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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mayidunk]
      #5993716 - 07/27/13 09:47 PM

But now, after 73 pages, does anyone really know what's going on with Meade yet?

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Spacetravelerx
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Reged: 12/23/12

Loc: New Mexico
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5993732 - 07/27/13 09:59 PM

Quote:

But now, after 73 pages, does anyone really know what's going on with Meade yet?




All I know is they are still selling products, whatever is available. I know some more LX850s and LX600s were shipped. They shipped my filters this week and they have a 130mm APO they would love to sell me (there are a few in stock).

And I know I can still talk to a human there. Friendly folk over there!

As far as the business dealing side, I have no clue. Nothing in the news or the gossip lines.

They still exist though! Now that is something!


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wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5993750 - 07/27/13 10:08 PM

Quote:

But now, after 73 pages, does anyone really know what's going on with Meade yet?




Not sure why people like to quote page counts.. To me, this topic is only 30 pages.. You can change how many posts are displayed per page in your control panel. No big deal.. just pointing it out that some use a custom view.


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A. Viegas
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Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #5993753 - 07/27/13 10:10 PM

One thing I have been wondering is whether or not the acquisition is completed will there be an inventory clearance? Certainly if it all falls apart there will be a liquidation ( scenario 1 ) and even if sunny makes the purchase I think there will be some inventory sales as product focus shifts ( scenario 2 )...

Hence it strikes me that there could be a good opportunity to pick up Meade stuff at good prices in the near future... Of course under scenario 1 there would not be a company left for service... How did prior equipment vendor bankruptcies sell their inventory? Times are different now... But it seems to me it's worth waiting a bit before buying any high end Meade stuff as it could get real cheap, real,soon ...

Al


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5993812 - 07/27/13 10:45 PM

Well , I just got the September 2013 edition of Astronomy magazine in the mail today . On page 58 starts the "Astronomy's fourth annual Star Products" . This is the magazines editors picks for the 2013 Star Products article . Of the 35 chosen products , the Meade LX600-ACF 10" f/8 , the Meade LX850-ACF 12" f/8 and the Meade MAX 20" ACF f/8 are entries 16 , 17 and 18 . Prices are listed at $4,499.00 , $8,999.00 and $35,999.00 respectively .
As Artie Johnson used to say , "Veddy Interresting" .


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jrcrillyAdministrator
Refractor wienie no more
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Reged: 04/30/03

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5993891 - 07/27/13 11:24 PM

Quote:

Meade MAX 20" ACF f/8




That's an odd choice, given how many years it's been around.


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5993906 - 07/27/13 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Meade MAX 20" ACF f/8




That's an odd choice, given how many years it's been around.




It says that it's the company's newly redesigned MAX mount . Whatever that means . I guess the "StarLock" compatability .
.

I know it's waaaay out of my price range .


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OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 11/30/10

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5993923 - 07/27/13 11:58 PM

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.
One for the LS,
one for the LX850
one for the ETX-90
one for the LX600 std 10,12,14
but the one i find interesting is the special 16" LX600.
I have seen no mention of the 16" in the current code,
so maybe they will release a new version soon :-)

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


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ColoHank
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Reged: 06/07/07

Loc: western Colorado
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5993931 - 07/28/13 12:02 AM

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."


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jimb1001
sage
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Reged: 11/14/09

Loc: Florida
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: ColoHank]
      #5994000 - 07/28/13 01:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Is Meade an institution? Is it like the "Harvard or Princeton of the Astronomy hobby?"

Advertisements as monuments? I've always thought they were just, well, ads.

Oh the drama!

Sorry, I just think this whole Meade thing started getting overblown 20 pages ago.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: ColoHank]
      #5994010 - 07/28/13 01:27 AM

My understanding is the company isn't operating normally on the manufacturing end at this point (from what has been said from their disclosures). They can't actually convert remaining stores into competed sellable product. Anyone know better from factual sources?

Starrancher, I think you've hit the nail on the head. That's like having the Ford GT named a car of the year for 2013. Adding a beginner's feature to the sparsely available Max mount is a peculiar reason to call it better. As for picking a fight with PlaneWave in the state they're in, I can only wonder. I've seen a PlaneWave mount do the .2 arc second tracking trick.

And like OzAndrew pointed out, it's vapor ware, anyway.

I still think the ads running now must have been bought some time back. I wish I knew what the real discussions were. Was there no one to say, "We've got to execute our plans to get healthy."?

-Rich


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Starhawk]
      #5994029 - 07/28/13 01:49 AM

Quote:

I still think the ads running now must have been bought some time back. I wish I knew what the real discussions were. Was there no one to say, "We've got to execute our plans to get healthy."?

