" rather than "do something about it." I'm intent on confronting this problem head-on, since I really don't have the time or money to do the "get away from it" option.

Granted, my stars are 4.5 NELM at zenith on a bad night, and 5.0 on a good night. That's not too shabby, so I can live with that for now. Yes, I'd like to have darker, but other people deal with a lot worse than that. I just hope to show them how they can make a difference in their neighborhoods too, so collectively, we'll start making a dent in this problem.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
John Fitzgerald
In Focus
*****

Reged: 01/04/04

Loc: AR
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6049958 - 08/28/13 01:14 AM

In this town, you might find yourself a target if you rub the wrong person the wrong way. Been a few neighbors around here who would go off on a profane rant if you only looked at them while walking by.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: John Fitzgerald]
      #6050409 - 08/28/13 10:35 AM

Of course, you could become your neighbor's worst nightmare and return the favor.....just find out what he likes......

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6050495 - 08/28/13 11:19 AM

Well Bully for you! What wattage where your silver crown bulbs that you gave to your neighbor? I want to get a few of them to put in my neighbors small light fixture on their patio's. I think they are 60 watt or less?

Also there are some post light fixtures on my street that throw light all over the place. I called the city and they installed a couple of shields that block 1/3 of the light coming out sideways as a test. I need to start bugging him again to get a few more installed as it helps some. So, I'm thinking that maybe some of these crown light bulbs may even work in the street lights? I think they just take screw in type bulbs?

Thanks!

bob


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: REC]
      #6050550 - 08/28/13 11:53 AM

Quote:

Well Bully for you! What wattage where your silver crown bulbs that you gave to your neighbor? I want to get a few of them to put in my neighbors small light fixture on their patio's. I think they are 60 watt or less?




Mostly 60W bulbs. Partly I worry that people will THINK they are too dim, because they don't look as bright when they aren't shining in your face, despite that the overall illumination of the ground is actually better. We can work on lowering lumens in due time. Baby steps, you know?

Quote:

Also there are some post light fixtures on my street that throw light all over the place. I called the city and they installed a couple of shields that block 1/3 of the light coming out sideways as a test. I need to start bugging him again to get a few more installed as it helps some. So, I'm thinking that maybe some of these crown light bulbs may even work in the street lights? I think they just take screw in type bulbs?




Oooh, I don't know about streetlights. They often use different types of bulbs, not typical screw-in ones like we use in homes. You'll have to check that though - depends on what fixtures you have locally, I suppose.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6078007 - 09/12/13 11:35 PM

Two days ago, a couple things happened:

1) I sent a follow up email to our village administrator. At this point, I am assuming he sent the follow up to the electric company person that he forgot to send the last time, so I'll cut him some slack until next week. These things are going to take time, I realize.

2) My neighbor's light burned out. Now, the LAST time it went out, I apparently was stupid enough to go over there and offer a better light. Of course, NO light is ideal, so at the moment, I am keeping my mouth shut and enjoying the "no light streaming into my house" from their burned out light in their post lamp. Though, I confess, I find it a bit ironic that they were adamant about having all that extra light, yet this is twice now when they haven't noticed that the light burned out. Odd, isn't it?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bluesteel
sage


Reged: 03/24/13

Loc: ILM
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6078867 - 09/13/13 02:43 PM

Haha! The one time I am glad the lightbulb companies bought the patents and hid the research for everlasting bulbs. I'm willing to bet they won't notice for at least a month. How often do people really look out their windows at night to see what is in their backyard anyhow? Looks like karma is working in your favour. It must be all those fantastic YouTube videos you put out I hope that fixture has now a permanent short that will burn out any new bulbs within a day

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Wmacky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6078871 - 09/13/13 02:44 PM

There's really no winning. It's their yard, and even if you get an agreement your never know when it might be flipped back on. A war with your neighbors isn't a good way to live either. And what if they sell to others?

At this point I feel it's better to have all the control. The soulution is to move where there are no, and can never be ANY neighbors, or completely block off your yard from the neighborhood.

After agreeg to turn off their "4x4 mounted" street light whenever posible, it's now back on every night.

I give up!

I'm now trying to get the money up to completely wall off my yard using evergreen screening trees.

Edited by Wmacky (09/13/13 02:50 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
darknesss
super member


Reged: 09/05/13

Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: Wmacky]
      #6080994 - 09/14/13 07:44 PM

Now give your neighbour the most powerful lightbulb you can find (to get the electric bill higher), screwed into this
http://www.amazon.com/Screw-In-Wireless-Remote-Control-Adapter/dp/B006GQPBCO
and keep the remote for yourself.
Or something like that since it doesn't have good reviews.

Edited by darknesss (09/14/13 07:48 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Eric63
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/16/12

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: darknesss]
      #6081115 - 09/14/13 09:22 PM

My neighbour keeps a bright rear porch light on all night. I asked him if could cover it while I observe and he said OK. So I put a black plastic plant pot over it when I am out and remove it when I go in. So far it works great.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
magic612
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/30/08

Loc: S. of Chicago's light dome
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6091587 - 09/20/13 11:52 AM

Quote:

Two days ago, a couple things happened:

1) I sent a follow up email to our village administrator. At this point, I am assuming he sent the follow up to the electric company person that he forgot to send the last time, so I'll cut him some slack until next week. These things are going to take time, I realize.

2) My neighbor's light burned out. Now, the LAST time it went out, I apparently was stupid enough to go over there and offer a better light. Of course, NO light is ideal, so at the moment, I am keeping my mouth shut and enjoying the "no light streaming into my house" from their burned out light in their post lamp. Though, I confess, I find it a bit ironic that they were adamant about having all that extra light, yet this is twice now when they haven't noticed that the light burned out. Odd, isn't it?




