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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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Eddgie
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Hmmmm, what's this????
      #5984517 - 07/22/13 02:00 PM Attachment (126 downloads)

Looks like a Binotron connected to a T2 Prism!

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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5984535 - 07/22/13 02:14 PM

So that sure looks nice! Not much light path loss with that! How long will the OTA be from the back of your SCT? Are you going to test it out in your C8 as well?

Bob


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johnnyha
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #5984569 - 07/22/13 02:36 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

Very nice! I actually have something similar although I have not connected it yet, mine was an adapter made by Precise Parts and I added the Quickchanger dovetail. The top in the photo threads into the Denk PowerXSwitch. The one that Ed has posted is even a bit shorter though!

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swampdog
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5984594 - 07/22/13 02:54 PM

Ha! Ha!..That bino likes to play!

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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5984782 - 07/22/13 05:00 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

This is the prototype from Denkmeier. It needs a few minor changes, and Russ is going to cut a new one and send it to me for evaluation.

Of course this idea is that he will put them into production soon and sell them as an option for those that want to utilize short light path diagonals like the T2 Prism.

I was so excited though that I could not wait and asked Russ if I could show pictures and he agreed, so I think he is committed to going ahead with production!!!!


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herrointment
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5984951 - 07/22/13 06:51 PM

Three cheers for Mr. Moreno!!!

Reason and persistence are a winning combination....thanks, Eddgie!


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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: herrointment]
      #5984956 - 07/22/13 06:59 PM

Wow, that looks awesome! Is this a better solution than using a diagonal that screws directly into a SCT to keep a short light path?

Bob


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #5984993 - 07/22/13 07:26 PM

Honestly, I don't know. I think you may be talking about the Baader Clicklock, which when used with the locking ring can have the nose removed and be screwed directly to the rear of the SCT port?

The configuration I am using is the Televue Short SCT/2" adapter. This is as short as you can get in a normal 2" adapter, but it is still about 30mm!!!

The Maxbright mirror though is ZERO! The diagonal body literally screws right on to the rear port. Can't get shorter than that.

But this means that you have the light path through the diagonal and this is still about 65mm for a standard 2" diagonal. The T2 Prsim is only 38mm, so add 38mm to that and you are at about 76mm, but the binoviewers don't screw on to the top of this diagonal so if you were using it with binoviewers, you would need to put the 2" nose on them and this adds 30mm or so.

I think Denkmeier has a dovetail that will allow you to mount directly to the top though, and this would only add a bit to the light path.

The Baader Clicklock though is going to be the shortest 2" configuration for monoviewing though.

For binoviewing, if Denk has the adapter that lets you screw right to the top and not use the eyepiece holder, it may actually be a bit shorter than the T2.

But you also need the Lock Ring.

Could be an expensive way to save a few millimeters.

I would personally go with the T2 Prism and the Televue short SCT/2" but I am trying to go 100% binoviewer.

If you are going to continue to use 2" eyepeices and have to buy a 2" diagonal anyway, the Baader Clicklock with locking ring may make more sense (again, this assumes that Denk makes a mating ring which I believe is available). Then you could screw off the eyeppeice holder and put on your binoviewer.

There could be clearance issues to. I have not had any serious clearance issues with the Televue Short adapter but with smaller SCTs, the Clicklock solution is not going to clear the focuser, and on the EdgeHD 8" may not clear the mirror lock knobs.

Complicated, isn't it...


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Sorny
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #5985000 - 07/22/13 07:30 PM

Nice! I just got my Binotron-27 "a-la carte" and the unit itself is VERY nice. The Bino/Power Switch hooked to the T2 looks quite slick.

Maybe Russ will temp you to the dark side and you'll embrace the power switch.

You should be able to use an adapter straight to the binotron body as well. The power switch should just thread to the body of the binoviewer. It's worth a shot for experimentation's sake.


Edited by Sorny (07/22/13 08:05 PM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Sorny]
      #5985161 - 07/22/13 09:30 PM

Yes, I have used it with the dovetail on both the powerswitch and directly on the bino body, but only today while testing on the C5 (solar).

I have been making measurements of the difference in aperture reduction when comparing the 2" diagonal configuration to the T2 prism.

I am not really going to share the data here, but I can say that in general, the result is consistent with my ongoing messaging on the forum which is that the shorter the light path, the better off you usually are, and the Baader Prism is much shorter than a standard 2" diagonal and so far, my measurements are 100% consistent with my message.

Am testing with the C14 tonight.

It is tedious though because for every configuration, I have to unmounts the scope to make the measurement. Was easy with the C5, but I am dreading it with the C14.


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Sorny
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5985175 - 07/22/13 09:38 PM

I can't say I envy you that task with the C14...

Wind picked up for me, and clouds moving in. Apparently the new gear curse is alive & well.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Sorny]
      #5985196 - 07/22/13 09:54 PM

By the way.. This is not my Binotron. Denkmeier sent it to me to test the T2 adapter prototype and to provide data on the difference the light path changes make vs a 2" diagonal.

I have to return it when I am done.


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Astrojensen
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5985450 - 07/23/13 02:25 AM

I though the Binotron 27 looked quite interesting, mostly because of the big prisms and the collimating, but wrote it off, because it wasn't compatible with the T2 system and Denk didn't have anything similar. This changes things drastically.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5985644 - 07/23/13 08:50 AM Attachment (23 downloads)

Yes, I am happy to see that Denkmeier is interested in offering this option.

My message has been that for SCTs, light path length can be very important, and this addition will allow compatibility with the T2 Prism which is about as short as one can get.

Perhaps when Denk realizes how profitable it would be having their own short light path option for a diagonal, maybe they will produce one.

To me, the perfect diagonal would eliminate even the quick change connector and simply thread directly on to the binoveiwer with maybe an O'Ring between them for resistence.

This was my goal when I made my own "T2 Prism". I really wanted to find a short adapter that was threaded for the prism hosing on one end and the Binoviewer on the other end to eliminate the 8mm in between the bino body and prism.

This is the best I could do:


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5985652 - 07/23/13 08:53 AM

And I am only 11mm of light path length away from getting full aperture out of the C5 using the setup above.

I have very seriously considered cutting the front and rear of the TV SCT to 2" adapter and further shortening the 2" to 1.25" adapter in the picture, but the gain of 3mm is not worth it I suppose.

From where I started though, I have improved the brightness of the C5 by 25%. Not bad.


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bcuddihee
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5985703 - 07/23/13 09:26 AM

Actually Russ does make this connector..its called the special dovetail connector. T screws on to the bino where the nose piece attaches and then directly to the diagonal body sans the eyepiece connector. With the denk system the eyepiece connector does not screw on as in many other diagonals but rather it attaches with two thumbscrews. I have one on order and I'll post pics when I receive it.

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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5985722 - 07/23/13 09:48 AM

That is the part for the 2" diagonal though, yes?


I don't think that adapter works with the T2 threads on the Maxbright Prism, T2 Zeiss Prism, or Maxbright mirror.

These have much shorter light path than the 2" diagonal an that is why I think some people are interested in this particular adapter. It allows you to use these smaller diagonals.

After all, if he did already have this solution, then I would not be testing a prototype for him it would seem, yes?

I am testing this because he contacted me after becoming aware of my on-going posts about light path length.

I think he became concerned because perhaps he thought I was picking on Denkmeier (I was not, but rather highlighting the compromises of any long light path approach with an SCT). Anyway, during the dialog, he asked what he could do, and I said "Get T2 compatible."

He listened and is now acting.

I have provided him with many different actual measurements showing the difference between a best case 2" diagonal system (and most people do not have best case... Far from it usually) and the T2 prism.

Even as compared to the best case 2" scenario (Standard 2" diagonal), the T2 Prism easily came out ahead on every telescope I tested on, reducing the focal length and in many cases increasing the aperture by enough to make a 25% difference in brightness (vs a "Typical" 2" system where no particular attention was paid to keeping light path short).

Removing the eyepiece holder on a 2" diagonal is an improvement though, and for someone that wanted to stay with 2" diagonals on their SCT for binoviewing, it would of course be great as long as they followed though and also went to the AP visual back or the TV short SCT to 2" adapter. Using it with something like a Clicklock visual back does falls short of optimal.


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Sorny
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5985788 - 07/23/13 10:39 AM

Is the Baader diagonal body strong enough to not deflect with the not inconsiderable weight of the Binotron and a pair of eyepieces? My Binotron body and pair of D21s have some heft, and will act like a lever off the diagonal. I've never used Baader stuff, but given the praise they get, I'm assuming they are pretty stout in construction.

How did testing go with the C14 last night? I imagine mounting/unmounting the scope was a chore, but I'm curious if the T2/dovetail setup allows your scope to work at full aperture with the reducer arm in particular.

I'm hoping I can get by without taking the eyepiece adapter off my S2 power switch using the Binotron and D21 eyepieces and use the reducer arm without having to use the dovetail. Unlike my WO bino, the binotron goes right into the 2" holder, so I gain a few mm there by not using a 2" to 1-1/4" adapter, and the D21s have the field lens very close to the bottom of the barrel (internal field stop), instead of up past the barrel like my Agenas, so I gain a lot of mm there, but then I think I lose a lot of that in longer light path of the binotron. I'm not concerned about aperture reduction with my C11, but I am concerned about running out of focuser travel. I'll find out tonight (forecast is looking stellar, no pun intended). If I run out of focuser travel, then I'll be making a call to Russ to inquire about either a shorty nose or IVB nose for my diagonal.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Sorny]
      #5986171 - 07/23/13 02:22 PM

First, the Baader Maxbright Prism is a very high quality diagonal (and this is not the much more expensive Zeiss unit either) in a very robust metal housing. This diagonal was designed for binoviewer use.

I use mine with my Mark V all the time and I feel 100% comfortable with it. Otherwise, I would not hang the $1400 binoviwer off of it.

I also routinely use long heavy Baader Hyperion eyepeices.

Just out of curiousity, I weighed the different configurations and here is what I came up with.

The Mark V with the Dovetail installed is a porky 786 grams.

The Binotron with the prototype T2 dovetail is actually much lighter coming in at a very svelte 616 grams (no Powerswitch).

Even with the Powerswitch and the T2 adapter, the Binotron is still lighter than the Mark V coming in at 773 grams (vs 786 for the stripped down Mark V.

Only with the 2" nose does the Binotron come in heavier (819 grams) but of course if you were using it with the T2, it would not need the nose.

Anyway, there is absolutely no issue at all with using the Binotron on the T2. It is a rugged diagonal and I trust it 100% even with the heavy Mark Vs and a pair of 13mm Hyperions.


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crow
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5986225 - 07/23/13 02:53 PM

Binotron plus T2 and no power switch sounds tempting to me. Being bino'less at the mo this could be what I'm looking for.

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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: crow]
      #5992221 - 07/26/13 11:52 PM

Eddgie can you post a photo of the tube adapter that screws into the bino that then goes into the dovetail connector.

I want to see how long it is compared to the original one.

I have a order for a dovetail connector #44/46 and adapter #42 and was interested in how long the new one is.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5993334 - 07/27/13 05:20 PM Attachment (40 downloads)

I am not at all sure that I know exactly what you want a picture of, but if you just want to see the Dovetail that will allow the Binotron to work with the T2 diagonals, here it is.

This is the prototype and the unit will be 1.5mm longer than this on the dovetail in the picture. I determined that the prototype did not have sufficient engagment with the quick connector and recommend the change... The next revision is being cut soon and I will have it hopefully in a week or so, and it should be about the same lenght as the Baader dovetail then.

I get the impression that B27 sales are very strong and Russ is giving his attention to filling back orders now so this is (rightfully) a lower priority.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5993335 - 07/27/13 05:21 PM

Again, this is a prototype and not at all indicitave of the final product. It is like a first draft.

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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5993664 - 07/27/13 09:02 PM

Thanks Eddgie, so that screws into the bottom of the bino, so how can you rotate the bino if the taper is locked into the diagonal.

I have a Williams Optics diagonal and the eyepiece adapter has the same taper but it is locked in place with 4 grub screws under the side plates, so I don't understand how the bino can rotate if the taper is locked in place.

Do you know what size thread it is, I can easily machine one up if I know what size thread it is.

I hope you understand what I mean.




Edited by axle01 (07/27/13 09:28 PM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5994009 - 07/28/13 01:25 AM

This part is designed for use with the Baader Quick Connector, which threads on to the top of the Baader T2 Prism and Maxbright Mirror diagonals. It is not really intended for any other application.

The Baader T2 prism is only 38mm in light path, so that is an important factor for keeping the light path short in an SCT.

Look up "Baader Quick Connector" and you will see the parts involved, and again, the quick connnector goes on to the top of the baader Diagonal, which has T2 threads.

The Quick Connector has a screw on it that retains the flare of the part in the picture and the screw is inserted enough to lock the diagonal into the Quick connector, but not so tight taht it can't turn...


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5994071 - 07/28/13 02:33 AM

Eddgie do you know what the thread size is for the adapter that screws into the bottom of the bino.

Edited by axle01 (07/28/13 02:35 AM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5994337 - 07/28/13 09:12 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

The Baader Quick Connector is a socket that the dovetail inserts in to.

Going though the side of the Quick Connector, there is a retention screw. This screw is turned in to engage the grove in the dovetail.

On the opposite side of the dovetail, there are two small lips that also catch the grove.

The screw is not tightend. It is left a bit loose. The flare of the dovtail under the lips and the screw keep the dovetail from falling out, and because the screw is not tight, the dovetail (and binoviwer) can turn on its axis.

Here is a picture looking down into the top of the Quick Connector, which is screwed on to the top of my diagonal.

You can see the little retaining lips.

The dovetail is tilted in so that one side of of the flare goes under the little lips sticking out from 6:00 and 9:00 o'clock in the picture.

The screw then is screwed in so that the tip captures the flair of the dovtail on the other side.

Again, the screw is not tightened. The two lips and the screw tip ride in circular groove so the unit can rotate.

I do not know anything about your diagonal, but for this system to work, you must must use the Baader Quick Change connector, and the quick change connector only works with a diagonal with T2 threads on top.

The only diagonals that I am personally aware of that have this connector on top are all made by Baader: The T2 Prism, The T2 Zeiss Prism, the T2 Amici Prism, and the Maxbright Mirror (not the 2" Clicklock diagonal).

If your diagonal has T2 threads on top though, you only need to purchase the Dovetail Connector (when it is avialable) and the Quick Change Ring.

And if it does not have T2 threads, I don't know how this would work with it.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5994359 - 07/28/13 09:25 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

Here is a picture of the installation.

The Binoviwer is tilted, and one side of the dovetail flair is inserted into the Quick Connector under the little lugs you see in the previous picture.

Next, the BV is tilted flat so that the screw side is fully inserted.

When the screw is now turned it, the rounded tip engages the other side of the dovetail.

The two lugs and the screw tip are not riding in the groove and friction is the only think that keeps it from turning (you can put a little tension on the screw tip to hold it in a fixed position

Hope this helps.


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5995286 - 07/28/13 06:34 PM

Thanks Eddgie, got this from Russ this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8d40T_Iyw

What I was trying to explain was I was thinking of doing away with the middle section and drilling and taping a thread into the side of the diagonal and using a thumb screw to hold the bino and let it rotate.
The Williams Optics has the same flare or taper as the part that screws into the bino.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5995325 - 07/28/13 07:07 PM

Yes, similar concept to the T2 Quick Connector, but not interchangeable,

I have been working with Russ know for a couple of week though and I know he is committed to providing short light path options. Happy to see this one, but still recommed the T2 prism for people using SCTs that want to get as short as possible.


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5995381 - 07/28/13 07:46 PM

In this photo you can see the taper or flare on the Williams Optics eyepiece holder.



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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5995382 - 07/28/13 07:47 PM

Second photo I want to remove "B" and "C" and install the piece that you have shown in the photo in the second post on this page



Edited by axle01 (07/28/13 07:50 PM)


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BrianG
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5996064 - 07/29/13 07:54 AM

That's the way I have mine connected. I replaced the Denk/WO diagonal nose piece with a 42 adapter (from Russ)It then screws directly into the power switch. It doesn't quick disconnect, it more makes the bino's and diagonal one unit. works well for my needs.

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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: BrianG]
      #5996094 - 07/29/13 08:16 AM

Brian I am quite happy to leave the bino connected to the WO diagonal permanently and I intend drilling into the both sides of the diagonal and fit thumb screws to lock the bino and allow it to rotate, so all I really need is the #42 adapter.