-Rich




Ad space for the major magazines is purchased at least three months before the issue date. I suspect that the large companies purchase even further ahead than that and in bulk for cost savings. If Meade disappeared tomorrow, it's hard to say what the mags would do but you could still be looking at ads for several months, particularly if inventory is still being cleared out.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5994041 - 07/28/13 01:58 AM

Even if the company were in bankruptcy, I'd anticipate the magazines would still print the ads rather than default on their contracts. I remember how satisfactorily thick and weighty S&T was in 2002. Of course, that was another world entirely.

-Rich


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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: EFT]
      #5994055 - 07/28/13 02:10 AM

The ads are one thing but how do we explain Astronomy magazines inclusion of three major Meade kits in the "2013 Star Products" ?
I would place that outside of being in the realm of an advertisement and more or less a product review . These items chosen by the editors of a major astronomy publication . Products being basically recommended by the publication obviously well past the point of the unknown .


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EddWen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5994088 - 07/28/13 02:45 AM


Yes, we do know what is going on with Meade right now. They are in the process of presenting information to the potential buyers (Sunny Merger Sub) through a process of “due diligence”.

For those who might want to know what this process is, I’ll try to present some examples. If I were the potential buyer, I would want to know more than what is publicly available from SEC Filings. One example: public filings show an inventory of ~$6M. I would like to know what that inventory is. Is it saleable product or returned product that would need a severe haircut to sell, but has been carried at book value ??

Meade has leases for their properties. If I want to cancel the leases, what would it cost ??

Meade employees in Mexico are represented by a union. If I want to close the facility, what costs might be incurred ??

Meade carry a value for intellectual property on the Balance sheet. What is it and what might it’s value really be ?? A lot of Meade product development was done through outside vendors. What were the terms of those agreements ?? Might the IP revert to the originators if certain terms are not met ??

Etc., etc. When you turn a page, you will find another question to ask. So, you can imagine this might be a lengthy process, and you would be right. The due diligence with JOC took 8 weeks. In this case, it might be shorter. Meade had to develop reports for JOC and they might be suitable for Sunny.

You might also recall it seems JOC was not willing to complete a deal for Meade after due diligence. Sunny will make their decision based on their due diligence findings.

I wouldn’t read anything into the ad placements. They are typically bought with at least a 6-month lead time for prime locations, and were paid for.

Someone mentioned the chance of a fire-sale price for products. Could happen several ways. Dealers might have inventory that they’ve paid for and might want to blow it out. If Sunny does a deal and the plan it to move the company elsewhere, they might want to dump inventory. If the Sunny doesn’t do a deal, it is likely Meade will do bankruptcy. In that case, a Judge will decide what will be done with the assets of Meade to pay claims from owed entities. Could be handled different ways. Auction, proceeds going to claimants. Goods returned to vendors. Etc. Not predictable.

Anyway, none of this will be public information except whether Sunny does a deal and the price it paid. And, if they don’t do a deal, Meade will declare bankruptcy and public information will be scarce and hard to find, unless you are a claimant.


Quote:

But now, after 73 pages, does anyone really know what's going on with Meade yet?




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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: starrancher]
      #5994094 - 07/28/13 02:48 AM

It begs some uncomfortable questions, doesn't it. Almost as if the product recommendations had been sold.

-Rich


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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: ColoHank]
      #5994112 - 07/28/13 03:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )


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mclewis1
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Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5994516 - 07/28/13 10:59 AM

Quote:

Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )



Well it does give someone an idea of the magnitude of Meade's advertising budget and the importance Meade placed on print advertising.

As was mentioned earlier those detailed, technical, (and to many, beautiful) advertisements had a big impact on the perception of Meade in the marketplace. Those ads were clearly a very important part of Meade.


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: mclewis1]
      #5994755 - 07/28/13 01:27 PM

For the monument comment, I think Hank (fire away if I have it wrong) was pointing out the 20" Meade Max package was a monument. There is like maybe 1 in the field, if that one is even still in the wild. Clearly a monument to the company, and not to put too fine a point on it, very obviously out of their depth. Until about a year ago Meade was slamming out the "We're the biggest!" beat pretty hard, long after it obviously was an internal viewpoint not supported by observations.

-Rich


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Starhawk
Space Ranger
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Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: The plot thickens (Meade takeover) [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5994772 - 07/28/13 01:44 PM

Rick,

Good memory- I had forgotten about those pages of ads. It really is amazing how influential a few pages of glossy full color ads can be at forming what is clearly for some a very permanent impression of "We're the biggest. We're the best" entirely with paper.

This also shows how dangerous it is to read your own ads and form that impression, yourself.

-Rich

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Down here, our latest "Australian Sky & Telescope'
has 5 full page ads for Meade.




Reminds me of a quote from C. N. Parkinson:

"Institutions in decline build monuments to themselves."




Eh, maybe; but back in the 90's, every issue of S&T had practically the entire Meade catalog taking up the first 10 pages. (Don't ask me what that has to do with anything. )




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