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Laminarman
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NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO
      #6021678 - 08/12/13 09:18 PM

My new Advanced VX came today, so psyched. I read the manual ahead of time, got all set up. My FIRST EQ mount. Plugged in the AC adapter. No power. Quadruple checked all cables, connections..etc. No go. Took the cover off the power board, all connections look fine, everything's tight, looked at the power plug internally, getting voltage from the adapter (12v) and at the plug. No go. So freaking bummed out. Actually *BLEEP* is more like it. Power switch on and off and on and off...no go. Calling either Celestron or Optcorp in the AM to see what the next step is. I will keep you posted.

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frito
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6021749 - 08/12/13 09:46 PM

sounds like you got a lemon I've seen a number of posts sense the AVX came out that turned out to be bad mounts, most of them worked at first then crapped out but I think your the first one that i've seen that got a DOA mount. I'm sure OPT will fix you up ASAP, if not Celestron will but as you are within the return time peroid OPT will probably want to take care of it for you so you don't have to deal with Celestron direct.

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schluterdude
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: frito]
      #6021923 - 08/12/13 11:27 PM

Bummer man :-(. Is voltage getting past the switch?

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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: schluterdude]
      #6021972 - 08/12/13 11:58 PM

Quote:

Bummer man :-(. Is voltage getting past the switch?




That's a good question - especially if it uses the same switch as the CG5-GT. I've seen several of those that stopped making properly (including one of mine).


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frito
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6021985 - 08/13/13 12:07 AM

I thought the new switch was supposed to be one of the best updates to the AVX. considering its brand new and DOA probably best not to dig too deep trying to fix it, could void the warranty and cause problems even though it may be a simple fix as a switch.

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #6022251 - 08/13/13 05:44 AM

Quote:



That's a good question - especially if it uses the same switch as the CG5-GT.




It doesn't.


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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6022302 - 08/13/13 06:54 AM

I'm only mildly adept at electronics troubleshooting. I don't have confidence in the plug/power port connection. Seems rather loose. But I can get 12 volts at the backside of the powerport internally so I assume it's getting juice at least to that point. There is nothing exposed enough for me to get my multimeter probes onto past that. The power port has two wires and a plug which goes onto the board, the the male end of the pins accepting that plug are soldered to the board, and testing those with power on shows only .01 volts, so I'm not confident I'm getting power to the board. Hope I didn't confuse anyone. My fear is they start throwing parts one by one at it when in reality I want a new board/powerport and switch and to get up and running ASAP. Ideally, they overnight a new EQ mount and I send this one back, less tripod.

Edited by Laminarman (08/13/13 06:56 AM)


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Cliff Hipsher
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6022405 - 08/13/13 08:33 AM

Pictures would help, but then again this is a new mount that is DOA. Time to get Celestron or the vendor on the phone and negotiate a replacement, and I would ask for free shipping BOTH ways.

Sadly, I'm looking at a mount upgrade in a few months and I had high hopes for the AVX. If they can't maintain quality standards on simple things like this, how can one trust the finished product?


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RTLR 12
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6022424 - 08/13/13 08:42 AM

Cliff,

Are you really going to base your purchase on this one instance?

Stan


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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6022425 - 08/13/13 08:42 AM

Quote:

Pictures would help, but then again this is a new mount that is DOA. Time to get Celestron or the vendor on the phone and negotiate a replacement, and I would ask for free shipping BOTH ways.

Sadly, I'm looking at a mount upgrade in a few months and I had high hopes for the AVX. If they can't maintain quality standards on simple things like this, how can one trust the finished product?




I wouldn't condemn the mount based on this.

OP:

I wouldn't go much farther. Call the folks who sold it to you (not Celestron) and arrange for a swap-out.

I would try a different power source, the DC cable and a 12-volt battery or your car, and maybe spread the pin-halves of the mount side connector a bit (gently, with a small knife), even though you've seen voltage on the other side.