I JUST received a response from our Village Administrator (after sending him a "bump" email on Wednesday, since I hadn't heard from him last week either). He basically said sorry, haven't head back from electric company, and he'll contact them again next week.

Ayiyiyi. This is trying my patience, but I will keep working on this and continue to update. At this rate, the leaves will be off the trees by the time something gets done, and I'll have to point out that another streetlight at the intersection to my southeast is now shining into our bedroom as well. Well, maybe kill two birds with one stone then, right?

Also, my neighbor's light is still out, a week and a half later. Ironic, that they were so adamant about using the overly-bright, spray-light every-which-way bulb instead of the "direct light downward" silver-crown bulb I had supplied to them, and now that it's out, they don't replace the darn thing because they don't even notice?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: magic612]
      #6091596 - 09/20/13 11:58 AM

What with the artifical suns the city just installed, my back yard is out for anything but lunar viewing. And our dark site is closed due to rattlesnake infestation. Luckily, the weather is cooling so the skeeters will be gone soon (West Nile is present in CO)and I can do the 5-minute drive to the state park (still white zone, but better then my well lit tree lined yard). And hopefully they'll catch those snakes soon (waiting for weather/flooding to clear up). AND IT'S CLEAR THIS WEEKEND!!!!!!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6091969 - 09/20/13 03:14 PM

I imagine that flooding didn't help the snake problem one bit either.
Keep looking up.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
richard7Moderator
Not Quite
*****

Reged: 11/02/07

Loc: Sacramento
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: richard7]
      #6091972 - 09/20/13 03:16 PM

Dave.
I'm glad to hear you're hanging in there and still trying. Maybe it'll turn out good.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: richard7]
      #6092322 - 09/20/13 07:01 PM

Perhaps a letter from your Attorney to BOTH the electric company and Village Admin will help.
Seems people can call, write, email, and visit personally,
nothing gets done but a simple Attorney letter will get things rolling quickly. Make sure both know of the letters
to the other party. They will realize you are serious and are ready (even if you aren't) to take it to the next escalated level.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: GeneT]
      #6103124 - 09/26/13 09:58 PM

Quote:

I believe the best answer is to buy some property at a dark sky site and put up a permanent observatory.



That's lovely if you can afford it. Raw land can be a pita. Remember you'll need toilet facilities which probably means you'll need water and sewer and power. If you don't have water service that means a well which will need power. If you don't have sewer service you'll need a septic tank and leach field. Plus permits, approvals and many fees. It adds up quick. Already developed land may be a better deal.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
guangtou
sage


Reged: 03/27/10

Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: frolinmod]
      #6105654 - 09/28/13 10:31 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that we are just plain weird to other folks. I'm not excusing their light trespass, I'm only pointing out that 99% of the rest of the world has a caveman , "light good" mindset.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
obin robinson
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/25/12

Loc: League City, TX
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: guangtou]
      #6105663 - 09/28/13 10:35 AM

Quote:

One thing to keep in mind is that we are just plain weird to other folks. I'm not excusing their light trespass, I'm only pointing out that 99% of the rest of the world has a caveman , "light good" mindset.




True. They think the best way to spend a night is inside watching reruns of an episode they've seen twice before. The wonders of the universe only appear to them on a TV screen. They think satellites are invisible, planets can only be seen with a thousand dollar telescope, and they think that the only camera that can photograph a galaxy is either an orbiting space telescope or a million dollar observatory.

obin


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Kfrank
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/20/08

Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: obin robinson]
      #6105890 - 09/28/13 12:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One thing to keep in mind is that we are just plain weird to other folks. I'm not excusing their light trespass, I'm only pointing out that 99% of the rest of the world has a caveman , "light good" mindset.




True. They think the best way to spend a night is inside watching reruns of an episode they've seen twice before. The wonders of the universe only appear to them on a TV screen. They think satellites are invisible, planets can only be seen with a thousand dollar telescope, and they think that the only camera that can photograph a galaxy is either an orbiting space telescope or a million dollar observatory.

obin




Both of the above postings are demeaning to the "average person", who in fact is presumed to be anyone who thinks other than we do.

Human preference for light over darkness is real and this culturally based preference goes back thousands of years.

Humans have traditionally sought light as a refuge from the dark, and continue to do so today. Our language is full of metaphors that celebrate light as good and revile darkness as bad.

Whether we like it or not, humanity harbors a cultural preference for light over darkness and convincing them to change is an uphill battle.

I don't condone, nor do I like it when a neighbor's light intrudes on my yard or illuminates my bedroom window. I also know that telling them they're idiots or foolish for lighting their yards is totally counterproductive. It is possible to force people to adapt to your point of view by legislating, and in some cases that is a reasonable and necessary step. A far better way is for me to be a good neighbor and attempt to obtain cooperation fostered by mutual respect and a desire to be fair and accommodating.

Just my thoughts...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csa/montana
Den Mama
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Small, VERY local, hopefully not temporary victory new [Re: Kfrank]
      #6105954 - 09/28/13 01:14 PM

Quote:

Both of the above postings are demeaning to the "average person", who in fact is presumed to be anyone who thinks other than we do.





Ken, agreed. Just because the neighbors don't share our interest in the night sky, does not make them fall into this catagory:

Quote:

They think the best way to spend a night is inside watching reruns of an episode they've seen twice before.




We probably would not be the least interested in their hobbies, nor support adjusting our yards, lives, to suit their needs.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)


Extra information
1 registered and 2 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  LivingNDixie, richard7 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 4136

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics