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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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hiro
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/17/07

Loc: Tokyo
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6006828 - 08/04/13 11:27 PM

Hi Forest,

I have experienced 5D, 5Dmk2, and 5Dmk3 with FSQ-106ED. All DSLRs are modified on IR cut-off filter. I may be able to put here additional 2 cents.

#1, Martin's sample image tells the truth. Those full frame DSLRs make the same kind of dark area near the edges. It is said to be shadow of EOS mirror box. The area is a little wider near the lower edge, which is said to be made by reverse side of mirror itself. FSQ-106ED also makes such shadow on EOS full size sensor, though it is only near the upper and lower edges. I have never experienced shadow near the both side edges in Martin's image. We need to correct the darkness and color near edges manually even after usual cooking with dark frames and flat frames. Red tends to be weaker near edges.

#2, 5DMk2 is far better than 5D, but 5Dmk3 is not so much different from 5Dmk2 at least in astroimaging.

Good luck for you.


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SunBlack
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/05/11

Loc: Rome (IT)
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6007392 - 08/05/13 10:57 AM

Go for a modded 6D.

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forestc
member
*****

Reged: 11/29/12

Loc: Missoula, Montana
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: SunBlack]
      #6007505 - 08/05/13 12:16 PM

This is a tough decision. So many conflicting opinions, I don't want to have every image with dark corners....but i also know I could just crop.... Hmmmm.

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forestc
member
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Reged: 11/29/12

Loc: Missoula, Montana
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6008155 - 08/05/13 06:58 PM

Alright, after some thinking I feel I need to ask one more question. Is there any disadvantage to a modded 60D when compared to the stock 60Da? I know that there's the obvious waiting time, but beyond that.....

Thank you all so much for all that you've told me.


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mmalik
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6008214 - 08/05/13 07:39 PM

Some say modded 60D passes more Ha than 60Da; I say difference in not significant. 60Da comes modded from the factory, and that makes it the ONLY camera of its kind! Thx

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Falcon-
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/11/09

Loc: Gambier Island, BC, Canada
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: mmalik]
      #6008453 - 08/05/13 09:51 PM

Quote:

Some say modded 60D passes more Ha than 60Da




Yes... Some say that.

Like.... Canon. Canon's marketing material says "the EOS 60Da captures approximately 3x the hydrogen-alpha (Hα) rays than the EOS 60D". A stock camera's UV/IR filter is *measured* (Here fig 7 on right, and here) at ~20%. 3x 20% = 60%. Baader UV/IR filters and equiv are *measured* (here again, or here) to pass 95%+.

Perhaps more importantly as it is not wise to trust marketing materials and assumptions is that there are direct compairisons with stock, 60Da and modifed DSLRs such as this one here and this one here that confirm the greater response of a modified DSLR vs the 60Da. Those comparisons bear out the ~30% increased response of a standard modified DSLR vs the 60Da

So....

Quote:

I say difference in not significant.




My opinion is that the diffrence is significant.


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Falcon-
Post Laureate
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Reged: 09/11/09

Loc: Gambier Island, BC, Canada
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6008470 - 08/05/13 10:01 PM

Quote:

Alright, after some thinking I feel I need to ask one more question. Is there any disadvantage to a modded 60D when compared to the stock 60Da? I know that there's the obvious waiting time, but beyond that.....




In my mind:

60Da Advantages:
- "Pre-modified." Use it as soon as you get it!
- Has warranty <- the big one!
- Slightly better colour balance for daylight photography (without using colour correcting filters)
- Comes with the AC adaptor (battery alternative) out of the box
60Da Disadvantages:
- higher cost
- not quite as Ha sensitive as modified


60D (modified) Advantages:
- Improved Ha response
- Less expensive (even after cost of mod and buying AC adaptor)
60D (modified) Disadvantages:
- Warranty voided.
- the slight delay while you get the camera modified
- Stronger need for custom white balances for daylight photography (if no colour correcting filter used)


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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
*****

Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6008522 - 08/05/13 10:26 PM

With typical wait times from most of us mod'ers, you could have it *nearly* just as quickly as a new 60Da...assuming you have it shipped directly to them/us..
The reality is that it is typically a week(5-8days or so) wait time, including shipping to and from from them/us...

So **I** do no see any downside...

The opinions about full frame are true...but if you consider the FACT that the full frame sensor WILL give you better images, both daytime and for AP, who cares if you have to crop a bit off?? I would rather have a brilliant large sensor that I have to crop a bit off of VS having a sensor that is inferior(when compared to full frame) and you can never increase the FOV or sensor size when connected to optics that can deliver full frame illumination...

Not saying anything negative about smaller sensor cameras, just that full frame really is that much better and clearly has superior image quality...

The way I approach all purchases is by lookin at it from the perspective of how that item will be used THE MOST...
Since I do 10x (actually actually like 100x) more daytime photography ,I will always base my camera decisions from that perspective...so sill always go with the best I can afford...currently that is a Nikon D600 (coming soon) as it ha the absolute best sensor available right now (24Mp Sony)...

If you will be doing a lot of daytime or are very particular with image quality, AND have the $$$, go full frame and figure out the AP stuff when you actually have it in hand and can test it on your gear....IF you have to crop it so much that it is down to APS-C sized images, the full frame sensor will STILL deliver the superior image..Period..

