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Asbytec
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5999318 - 07/30/13 11:56 PM

Rick, maybe the plume is bovine flatulence further supporting my theory over the chicken feet concept.

(Not ridicule of this observation, but ref to an earlier humorous lunar thread.)


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brianb11213
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5999487 - 07/31/13 03:31 AM

Quote:

I'm a little surprised at the hostility I'm seeing here.
If this is a hoax, then ha ha, well done.

Otherwise, let's consider what if it's a real event. Possibly the aftermath of an impact? A close look at high-res before and after shots might be instructive. Also, has anyone searched the web; did anyone else see this?



Yeah, I agree with this: are there any lunar orbiters which have high resolution imaged this area in the past and could be tasked to do so again?

I really don't know what's going on here. I'm more than a little skeptical of the impact origin, not because I don't believe it can happen but because the "plume" seems to be inconsistent: the bright spot which might indicate an impact point together with the sharpest part of the plume appears to be at the 8 o'clock position relative to the crater centre in the early frames, transferring to the 2 o'clock position in the later frames, which leads me to suspect that this might be an imaging artifact of some sort, possibly an internal reflection of some sort or other.

Nevertheless I consider this to be an interesting observation worthy of professional follow-up.

One thing is certain: lunar impacts do occur and eventually will be well documented.


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brianb11213
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: brianb11213]
      #5999525 - 07/31/13 04:45 AM

Further reflection reinforces my skepticism.

Is the bright plume shining by reflection or by its own heat? If by reflection (the impact dug up brighter material from beneath the lunar surface) it should remain visible as a bright ray long after the event. If the plume was hot enough to shine by direct radiation, the impact point should have been a whole lot brighter.

As I say, I do believe that observable impacts occur, but rather rarely, and I also believe that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Without wishing to insult the integrity or honesty of the original poster, I do not believe that the image sequence proves a "high energy" event occurred on or near the lunar surface, and I will cling to that belief unless and until high resolution "before & after" images proving me wrong become available.

BTW: just for information: has anyone calculated the observable effect of a small asteroid (similar to that which impacted over Russia earlier this year) on the lunar surface - in terms of the brightness of the impact flash, the probable size of the impact crater or the observability of the ejecta cloud as it increases in size, thins out in density and eventually falls back to the surface?


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5999567 - 07/31/13 06:07 AM

Quote:

I'm a little surprised at the hostility I'm seeing here.
If this is a hoax, then ha ha, well done.

Otherwise, let's consider what if it's a real event. Possibly the aftermath of an impact? A close look at high-res before and after shots might be instructive. Also, has anyone searched the web; did anyone else see this?




Thank You Thank You Very Much.
I can't even begin to consider how or why anyone would even try to make this up. It is what it is.
Personally I'm awe struck by the fact that it happened and even more so because it was actually recorded. Truly a once in a lifetime event.
How often do things like this happen and no one was the wiser either because it was not seen, not recorded and most importantly WAS NOT SHARED!!.
Why do we invest significant resources on this activity? Among other things it is to learn, it is to achieve a higher level of consciousness about our place in the galactic neighborhood, it is the hope that I may be at the right place at the right time to witness astronomical events and when they occur wow, what an opportunity to learn.

I have spent 50+ years as an avid sky watcher and the last 15 years buying relatively expensive equipment and spending endless nights looking through telescopes & binocs and outside of the rare comet or really good meteor shower there has not been many exceptional things to see. Admittedly the Messier index has sights to behold and the Lunar Top 100 is eye opening and no one can deny eclipses and super moons are cool but a visible disturbance on the moon. That's a "Holy *BLEEP*" if I've ever seen one. I'm just happy the disturbance was up there and not down here if you know what I'm saying. This one makes up for lost time and justifies to some extent the amount of money spent but Boy Howdy I'm glad this ain't a Pay Per View.

As far fetched as this may sound I am holding out that this was not necessarily an impact event and will for the time respectfully qualify it only as a "disturbance" pending further review.

Anyways still looking for answers but if this were an impact event I believe something that big someone should have known about and made folks aware of.

Has anyone heard anything on the news anywhere about this????

Edited by Trblmkr (07/31/13 06:29 AM)


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Asbytec]
      #5999592 - 07/31/13 06:40 AM Attachment (19 downloads)

Here is a pretty decent JPL/NASA Shot of the Maginus Crater (as its called). There a many easily identifiable anomalies in this picture that are probably not associated with the geology, Oops sorry didn't mean to stir the (conspiracy) pot.