Does the pilot light, light? Be aware that unlike the CG5, this mount takes a little longer to boot. At least 5-seconds.

Edited by rmollise (08/13/13 08:43 AM)


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6022546 - 08/13/13 09:57 AM





I wouldn't condemn the mount based on this.

OP:

I wouldn't go much farther. Call the folks who sold it to you (not Celestron) and arrange for a swap-out.

I would try a different power source, the DC cable and a 12-volt battery or your car, and maybe spread the pin-halves of the mount side connector a bit (gently, with a small knife), even though you've seen voltage on the other side.

Does the pilot light, light? Be aware that unlike the CG5, this mount takes a little longer to boot. At least 5-seconds.




Ide agree with Rod`s excellent advise here..


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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6022588 - 08/13/13 10:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Pictures would help, but then again this is a new mount that is DOA. Time to get Celestron or the vendor on the phone and negotiate a replacement, and I would ask for free shipping BOTH ways.

Sadly, I'm looking at a mount upgrade in a few months and I had high hopes for the AVX. If they can't maintain quality standards on simple things like this, how can one trust the finished product?




I wouldn't condemn the mount based on this.

OP:

I wouldn't go much farther. Call the folks who sold it to you (not Celestron) and arrange for a swap-out.

I would try a different power source, the DC cable and a 12-volt battery or your car, and maybe spread the pin-halves of the mount side connector a bit (gently, with a small knife), even though you've seen voltage on the other side.

Does the pilot light, light? Be aware that unlike the CG5, this mount takes a little longer to boot. At least 5-seconds.




I spread the pins ever so slightly and no, the light does not light. I wouldn't condemn my purchase, I think it's a fine made and sturdy, manageable piece. I hope they make it right. I'm sure you can understand...a new piece of equipment that doesn't work and on top of that...clouds. I love new toys and I didn't get to play.


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6022615 - 08/13/13 10:45 AM

Did you contact the place you bought it from ?

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6022647 - 08/13/13 11:05 AM

And did you try an alternate power source?

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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6022680 - 08/13/13 11:26 AM

On the phone now with OPT. And yes, battery power didn't work either.

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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6022686 - 08/13/13 11:29 AM

Your in good hands, those guys take good care of their customers.

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schluterdude
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6022694 - 08/13/13 11:32 AM

If the power light isn't coming on, without knowing how its wired (haven't taken mine apart) I'd suspect the switch is kaputt. Although, if the LED is run from the board, then it's a board. Or possibly a bad wire.

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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: schluterdude]
      #6022786 - 08/13/13 12:23 PM

OK, here's where we are: guys at OPT did a walk through of what I should do to trouble shoot the mount, all of which I did and failed to fix the problem. So as soon as I ship out the head and hand controller and give them a tracking number, they'll ship me out a new one. Will keep you all posted.

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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6022863 - 08/13/13 12:58 PM

Thats Great! news..

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faltered
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6023001 - 08/13/13 01:48 PM

yes, dont condemn the AVX cause of this - i would absolutely go with it again. OPT is awesome and they will make it right. Call it back luck and I am sure the replacement will be just fine.

The AVX has really been getting some positive feedback from users.

Its a good mount.


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Cliff Hipsher
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #6023041 - 08/13/13 02:06 PM

Quote:

Cliff,

Are you really going to base your purchase on this one instance?

Stan




Not entirely. However, it is easier for me to accept someone missing an obscure "bug" in code than it is for me to accept missing something as basic is the thing won't power up....


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bilgebayModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Cliff Hipsher]
      #6023076 - 08/13/13 02:19 PM

There should be a fuse inside the plug, have you checked that ?

I was told by Celestron's Lance, who is in charge of the mounts, that most of the AVX failures were caused by low or wrong voltage. I have been using mine for the last 4 months without a glitch. Gotos are incredible dead on. I love this mount!