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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5996106 - 07/29/13 08:25 AM

Oh, that short video explains it very well. So using the Baader diagonal, the other end has a screw on SCT threaded adapter which then connects to the SCT, right?

So in the end, this system must be the shortest light path solution possible for the BV I would think. That should be able to chop off at least 50mm from my current 260mm LP I would think, maybe more?

Bob


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6004143 - 08/02/13 11:51 PM

Does any one know the optical path length and field stop diameter of a
Williams Optics 1.25 diagonal
Williams Optics 2" diagonal
Baader 1.25 diagonal


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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #6004416 - 08/03/13 08:01 AM

So, more questions following this post. So if we could remove parts B & C and somehow connect the Denk PS directly into the WO diagonal, then for me, instead of using the SCT tube on the other side of the diagonal to insert into the OTA on the back of the SCT, I use a SCT screw on adapter on the diagonal to connect? Currently my Meade OTA is about 32mm long

Thanks for all your suggestions and yes, a picture is worth 1000 words, so nice image Axle.

Bob


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BrianG
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6007169 - 08/05/13 07:53 AM

Does direct connecting the BV to the diagonal change the Magnification factors of the power switch (1.3X, 2.3X, 3X)?

In the manual it states: By placing the OCS cell directly onto the diagonal body, two things are accomplished - The focus position is brought more inward toward the telescope,
and the magnification is slightly lowered in all Power
x Switch settings.

I was wondering if shortening the light path on the back side of the diagonal had the same effect.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: BrianG]
      #6013206 - 08/08/13 09:26 AM

Yes, has the same effect because it is still in front of the That is the spacing the determines the magnification factors.

The closer you get the OCS to the Power Switch, the lower the powers will be.

But there is a tradeoff. This also means that you need more in-travel and it might be possible that some scopes would not reach focus.

I did not have that problem in my 6" APO though. I was able to reach focus with about the same amount of travel left as when I used the Maxbrights with a 1.25x OCS inserted in front of the Prism (which gives 1.5x).

And that was the Maxbrights with a very short light path (110mm vs 147 for the Binotron with Power Switch).

I could get lower powers and a wider true field than wtih the Mark Vs.

I used a 2" diagonal and I cold see that the field was a bit darker and a bit narrower than with the 1.25 Prism.

Anyway, yes, the smaller prism brings the OCS closer to the low power arm reducer and gives a little lower power and wider field.

If you can reach focus with the 1.5x GPC and Mark Vs though, it could be that you could still get about as wide a field.

The low power arm means that eyepeices over 24.7mm field stop will vignette. The Mark V allows a 28mm field stop.

If you used 24mm Hyperions (also having a 28mm field stop) the field would be almost as wide as it would be with the D21s, but the power would be higher.

But you would have to be able to reach focus at 1.5x with the Mark Vs and many refractors won't reach focus with the 1.25x GPC in the 1.25x position.

Binoviewers are complicated.

I did test though, and I was able to reach focus easily with the T2 Prism on the Binotron Supersystem.

Powers would be about 75x, 133x, and 173x.

Not a terrible range, but again, not really appealing to me because of starting with too small an aperture.

I could go to something like the 27mm Flat Fields though, and get a bit lower power, but at the expense of a bit of the higher power, and this "Compresses" the magnification factors of the power switch to 58x, 103x, and 135x.

THe step steps in this case between the medium and high power are a little to compressed to me. I would prefer a bit more of a step between mid and high power.

This was just the opposite in the SCT where the step between medium and high was often way to big in the C14 makeing (for me personally) the high power arm mostly unusable.


All compromises. Even in a Dob there are compromises, but when they all trade out, I think that the Supersystem gives the greatest benefit in small to medium Dobs. The range of magnifications is to me far more useful for the apeture so that the low is "low enough" and the high is "High enough" for most observing.

And that was why I picked the 12" f/4.9 scope. It provided a lot of brightness, with a reasonably low power and a high power that was still usable for seeing on many nights.

On the occasional night when I can use more power, I will change to a 15mmm Plossl pair, but I do a lot of planetary observing at 225x, so this shoud be about perfect for me.

And it is all about me... LOL....

Only kidding.

But Binoviwers to me are the most complex purchasse I have ever made, and one should really do the math before buying any system (Mark V, Binotron, or whatever).