Edited by Trblmkr (07/31/13 09:34 AM)


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brianb11213
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #5999643 - 07/31/13 07:59 AM

Quote:

Here is on pretty decent JPL/NASA Shot of the Area.



Yes but it's lacking sufficient resolution to show anything ... from the size of the plume in your images I'd expect any impact crater to be under 100 metres in diameter ... what is needed is a pair of "before" and "after" images taken under reasonably similar lighting which have resolution down to 5 to 10 metres or smaller ... Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter or similar, not ground based images which have very little chance of resolving detail at the 100 metre level.


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azure1961p
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #5999646 - 07/31/13 08:04 AM

Quote:



I have spent 50+ years as an avid sky watcher and the last 15 years buying relatively expensive equipment




And Im greatly impressed with your high resolution image, 10" dob and Sky pic home brew rig. What you really ought to do is post this image and explanation in the solar system imaging forum where the pros can help you with your interpretation. Now I don't know if they have spent equal amounts of money over many years to attain what you have but they do have a lot of experience and could help here.

Pete


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

Loc: La Union, PI
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: brianb11213]
      #5999789 - 07/31/13 10:19 AM

Quote:

Yes but it's lacking sufficient resolution to show anything ... from the size of the plume in your images I'd expect any impact crater to be under 100 metres in diameter ... what is needed is a pair of "before" and "after" images taken under reasonably similar lighting...




And it's a pre event image, it won't show anything. A current image is what's needed. I suspect it will be a small impact, as well, but how small? Before and after under similar lighting might show a fresh ejecta blanket, if indeed, an event occurred. Also, if we know the time between the exposures we might be able to calculate whether the plume settled according to the laws of gravity. That would be a bit of proof of an event. Basically, we need a new crater or other new feature or an image of fresh ejecta.


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5999807 - 07/31/13 10:28 AM Attachment (16 downloads)

QUOTE; "And Im greatly impressed with your high resolution image, 10" dob and Sky pic home brew rig. What you really ought to do is post this image and explanation in the solar system imaging forum where the pros can help you with your interpretation. Now I don't know if they have spent equal amounts of money over many years to attain what you have but they do have a lot of experience and could help here".

Personally I'm more impressed with the Tele-vue optics since the Steady Pics Mounts does not easily allow the camera to line up perpendicular to the face of the lens causing distortion and off center shots, let alone that its at least 3 inches short when using a 4x Barlow.
As far as money invested it is relative to your priorities.
I would have to assume your professional astronomer friends are better equipped than casual amateur astronomers.

Then again if I new ahead of time I would be shooting a Lunar event I might have opted for a closer in view like the one below taken just minutes before the event.

Edited by Trblmkr (07/31/13 10:37 AM)


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #6000411 - 07/31/13 06:36 PM Attachment (25 downloads)

The attached pic is a 250% zoom of the one included earlier with a minor tonal adjustment. Incredible as it may be this close in seems to show a rather large elevated pipe, the smaller white pipes attached to the base provides perspective of height. Even the slight shadow is correct. Is this where Maginus A is suppose to be.
Is this the smoking Chernobyl or just the lunar lay down area for the Irrigation System?? Inquiring minds want to know.
Oh and by the way do they have a permit for that?


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pdxmoon
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Reged: 06/27/13

Loc: Oregon
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #6000667 - 07/31/13 10:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a little surprised at the hostility I'm seeing here.
If this is a hoax, then ha ha, well done.

Otherwise, let's consider what if it's a real event. Possibly the aftermath of an impact? A close look at high-res before and after shots might be instructive. Also, has anyone searched the web; did anyone else see this?




Thank You Thank You Very Much.
I can't even begin to consider how or why anyone would even try to make this up. It is what it is.




Now, this may not be a hoax.

But why would anyone want to create a moon hoax?

THE GREAT MOON HOAX

Because it's good sport!

So, one really doesn't need a reason beyond that.

Which is why it's good, and right, and entirely appropriate, to be politely skeptical.

"Doubting" Thomas


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brianb11213
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: pdxmoon]
      #6001019 - 08/01/13 05:20 AM

Quote:

But why would anyone want to create a moon hoax?

THE GREAT MOON HOAX

Because it's good sport!

So, one really doesn't need a reason beyond that.



Except that the "Great Moon Hoax" was perpetrated by a non observer. The difference here is that an observer appears to have recorded something which is very unusual in his experience and which he believes may have been caused by "high energy activity".

Quote:

Which is why it's good, and right, and entirely appropriate, to be politely skeptical.



