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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new
      #5979499 - 07/19/13 10:01 AM

As a result of CATSEYE’s ongoing quest to enhance the functionality and quality of its passive collimation tools, a novel mirror-perforation technique implemented during the mirror coating process has been developed and incorporated into their next-generation 2-pupil “XLKP ” (“P” for Precision) autocollimator. The accuracy and placement-precision of this proprietary process has enabled a significant reduction in the XLKP eyepiece & mirror pupil diameters to not only deliver less potential parallax error but also more axial-error resolution than was possible with the XLK model.

The XLKP exhibits “perfect-circle” mirror holes with crisp, clean edge definition and consistent 0.375” separation to align perfectly with the adjacent Delrin® eyepiece pupils. Additionally, the precision of this new process has facilitated a significant reduction in the mirror pupil diameters down to 0.100” providing improved axial error resolution at the point where the secondary reflections “disappear” when using the central pupil for reflection convergence. The diameter of the Delrin® eyepiece pupils has also been reduced by 21% down to 0.078” reducing visual parallax error potential when assessing the visual cues.

The price of the new XLKP is $144 + S&H.

XL & XLK owners can have their unit refurbished and upgraded to the new XLKP configuration for $45 + S&H.

Jim Fly
CATSEYE Collimation


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Howie Glatter
Vendor


Reged: 07/04/06

Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5983415 - 07/21/13 06:19 PM

Hi Jim,

I've had this passive feeling for a while, and I just can't hold out anymore - I'm in. Set one aside and I'll P.M. you.

Didn't NASA always have a back-up?


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SACK
member
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: TX
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5990658 - 07/26/13 02:00 AM

Jim,
Do you have pictures showing these improvements, before and after, that we could see?
Thank you sir!


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JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #5991958 - 07/26/13 08:42 PM

Go to his site, http://www.catseyecollimation.com/ and click on the XLKP which is about 1/3 of the way down on the left menu, and you'll get to that products web page. Good stuff there. I emailed Jim requesting what I need to do to up grade my XLK. Can't wait to get this!

Edited by JayinUT (07/26/13 08:43 PM)


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SACK
member
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: TX
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5993458 - 07/27/13 06:50 PM

Thanks Jay!
I checked that out.
How does a 21% reduction in pupil diameter improve axial error resolution? Is there percentage improvement to be shown? I guess I am looking for maybe a picture showing what looking through the ac's pupil before and after the improvements looks like and how that translates into easier, better, fill in the blank, collimation.

I confess, I am a visual learner.
I see how the mirror holes could be improved as my current xlk's mirror hole edges are ragged and jagged. That has never seemed to bother me so where would it make my experience better. I am kinda asking to be sold, since I highly like the xlk already , I just need to understand it better.

Maybe Jason K can jump in with one of his artful illustrations since they are the bomb!!
Please don't take this wrong, I am just sincerely trying to understand it with all my questions.
Thank you!


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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #5993796 - 07/27/13 10:38 PM

Quote:

Thanks Jay!
I checked that out.
How does a 21% reduction in pupil diameter improve axial error resolution? Is there percentage improvement to be shown? I guess I am looking for maybe a picture showing what looking through the ac's pupil before and after the improvements looks like and how that translates into easier, better, fill in the blank, collimation.

I confess, I am a visual learner.
I see how the mirror holes could be improved as my current xlk's mirror hole edges are ragged and jagged. That has never seemed to bother me so where would it make my experience better. I am kinda asking to be sold, since I highly like the xlk already , I just need to understand it better.

Maybe Jason K can jump in with one of his artful illustrations since they are the bomb!!
Please don't take this wrong, I am just sincerely trying to understand it with all my questions.
Thank you!




The focuser and Primary axial error resolution discrimination capability when looking through the central pupil of the autocollimator are a function of the mirror's pupil diameter (PD) where:

PAE error discrimination = PD/8
FAE error discrimination = PD/4

See Posts:

J. Fly PovRay Simulation Empirical Determination

Jason D. Graphical/Mathematical Determination

A 21% reduction in pupil diameter in the new XLKP versus typical in the XLK translates to an axial error discrimation improvement by the same percentage.


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SACK
member
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: TX
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5993914 - 07/27/13 11:42 PM

thanks Jim!
I must confess I am a bit of a layman, those links were a bit over my head.
But what I did get from your response is that a 21% reduction equates that much more improvement, than why not go 50%? This question is out of curiosity and fun learning. I am sure there are limits which you could explain thoroughly. I will do my best to understand.
Take care and thank you.
And if it is not realistic to explain it simpler, no need to answer and no harm done, I understand some things just cannot be simply put.


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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #5994251 - 07/28/13 08:05 AM

Quote:

thanks Jim!
I must confess I am a bit of a layman, those links were a bit over my head.
But what I did get from your response is that a 21% reduction equates that much more improvement, than why not go 50%? This question is out of curiosity and fun learning. I am sure there are limits which you could explain thoroughly. I will do my best to understand.
Take care and thank you.
And if it is not realistic to explain it simpler, no need to answer and no harm done, I understand some things just cannot be simply put.




Any further reduction of the pupil diameter will generate significant "diffraction" interference that will compromise the clarity and brightness of the A/C's visual queues. The XLKP's "eyepiece" pupil by necessity must be slightly smaller than the mirror's pupil and therefore is the controlling factor. The XLKP EP pupil diameter at 0.078" (the mirror's is 0.010") is pushing the limit of negligable diffraction effect.


