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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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dag55
sage
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Reged: 04/13/11

Loc: Hamburg, IL. U.S.
Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings?
      #6019432 - 08/11/13 06:02 PM

I have located Ebony Star by Wilsonart but the price is over $100 time I can get it shipped plus I don't need that large a piece. I also could get a much smaller piece of Stardust by Formica at $43 at Lowes. My question is according to Kriege's book either is acceptable, but it seems that everybody is looking for Ebony Star, is the Formica Stardust as good or have they changed the production method since the book was published and it isn't good for use as bearings on our Dob. projects anymore. Thanks for any help on this , I hate to order only to find out it isn't functional for my 17.5" Dob. project.
Dane


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LateViewer
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 11/17/05

Loc: Manhattan
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6019490 - 08/11/13 06:42 PM

I am not familiar with the Formica Stardust product so I cannot really say.

I was just reading in Albert Highe's book, Portable Newtonian Telescopes, about the properties of Wilson Arts laminates 4552-350-50 , 4552-350-90 and Glasteel FRP

In a somewhat detailed analysis of the three products, I will not present his data here, he concludes that any of the three would be suitable for telescope building.


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Pinbout
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6019512 - 08/11/13 06:59 PM

I use formica type 42. It doesn't matter what color.

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dag55
sage
*****

Reged: 04/13/11

Loc: Hamburg, IL. U.S.
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: Pinbout]
      #6019589 - 08/11/13 07:44 PM

Thanks, I just wanted to verify before I ordered from Lowes.
Dane


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dave brock
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/06/08

Loc: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6020179 - 08/12/13 03:29 AM

The Stardust Kriege refers to is quarry finish. In NZ quarry is no longer available. It is now velour finish which in my view is not as good. I also don't like WilsonArt 90 finish for bearings. The WilsonArt HD AEON range looks ok. I've tested it with Teflon and it compares with Ebony Star but I haven't actually used it. USA might be different of course.

Dave


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dag55
sage
*****

Reged: 04/13/11

Loc: Hamburg, IL. U.S.
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dave brock]
      #6025493 - 08/14/13 04:38 PM

Thanks again gentleman, I am glad that I was informed that Stardust isn't the same quarry finish anymore. Ebony Star#4552 that is in Dave's book is that still the same as what he recommends or has that changed as well?
Thanks again Dane


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dave brock
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/06/08

Loc: Hamilton, New Zealand
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6028670 - 08/16/13 08:01 AM

The #4552 refers to the pattern but the important number is what follows. You want #4552-50. 50 refers to the finish texture which is pebbly. What you don't want is 60, 90 or 07 finish.

Dave


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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dave brock]
      #6028695 - 08/16/13 08:29 AM

I just received my lazy susan bearing in the mail....hope to install it this weekend. This should make the scope really smooth. The bearing is $9 with another $9 shipping charge and less then a dollar for the extra washers and bits. Insructions for converting your XTi into a roller bearing base are at: http://www.orion-xt10.com/home.html

There are lots of nice stuff here on modding the Xti.


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dag55
sage
*****

Reged: 04/13/11

Loc: Hamburg, IL. U.S.
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: csrlice12]
      #6029477 - 08/16/13 04:09 PM

Thanks Dave, I have looked at Arborite DI diamond texture as an alternative. I seen a post were someone thought it most closely matched the touchtone series that Wilsonart used to make ex. 4552-50, has anyone first hand experience with this as bearing material? I also ordered some samples of the Wilsonart HD AEON laminates, of the granite-marble and the particulates type. Has anyone used this for their bearings let?
Dane


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michaeldurban
member


Reged: 03/06/12

Loc: Durban, South Africa
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6162260 - 10/28/13 11:03 AM

just a heads up..

I wrote my experience down in a CN article "The Telescope Mambo" (submitted last week)

I couldn't find ebony star so i used nor textured formica.
I did use teflon spray but, it didn't seem to matter that much.

My wife (wise as she is..) gave me some cheap floor polish.
I used it today, applied a normal coat around the ring and let it dry.
Then I polished the excess with a simple kitchen towel.

The result..although not buttery smooth, there is absolutely no stiction, no bumping...

thought i'd let you guys know...

hope this helps..

michael


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tbuzzi1
member
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Reged: 01/14/09

Loc: Rockport,Tx
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6280277 - 12/30/13 12:12 AM

Used to work in a laminate countertop shop and the last time I checked, in 2010, the ebony star was no longer textured. It was plain flat and not suitable for bearings. So be careful before ordering ebony star, ask if it is textured or smooth.