I love the Binotron in the Dob though, but likely won't use it in the 6" APO. I am just not a small apeture kind of guy.


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6013218 - 08/08/13 09:31 AM

Hi Ed, I have a 10" DOB coming in this week (along with the rain)do you think I will be able to get my Denk2 PS to focus without adding on any thing to the focuser?

I have pairs of 16,20 and 26mm EP's.

Thanks,

Bob


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6013237 - 08/08/13 09:41 AM

I believe that the likelhood is high, however don't be surprised if you have to slip the OCS tube out to when using the low power arm.

This is apparently pretty common.

If you can't reach focus with the low power arm, you can buy additiona spacers.

The OCS will intrude into the light path at low power, but this doesn't really matter at low power. The damage is impossible to see.

At medium power, you have to rack the focuser out quite a bit, and in most cases, the OCS will clear the light path, but once agian, at medium power, it doesn't matter to much the OCS is still sticking into the light path. It only presente a very small obstruction.

At high power though, your focuser will be racked all the way out, and it is doubtful that in most configurations, you will have anything still protruding into the light path, and this is when it is most important because this is where you will be doing planets, yes? Here, no protusion is good, and with the Supersystem, you won't have to worry about this because if you need extensions for reach low power focus, you will still be fully racking out for high power, and perhaps still having to slighly pull out the OCS tube.

Many peopel report not being bothered at all by slipping the OCS in and out for high power, but my personal preference would be to allow a little light path intrusion in low power and avoid ever slipping the OCS to reach high power.

That is a strongly personal preference I admit, but the goal for me was to not fuss with stuff.

Slipping the arm and refocusing is one thing, but slipping the arm, loosening the screws, slipping the OCS out, tightening the screws, and refocusing is about three times more tedious (loosne the screws, tightend the screws, then loosen the screws and tighten teh screws to put it all back).

I would rather replace the focuser than do this every time I use the high power arm.

If I can't make binoviewing as simple as monoviewing, I would be far less of a fan.


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6013247 - 08/08/13 09:46 AM

Ed, what is the OCS you refer to? I don't have anything except the 2" nose piece that came with the BV.

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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6013515 - 08/08/13 12:04 PM

Ah, I thought you had the complete supersystem.


If you don't have a Supersystem there is no way you will reach focus with what you have unless you take one of these steps:
  • Use a barlow
  • Move your mirrors closer together (which may mean having to get a bigger secodary mirror)
  • or get a supersystem with powerswitch


Unlike SCTs, using a binoviewer in a Newt or Dob is just about impossible unless you do one of these things.

In fact, the same is true for most refractors except that you would cut the tube rather than move the mirrors closer together.

Binoviewers are complicated..

That should be in my signature line.. LOL


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6013750 - 08/08/13 01:42 PM

Not sure what you mean by "complete super system"

I bought DenkII with the Power Switch at NEAF and it came with two nose pieces. I had them remove the 1.25" nose piece to save some $$$ as I thought I was only going to use it in my SCT with a 2" diagonal.

Are you saying that the other 1.25" nose piece I had removed had some glass in it? Is this what you are referring to as a OCS?

Bob


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6013814 - 08/08/13 02:09 PM

The OCS screws on to the 2" extension tube and if focus is not enough then either screw in or out the 2" tubes,I have two and use in refractors, SCT and newt.Did You get the larger OCS at NEAF?
Pete


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: germana1]
      #6013853 - 08/08/13 02:24 PM

Sounds like he has no OCS at all. Best idea Bob is to contact Russ at Denkmeier and let him know you are getting a dob. You'll need an extension tube added to the 2" nosepiece and OCS for the PowerSwitch to work in a dob. Or, another solution that doesn't require an OCS is to insert the binos into a 2" 2X barlow just as you would an eyepiece - but with the extension/OCS you can get much lower magnification, around 1.3-1.4X.

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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #6013884 - 08/08/13 02:40 PM

By the way does anyone know if you lengthen the tube does it increase or decrease the magnification? And is there any difference between newt ocs and refactor ocs? As I have 3 1 Newt 1 regular and the new 45 ocs
Pete

Edited by germana1 (08/08/13 02:41 PM)


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: germana1]
      #6013900 - 08/08/13 02:48 PM

Lengthening the tube increases the mag and decreases the amount of in-focus needed.