If you will only be doing a little daytime photography,then a crop camera will be perfectly fine and more than enough quality for all but the most demanding users.
And the 60D is definitely near the top of current APS-C Castro capable cameras..

Basically, an easy way to to say this is;
If you plan on using your camera to make $, whether full or part time, get a semi pro body with full frame sensor and b ready for whatever jobs come your way...
Unless that job is sports...then I would suggest a crop camera simply for the speed....though the 5D3 could easily keep up in most sports arenas..
(I would still never consider the 7D as I have owned two, may be three, over the years and hated the image quality...the 60D was miles above any 7D...I have owned 4-5x 60D's over the years and would gladly put a lot of trust and faith into that model. In fact..I would go so far so as to say that the 60 is the only model I have ever used that has made/let me forget it was a crop camera..


Also, if you are worried about the whole warranty issue when you modify a camera, you should ask around because some "guys" sell modified cameras with a 6 month warranty included...
So while not as good as the stock warranty,it should provide enough peace of mind to know that IF there is anything wrong it would be fixed under warranty

All IMHO and YMMV


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vdb
sage


Reged: 12/08/09

Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6008750 - 08/06/13 02:51 AM

What I've never seen mentioned and I don't know the answer, it has been proven that canon modifies the raw file (not like Nikon used to do), they rescale the data ... which makes sense for daytime photography ...
Is that behaviour eliminated in the 60Da?
(http://www.stark-labs.com/craig/articles/assets/CanonLinearity.pdf)


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Falcon-
Post Laureate
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Reged: 09/11/09

Loc: Gambier Island, BC, Canada
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: vdb]
      #6008767 - 08/06/13 03:19 AM

vdb: I would be *EXTREMELY* surprised if the 60Da behaves any different in that regard then the 60D would

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forestc
member
*****

Reged: 11/29/12

Loc: Missoula, Montana
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: Falcon-]
      #6009083 - 08/06/13 10:07 AM

Great! That all makes sense. Now I just need to decide. I can truly say that I'm between a modded 60D or a modded 6D. I just don't know which yet. Because the price of the 60D just went down to $600, that's a very attractive option, but I love bigger sensors.

Also, this camera will primarily be used for astro, so I know that the bigger sensor will only require me to crop.

Thank you all so much for your help, I need to figure out where to go from here.


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vdb
sage


Reged: 12/08/09

Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: Falcon-]
      #6009775 - 08/06/13 03:54 PM

Quote:

vdb: I would be *EXTREMELY* surprised if the 60Da behaves any different in that regard then the 60D would




Me too, but it would make sense if they eliminated this behaviour, maybe someone should mail them with a feature request ...


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martl
sage


Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Innsbruck/Austria
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6009788 - 08/06/13 04:02 PM

If you use it with the right optics, it will give you great satisfaction. The few times I used a 5DMKII, the results always left me a great deal happier than with my 350Da or 600Da. However those were shot with my 80/500mm refractor (check here: http://www.heiligkreuz.at/astro/galerie/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=0 (unmodded) and here: http://www.heiligkreuz.at/astro/galerie/displayimage.php?album=80&pos=3 (modded). I had no reason to think that this wouldn't work with a newton, especially because Ivan Eder has used a 5DMKII with Wynne corrector and Newtons for quite a while with outstanding results. Just after my first disappointing takes I discovered that he had the same problems and cropped his images.

So again to emphasize this: If you choose a well corrected refractor (preferably a triplet design) with some good flattener, you will be very happy with the results with a full frame sensor. With a 60Da, you have a greater selection of optics including fast newtonians, BUT fast newtonians are NOT easy to tame. Refractors are the easiest system to handle for photography. So if the price is not an obstacle, I would seriously consider to go the full frame route and carefully choose suitable optics for that.

CS
Martin


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forestc
member
*****

Reged: 11/29/12

Loc: Missoula, Montana
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: martl]
      #6010158 - 08/06/13 07:23 PM

I've made up my mind, I'm going to go with the 60D. Anything I should know before I order? Would it be smart to contact the person that I want to do the modification before hand?

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fetoma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 09/26/06

Loc: Southern New Jersey
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6010311 - 08/06/13 08:49 PM

I'd have it shipped right to Brent to save time.

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dc_robert
sage
*****

Reged: 04/17/13

Loc: Washington, DC
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III [Re: forestc]
      #6010312 - 08/06/13 08:49 PM

Quote:

I've made up my mind, I'm going to go with the 60D. Anything I should know before I order? Would it be smart to contact the person that I want to do the modification before hand?




Yep, that'll be required. If you visit their website, you'll see you have ANOTHER choice to make about what filter to have installed.

Glad you decided on a modified 60D. That's the route I took and I'm just starting out in astrophotography. Gratified to see my decision confirmed by a professional.


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forestc
member
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Reged: 11/29/12

Loc: Missoula, Montana
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: dc_robert]
      #6011462 - 08/07/13 12:58 PM

Alright, I emailed Brent to get the process stated. I'm going with a converted 60D. Thank you all for your help.

-Forest


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rflinn68
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/09/12

Loc: Arkansas
Re: 60Da vs. 5D Mark III new [Re: forestc]
      #6011836 - 08/07/13 04:46 PM

Excellent choice! The modified 60D will beat a 60Da anyday (or night rather) http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2805

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