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tbuzzi1
member
*****

Reged: 01/14/09

Loc: Rockport,Tx
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6288841 - 01/03/14 12:53 AM

Where did you find the Ebony Star material?? They make some of it absolutely flat with no texture at all. I am trying some of the FRP board from Lowes right now.

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dag55
sage
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Reged: 04/13/11

Loc: Hamburg, IL. U.S.
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: tbuzzi1]
      #6289865 - 01/03/14 03:03 PM


#6074122 - 09/10/13 11:10 PM Attachment (31 downloads)
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I previously posted some results on some laminates that I had tested. I received some good advice from Ed on a laminate by Formice , Black Crystal. I went to Lowes and got some samples of the Crystal finish and a sample of the Sparkle finish as well as a sample of Wilsonart 1595-60 Black. Here are the results of the test. I used a trigger scale to measure the release weight and it is capable from 8 oz. and up. Here are the results.
First I will list the release weight prior to waxing the samples with Turtle wax and follow it with the weight after wax.

Wilsonart 1595-60 Black, 1 lb. 4 oz. After wax 15 oz. to 1lb. 2 oz.

Formica Sparkle collection #7733-42 Ubatuba Granite green one, 12 oz. after wax 10 oz. to 11 oz.

Formica Crystal Finish 7263-42 Indigo Terra blue one, 12 oz. to 13 oz. after wax 10 oz. to 11 oz.

Formica's other two samples 7734-42 Jamocha Granite brown one and 909-42 Black both crystal series. both released at 12 oz. to 13 oz. and after wax at 10 oz.

Formicas sample all performed well and released and pulled without jumping effect. The Wilsonart sample though did release with a jumping effect. After comparing this test with my previous one the best choice is the Formica crystal finish products due to a much cheaper cost as Lowes sells both full sheets and partial sheets plus the Arborite I tested earier with the shipping cost would have drove the price up the Wilsonart AEON HD premium series at about $170 ouch. I included a couple pics. to show the setup for the test and copied the previous post and added it below for reference. I hope the info. is helpful to someone.
Dane


I recently asked for help on laminates for my Dob. project and received some very helpful advice on current and past laminates that work well. I originally was going to use Ebony Star 4550-50 or Stardust quarry finish by Formica but they no longer produce them and was given some other tips on good possibilities. The Wilsonart company does now produce a series called AEON HD in which I got a few samples along with their 4552K-07 Ebony Star. I also got a sample of a laminate by Arborite Diamond finish to test as it was also one of the recommendations I found.
First I tested all the samples repeatedly to get a good average of their usefulness. I set a 11 lb. counter weight on a Teflon bearing I am going to use from Astro Systems for the control, then I employed my trigger scale to determine the amount required for the sled I made to release. The trigger scale will measure accurately from 8 oz. and up. Here are the results first with just the laminates mentioned then I used turtle wax on them and retested them again.
AEON HD series laminates by Wilsonart, #1819 Bella Venito, 1822 Bella Capri, and 1847 Bronze Eclipse They all released at 12-14 oz. and pulled without jumping affect.

The 4552-07 Wilsonart Ebony Star sample released at 14-16oz. range with minimal jump upon release.

Then I tested the Arborite diamond finish sample S-405 DI, it released at 12-14OZ. and didn't jump upon release.

I retested the AEON HD series and Arborite laminates after waxing them with Turtle wax and polishing it off after it dried.
The AEON samples released at 10 OZ and just barely moved the trigger scale to 12 oz.a few times with no jump upon release.
The 4552-07 Ebony Star sample that is now produced released at just 12-14 oz. with less jump than previous test.

The Arborite sample released at a consistent 10 oz. with no jump.

These test concur what I have read about the newer laminates and the affect of using a paste wax on them to enhance their performance. I will be ordering the Arborite laminate for two reasons. First after waxing the samples it was most constant with less force applied for release from stationary position and it is less expensive.

I hope this review helps someone here as I have gotten some very helpful advice here myself and would like to contribute.
Thanks everybody Dane

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opticsguy
sage


Reged: 02/02/09

Loc: Washington State
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: dag55]
      #6291432 - 01/04/14 10:17 AM

What about just using a normal smooth formica and adjust the teflon pad size? Isn't it really about contact area?

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tbuzzi1
member
*****

Reged: 01/14/09

Loc: Rockport,Tx
Re: Ebony Star or Stardust laminate for bearings? new [Re: opticsguy]
      #6297936 - 01/07/14 12:04 PM

Read someplace that if you weigh the scope setup which is above the teflon pad placement area and divide by 12 to give you the pound/units of your set up, one square inch of bearing surface of teflon should be used for each pound/unit for the right "sticksion" feel.

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