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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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axle01
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Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Townsville Nth Qld Australia
Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: crow]
      #5992221 - 07/26/13 11:52 PM

Eddgie can you post a photo of the tube adapter that screws into the bino that then goes into the dovetail connector.

I want to see how long it is compared to the original one.

I have a order for a dovetail connector #44/46 and adapter #42 and was interested in how long the new one is.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5993334 - 07/27/13 05:20 PM Attachment (40 downloads)

I am not at all sure that I know exactly what you want a picture of, but if you just want to see the Dovetail that will allow the Binotron to work with the T2 diagonals, here it is.

This is the prototype and the unit will be 1.5mm longer than this on the dovetail in the picture. I determined that the prototype did not have sufficient engagment with the quick connector and recommend the change... The next revision is being cut soon and I will have it hopefully in a week or so, and it should be about the same lenght as the Baader dovetail then.

I get the impression that B27 sales are very strong and Russ is giving his attention to filling back orders now so this is (rightfully) a lower priority.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5993335 - 07/27/13 05:21 PM

Again, this is a prototype and not at all indicitave of the final product. It is like a first draft.

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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5993664 - 07/27/13 09:02 PM

Thanks Eddgie, so that screws into the bottom of the bino, so how can you rotate the bino if the taper is locked into the diagonal.

I have a Williams Optics diagonal and the eyepiece adapter has the same taper but it is locked in place with 4 grub screws under the side plates, so I don't understand how the bino can rotate if the taper is locked in place.

Do you know what size thread it is, I can easily machine one up if I know what size thread it is.

I hope you understand what I mean.




Edited by axle01 (07/27/13 09:28 PM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? [Re: axle01]
      #5994009 - 07/28/13 01:25 AM

This part is designed for use with the Baader Quick Connector, which threads on to the top of the Baader T2 Prism and Maxbright Mirror diagonals. It is not really intended for any other application.

The Baader T2 prism is only 38mm in light path, so that is an important factor for keeping the light path short in an SCT.

Look up "Baader Quick Connector" and you will see the parts involved, and again, the quick connnector goes on to the top of the baader Diagonal, which has T2 threads.

The Quick Connector has a screw on it that retains the flare of the part in the picture and the screw is inserted enough to lock the diagonal into the Quick connector, but not so tight taht it can't turn...


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5994071 - 07/28/13 02:33 AM

Eddgie do you know what the thread size is for the adapter that screws into the bottom of the bino.

Edited by axle01 (07/28/13 02:35 AM)


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5994337 - 07/28/13 09:12 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

The Baader Quick Connector is a socket that the dovetail inserts in to.

Going though the side of the Quick Connector, there is a retention screw. This screw is turned in to engage the grove in the dovetail.

On the opposite side of the dovetail, there are two small lips that also catch the grove.

The screw is not tightend. It is left a bit loose. The flare of the dovtail under the lips and the screw keep the dovetail from falling out, and because the screw is not tight, the dovetail (and binoviwer) can turn on its axis.

Here is a picture looking down into the top of the Quick Connector, which is screwed on to the top of my diagonal.

You can see the little retaining lips.

The dovetail is tilted in so that one side of of the flare goes under the little lips sticking out from 6:00 and 9:00 o'clock in the picture.

The screw then is screwed in so that the tip captures the flair of the dovtail on the other side.

Again, the screw is not tightened. The two lips and the screw tip ride in circular groove so the unit can rotate.

I do not know anything about your diagonal, but for this system to work, you must must use the Baader Quick Change connector, and the quick change connector only works with a diagonal with T2 threads on top.

The only diagonals that I am personally aware of that have this connector on top are all made by Baader: The T2 Prism, The T2 Zeiss Prism, the T2 Amici Prism, and the Maxbright Mirror (not the 2" Clicklock diagonal).

If your diagonal has T2 threads on top though, you only need to purchase the Dovetail Connector (when it is avialable) and the Quick Change Ring.

And if it does not have T2 threads, I don't know how this would work with it.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5994359 - 07/28/13 09:25 AM Attachment (24 downloads)

Here is a picture of the installation.

The Binoviwer is tilted, and one side of the dovetail flair is inserted into the Quick Connector under the little lugs you see in the previous picture.

Next, the BV is tilted flat so that the screw side is fully inserted.

When the screw is now turned it, the rounded tip engages the other side of the dovetail.

The two lugs and the screw tip are not riding in the groove and friction is the only think that keeps it from turning (you can put a little tension on the screw tip to hold it in a fixed position

Hope this helps.


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5995286 - 07/28/13 06:34 PM

Thanks Eddgie, got this from Russ this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R8d40T_Iyw

What I was trying to explain was I was thinking of doing away with the middle section and drilling and taping a thread into the side of the diagonal and using a thumb screw to hold the bino and let it rotate.
The Williams Optics has the same flare or taper as the part that screws into the bino.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5995325 - 07/28/13 07:07 PM

Yes, similar concept to the T2 Quick Connector, but not interchangeable,

I have been working with Russ know for a couple of week though and I know he is committed to providing short light path options. Happy to see this one, but still recommed the T2 prism for people using SCTs that want to get as short as possible.


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5995381 - 07/28/13 07:46 PM

In this photo you can see the taper or flare on the Williams Optics eyepiece holder.



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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5995382 - 07/28/13 07:47 PM

Second photo I want to remove "B" and "C" and install the piece that you have shown in the photo in the second post on this page



Edited by axle01 (07/28/13 07:50 PM)


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BrianG
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5996064 - 07/29/13 07:54 AM

That's the way I have mine connected. I replaced the Denk/WO diagonal nose piece with a 42 adapter (from Russ)It then screws directly into the power switch. It doesn't quick disconnect, it more makes the bino's and diagonal one unit. works well for my needs.

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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: BrianG]
      #5996094 - 07/29/13 08:16 AM

Brian I am quite happy to leave the bino connected to the WO diagonal permanently and I intend drilling into the both sides of the diagonal and fit thumb screws to lock the bino and allow it to rotate, so all I really need is the #42 adapter.

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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #5996106 - 07/29/13 08:25 AM

Oh, that short video explains it very well. So using the Baader diagonal, the other end has a screw on SCT threaded adapter which then connects to the SCT, right?

So in the end, this system must be the shortest light path solution possible for the BV I would think. That should be able to chop off at least 50mm from my current 260mm LP I would think, maybe more?

Bob


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axle01
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6004143 - 08/02/13 11:51 PM

Does any one know the optical path length and field stop diameter of a
Williams Optics 1.25 diagonal
Williams Optics 2" diagonal
Baader 1.25 diagonal


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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: axle01]
      #6004416 - 08/03/13 08:01 AM

So, more questions following this post. So if we could remove parts B & C and somehow connect the Denk PS directly into the WO diagonal, then for me, instead of using the SCT tube on the other side of the diagonal to insert into the OTA on the back of the SCT, I use a SCT screw on adapter on the diagonal to connect? Currently my Meade OTA is about 32mm long

Thanks for all your suggestions and yes, a picture is worth 1000 words, so nice image Axle.

Bob


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BrianG
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: REC]
      #6007169 - 08/05/13 07:53 AM

Does direct connecting the BV to the diagonal change the Magnification factors of the power switch (1.3X, 2.3X, 3X)?

In the manual it states: By placing the OCS cell directly onto the diagonal body, two things are accomplished - The focus position is brought more inward toward the telescope,
and the magnification is slightly lowered in all Power
x Switch settings.

I was wondering if shortening the light path on the back side of the diagonal had the same effect.


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Eddgie
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: BrianG]
      #6013206 - 08/08/13 09:26 AM

Yes, has the same effect because it is still in front of the That is the spacing the determines the magnification factors.

The closer you get the OCS to the Power Switch, the lower the powers will be.

But there is a tradeoff. This also means that you need more in-travel and it might be possible that some scopes would not reach focus.

I did not have that problem in my 6" APO though. I was able to reach focus with about the same amount of travel left as when I used the Maxbrights with a 1.25x OCS inserted in front of the Prism (which gives 1.5x).

And that was the Maxbrights with a very short light path (110mm vs 147 for the Binotron with Power Switch).

I could get lower powers and a wider true field than wtih the Mark Vs.

I used a 2" diagonal and I cold see that the field was a bit darker and a bit narrower than with the 1.25 Prism.

Anyway, yes, the smaller prism brings the OCS closer to the low power arm reducer and gives a little lower power and wider field.

If you can reach focus with the 1.5x GPC and Mark Vs though, it could be that you could still get about as wide a field.

The low power arm means that eyepeices over 24.7mm field stop will vignette. The Mark V allows a 28mm field stop.

If you used 24mm Hyperions (also having a 28mm field stop) the field would be almost as wide as it would be with the D21s, but the power would be higher.

But you would have to be able to reach focus at 1.5x with the Mark Vs and many refractors won't reach focus with the 1.25x GPC in the 1.25x position.

Binoviewers are complicated.

I did test though, and I was able to reach focus easily with the T2 Prism on the Binotron Supersystem.

Powers would be about 75x, 133x, and 173x.

Not a terrible range, but again, not really appealing to me because of starting with too small an aperture.

I could go to something like the 27mm Flat Fields though, and get a bit lower power, but at the expense of a bit of the higher power, and this "Compresses" the magnification factors of the power switch to 58x, 103x, and 135x.

THe step steps in this case between the medium and high power are a little to compressed to me. I would prefer a bit more of a step between mid and high power.

This was just the opposite in the SCT where the step between medium and high was often way to big in the C14 makeing (for me personally) the high power arm mostly unusable.


All compromises. Even in a Dob there are compromises, but when they all trade out, I think that the Supersystem gives the greatest benefit in small to medium Dobs. The range of magnifications is to me far more useful for the apeture so that the low is "low enough" and the high is "High enough" for most observing.

And that was why I picked the 12" f/4.9 scope. It provided a lot of brightness, with a reasonably low power and a high power that was still usable for seeing on many nights.

On the occasional night when I can use more power, I will change to a 15mmm Plossl pair, but I do a lot of planetary observing at 225x, so this shoud be about perfect for me.

And it is all about me... LOL....

Only kidding.

But Binoviwers to me are the most complex purchasse I have ever made, and one should really do the math before buying any system (Mark V, Binotron, or whatever).

I love the Binotron in the Dob though, but likely won't use it in the 6" APO. I am just not a small apeture kind of guy.


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REC
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Re: Hmmmm, what's this???? new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6013218 - 08/08/13 09:31 AM

Hi Ed, I have a 10" DOB coming in this week (along with the rain)do you think I will be able to get my Denk2 PS to focus without adding on any thing to the focuser?

I have pairs of 16,20 and 26mm EP's.

Thanks,

Bob


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