I agree that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I do not believe that the "high energy activity event" recorded was a real lunar phenomenon for the reasons I've stated above, but I don't believe that the report is anything other than a genuine record either. I can offer an alternative explanation (light reflection in the scope) but have no evidence to prove or disprove my hypothesis. An impact event is a real possibility but would need proof, and that proof should be available.


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pdxmoon
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Reged: 06/27/13

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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: brianb11213]
      #6001530 - 08/01/13 03:32 PM

I am not suggesting that this is or is not a hoax. The OP asked why anyone would want to fake these photos. I am pointing out the naiveté of that question.

One needs no reason to hoax. One can do so for the sheer mischief of it--observer or non observer.


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: pdxmoon]
      #6002150 - 08/01/13 09:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I

why would anyone want to create a moon hoax?

THE GREAT MOON HOAX

Because it's good sport!

So, one really doesn't need a reason beyond that.

Which is why it's good, and right, and entirely appropriate, to be politely skeptical.

"Doubting" Thomas




You'll get no argument out of me. My dear old Dad always said "Don't Believe Anything That You Hear and Only Half of What You See! In this techno culture It is hard to believe anything that you see so I completely understand any and all skepticism.
As far as a hoax,I can appreciate a joke and have a great since of humor but a hoax based on a subject like this on a public forum with the intent to deceive would seem to be flat out fraudulent and I see no humor in that.

I am appreciative of the acknowledgement the posted pictures are authentic because they truly are. As far as it being a lens reflection or other aberration, I can only say of the many thousands of telescopic and night pictures I have taken its never happened once let alone 10 times. As well a lens flare or reflection would not account for the movement of the rocks or what ever that is on the 2nd thru 10th frames.

I would like nothing more than to believe this was an impact event, that would make this pretty straight forward but of the research I have done it is not adding up to that. In effect (in my opinion) it appears artificial. Similar to a high volume effluent from a large pump or sluice gate. I base this on my experience and familiarity with large water systems used in Power Generation. Hydroelectric dams produce a similar discharge appearance when bypass gates are open. Though I am not suggesting it has anything to do with a dam only that it looks mechanically produced.

I urge everyone to look closely at the last pic I posted. Hit Cntrl + to zoom in to observe the details that were pointed out in that post.

The research continues... Thanks for your interest in this unusual event.

Edited by Trblmkr (08/01/13 09:24 PM)


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steveward53
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Reged: 05/14/12

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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #6002450 - 08/02/13 01:20 AM

Would love to see the thousands of photos you've shot over the last few decades , they must be a fascinating resource spanning the pre-digital era thru to present day,

Perhaps you could post a selection or a link to your gallery/website , such a wealth of experience should be shared around surely , that's why we're here for the most part after all .


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Asbytec
Guy in a furry hat
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Reged: 08/08/07

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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #6002745 - 08/02/13 08:18 AM

Quote:

The research continues... Thanks for your interest in this unusual event.




I'd still urge you to report your findings to a higher level research facility.


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Asbytec]
      #6004078 - 08/02/13 10:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The research continues... Thanks for your interest in this unusual event.




I'd still urge you to report your findings to a higher level research facility.




I am working on getting this into an expert group.


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Asbytec
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Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A new [Re: Trblmkr]
      #6004089 - 08/02/13 10:48 PM



I reported an Ivory Billed Woodpecker sighting made in 1975 to Cornell University. Turns out, they have been recently discovered and are not extinct.


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A [Re: steveward53]
      #6004130 - 08/02/13 11:37 PM

Quote:

Would love to see the thousands of photos you've shot over the last few decades , they must be a fascinating resource spanning the pre-digital era thru to present day,

Perhaps you could post a selection or a link to your gallery/website , such a wealth of experience should be shared around surely , that's why we're here for the most part after all .




I don't have a website or generally post pictures for the sake of posting pictures as I suspect most folks don't. I believe there is little value in it. However posting a picture of a particular subject that poses a question or illustrates a point, it may be appropriate to post in a subject specific forum such as this.

I believe your comment of "a desire to see thousands of photos spanning the last few decades" is a derogatory comment in nature and would ask that you refrain from posting such comments as it has no bearing on the subject at hand. Your positive input to the subject matter is always welcome.

Thanks


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Trblmkr
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Reged: 07/24/13

Loc: Central & Southern Maryland
Re: July 17 - High Energy Activity near Maginus A [Re: Asbytec]
      #6004133 - 08/02/13 11:43 PM

Quote:



I reported an Ivory Billed Woodpecker sighting made in 1975 to Cornell University. Turns out, they have been recently discovered and are not extinct.




And that is Totally Cool in fact Way Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!


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