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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #6013913 - 08/08/13 02:53 PM

Thanks Johnny.
Pete


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #6013940 - 08/08/13 03:04 PM

"Lengthening the tube" What tube are you refereeing to? I can put a 1-2" extension tube into the diagonal and then insert the BV, but I thought I needed to go the other way, in focus length....sure gets confusing using BV's.

Now, when I want to use my other WO BV with my 80ED, I have to screw in the 1.6x barlow IN FRONT of the diagonal to acheive focus. My Dob just showed up, so if I get even a small break in the clouds tonight I may be able to try to focus on a star to see what's up with all of this?

Thanks again for all your help:)

Bob


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6014554 - 08/08/13 08:44 PM

By "lengthening the tube" I was referring to the 2" nosepiece of the binoviewer. You add an extension to the nosepiece plus the OCS, so you have like a 4-5" nosepiece with an OCS barlow element screwed onto the end. The Denkmeier website has a manual that explains it all in the newt section.

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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #6015231 - 08/09/13 07:45 AM

Johnny,

Thanks for the explanation. I have a 35mm extension tube that came with my new scope to help with focusing some other 2" EP's is what they said. Now if you are saying that I need an additional piece of glass "OCS" to add to the light path to achieve focus, then that's something I'll have to get.

Just read the instructions on the Denk site and I clearly see the OCS in place for use in a Dob scope. I guess this part that I had him remove from the kit I will now have to be purchased from him.

Thanks,

Bob


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6015250 - 08/09/13 07:53 AM

Quote:

Johnny,

Thanks for the explanation. I have a 35mm extension tube that came with my new scope to help with focusing some other 2" EP's is what they said. Now if you are saying that I need an additional piece of glass "OCS" to add to the light path to achieve focus, then that's something I'll have to get.

Just read the instructions on the Denk site and I clearly see the OCS in place for use in a Dob scope. I guess this part that I had him remove from the kit I will now have to be purchased from him.

Thanks,

Bob




This is it.

http://deepskybinoviewer.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product...


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #6015260 - 08/09/13 08:02 AM

Thanks for the link. I see they want $250 for it....Hmmm, well when he removed it from the package at NEAF, he deducted $100, so maybe I can get hime to sell it back to me for the same price? I'll have to call Russ.

BTW, is my BV going to work better with my new 10" f/1250 at lower power and brighter image then my 8" SCT f/2500?

Bob


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6016008 - 08/09/13 02:43 PM

Quote:

I have a 35mm extension tube that came with my new scope to help with focusing some other 2" EP's is what they said. Now if you are saying that I need an additional piece of glass "OCS" to add to the light path to achieve focus, then that's something I'll have to get.



Bob - What you want is the "middle newtonian spacer" in this photo, and you can see the OCS screwed onto the end. You might want to put a wanted ad in to save some $$, a lot of people have these extra. My guess is Russ will give you a discount though since you just purchased your system.

The 35mm extension you have referred to is probably the traditional 2" extension with a thumbscrew on one end and a 2" sleeve on the other, this is to achieve more out-focus and not what we are talking about here. The "newtonian extension" you want is a nosepiece extension, all 2" outer diameter and fits completely into a 2" drawtube, and the length is also adjustable to help achieve best focus.


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #6016039 - 08/09/13 03:04 PM

Thanks Johnny....so I need the middle spacer and the OCS together, right? Like I thought, that was the piece that originally came with the kit, but I did not have a Dob at the time and thought I would save some $$$ by removing it.

So yes, I will have to ask Russ if I can "have it back" for the $100 credit he took off when I bought it. So looking at this photo, the two tubes sticking out of the BV look like about 3-4" long. It seems that the end of the tube with the OCS on the end is going to stick right through the focuser and into the tube of the scope? Guess it's no big deal as this is the way it's done....oh well more money to spend on this hobby!


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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6016093 - 08/09/13 03:30 PM

Yes the tube will intrude into the light cone a bit on the lower power setting but it will not effect the view. On the middle and higher powers it will not intrude as the focus is pushed outwards. You may however need to re-adjust the length of the extension to reach focus at all three powers if your drawtube length is less than 2". It can get complicated, as some would say...

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