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RAKing
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5994433 - 07/28/13 10:08 AM

Jim,

Thanks for trying to explain this better. Like Jonathan, I am very happy with my current XLK and I consider it to be very easy to understand and use.

I guess you are simply trying to tell me that for 45 bucks you can make it even better. Okay - I'll either send my old one back or grab a new one shortly.

Between you and Howie, I haven't worried about collimation for years.

Take care,

Ron


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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #5994925 - 07/28/13 03:05 PM Attachment (26 downloads)

Quote:

Jim,
Do you have pictures showing these improvements, before and after, that we could see?
Thank you sir!




Here's a side-by-side look of a typical XLK mirror with irregular (approximately 0.125") pupils and the new XLKP mirror with "perfect-circle" 0.100" pupils.


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RAKing
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/28/07

Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5995231 - 07/28/13 05:58 PM

Okay - There's the "money shot".

Now I understand.

Thanks,

Ron


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jm510227
member


Reged: 12/02/06

Loc: Tulsa, OK
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5996589 - 07/29/13 01:19 PM

Hello Jim:

I have a "XLKC". Will the XLKP mod give me better collimating vs what
I can get now?

TIA,
Jim Miller/Tulsa


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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: jm510227]
      #5996884 - 07/29/13 03:57 PM

Quote:

Hello Jim:

I have a "XLKC". Will the XLKP mod give me better collimating vs what
I can get now?

TIA,
Jim Miller/Tulsa




The axial error discrimation improvement with the XLKP mirror is at the central pupil so if you are currently using the central pupil for merging all 4 images in your collimation routine, the answer is yes.


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SACK
member
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: TX
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: CatseyeMan]
      #5997421 - 07/29/13 10:34 PM

Thanks Jim!
That pic says alot!
Your attention to detail in your products have helped give me some of the best views ever in my life of those jewels placed in the heavens. Looking forward to an ever better view.

Thanks for your patience and willingness to help me understand, it speaks a bunch as well!
I will contact you about sending my xlk in for the work.


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Jason D
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/21/06

Loc: California
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #6007012 - 08/05/13 03:54 AM

The following info will help explaining the benefits of a smaller uncoated area for the autocollimator central pupil. Note I said "smaller uncoated area" which is what Jim is offering. Do not confused it with a "smaller" pupil. A smaller pupil without uncoated area reduction will not help much.

As the autocollimator mirror reflection gets closer to be aligned with the autocollimator mirror, the central uncoated area reflection will start to overlap with the actual uncoated area. When that happens, the primary mirror center spot reflection#2 will start to fade away and eventually disappear little prematurely. Check the following two animations (in the first animation ignore the second row)





The smaller uncoated area will delay the disappearance of reflection#2 which will allow it to get closer to reflection#P.

If the above is confusing, all you need to know is that the smaller uncoated area for the central autocollimator pupil will provide more accuracy.

Jason


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CatseyeMan
Vendor (Cats Eye Collimation)
*****

Reged: 12/16/04

Loc: Madison, AL USA
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: Jason D]
      #6007203 - 08/05/13 08:25 AM

Thanks yet again Jason for your exquisite animations and explanatory annotation. .

Please note that the "triangular" geometry Jason shows in the 2nd illustratiion is his theoretical proposal to counter "complete" reflection fading and is not not likely to be offered in the autocollimator for other practical reasons.


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SACK
member
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: TX
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: Jason D]
      #6014933 - 08/09/13 12:17 AM

Thank you Jason.
Correct me please if this is wrong so I do not mislead others and myself. Ugh!
So, by #2 being visible/brighter longer, one is able to align better as you can see where the reflections are moving for alignment/collimation as opposed to guessing the last little adjustments/tweaking due to it's early disappearance.
I have noticed that myself from my own experience and kinda remember hoping it was there. Don't have a scope anymore to practice on but will in a little bit.
Thanks again!


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Jason D
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/21/06

Loc: California
Re: CATSEYE “XLKP” A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new [Re: SACK]
      #6016956 - 08/10/13 12:55 AM

Quote:

Thank you Jason.
Correct me please if this is wrong so I do not mislead others and myself. Ugh!
So, by #2 being visible/brighter longer, one is able to align better as you can see where the reflections are moving for alignment/collimation as opposed to guessing the last little adjustments/tweaking due to it's early disappearance.
I have noticed that myself from my own experience and kinda remember hoping it was there. Don't have a scope anymore to practice on but will in a little bit.
Thanks again!




Yes
As reflections 2 and P get closer to being stacked via the primary mirror adjustment, reflection 2 will fade then disappear before its perfectly stacked with reflection P. That will leave the user guessing where reflection 2 is.
The smaller pupil will leave reflection 2 visible longer which means it will disappear closer to reflection P giving more accuracy.
Jason


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Jason D
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/21/06

Loc: California
Re: CATSEYE "XLKP" A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision new
      #6423111 - 03/11/14 01:53 AM Attachment (7 downloads)

 
Last week I had both my XLK and XLK-C upgraded by Catseye to XLKP and XLKP-C. I was so impressed by Catseye quality and workmanship I decided to resurrect this thread to share my impressions. Below is the "before" XLK photo (left) and the "after" XLKP photo (right)
 
 


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seryddwr
Innocent Bystander
*****

Reged: 02/19/10

Loc: La-la land.
Re: CATSEYE "XLKP" A/C Tweaks Quality & Precision
      #6423113 - 03/12/14 10:26 PM

What is the turnaround time on this?


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