Edited by bilgebay (08/13/13 02:21 PM)


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Ultron
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6023195 - 08/13/13 03:07 PM

Are you reading 12V at the back of the power plug with power on? If it drops when you turn on power, it could be a bad supply. I'd try a different supply. Also, did you say the power plug has wires and has a connector on the end that plugs into the power board? If so, unplug the connector, if its a female connector on the cable, poke some metal paper clips in there (make sure no power connected when you set this up, and keep them away from each other) and put your test leads on the paper clips. If you get 12V once you plug it in, that would tell you the cable and plug is ok.

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cn register 5
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Ultron]
      #6023264 - 08/13/13 03:36 PM

I'm not sure why people post this sort of thing here, even before contacting the supplier. We can't make it work, the suppler has a responsibility to do so.

Chris.


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6023404 - 08/13/13 04:31 PM

Because someone else may experienced the same issue and had a simple/immediate remedy.

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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6023426 - 08/13/13 04:41 PM

12v with the power on. Not taking it further than that simply because it's new and they're replacing it. Were it a year old and out of warranty, then I'd really start looking into it but there's no reason to do that with something that should simply power up brand new.

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Ultron
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6023557 - 08/13/13 05:34 PM

Glad you are able to swap it out. Missed the post about you contacting OPT. Hopefully the next one works out.

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Laminarman
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Ultron]
      #6025526 - 08/14/13 04:47 PM

Update: Vinnie at OPTCorp sent out a new Advanced VX head as soon as I gave him a tracking number for the returned defective unit. Will keep you posted.

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6026566 - 08/15/13 06:48 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure why people post this sort of thing here, even before contacting the supplier. We can't make it work, the suppler has a responsibility to do so.

Chris.




In my opinion, the OP's experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be posted here.

A defect which occurs after a mount has been in use for some time is one thing; an out-of-box failure is quite another. The latter strongly suggests that the mount left the factory in non-working condition, which does not speak well for the level of quality control surrounding it. Speaking out about unpleasant experiences such as this is of great benefit to the amateur community, and should be encouraged... after all, does anyone think that the manufacturers are going to tell us how many returns they're faced with on a given piece of equipment?

Fred


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MartinTreadgold
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026600 - 08/15/13 07:36 AM

To the defence of Celestron here, we tend to hear about when things go wrong, rather than when things go right. I have an AVX and it works brilliantly so far.

Electronic hardware manufacturers do their best to make perfect products, but in reality it doesn't always work like that. This is why there is a warranty scheme and a returns process in place.

I work for a big named camera manufacturer, I specifically deal with repair management.

No manufacturer in their right mind will ever publish their defect ratios, unless they are legally obliged to if say the return amount reaches over 5% of all product sales, i.e. a recall of the product.

However, forums like this one are useful to the manufacturer, if when things go wrong, the person complaining about a situation, constructively does so with evidence, photo's, measurements, full description of the problem. It is really helpful.

But too often, people just complain in a non-constructive way, which can put people off from buying the product.

To put things into perspective, celestron don't have a major issue, yes, there maybe some unlucky people out there who have a fault, it is something to expect. But the total amount of returns is probably less than 1%.

The AVX is a fantastic product, and Celestron are a nice bunch of people to know, I have met some of their guys at the Photokina trade fair in Cologne last year in september, they were very helpful, and I got to chat about new products, including the AVX at the time.

I have full confidence that if my AVX breaks, they will get it repaired.

Best Regards

Martin


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: MartinTreadgold]
      #6026719 - 08/15/13 09:16 AM

I was unaware that Celestron was in need of defense, as my stated concerns were hardly an attack upon them; however, it appears that their inspection procedures regarding this mount might possibly need to be looked at.

I seriously doubt that the mount in question stopped working between the time it left the factory and the time the OP plugged it in; hence, it likely left the factory in that condition. This calls into question the level of quality control involved, as one would assume that a final test of each mount would be performed to assure its viability. Warranties are all well and good, but their use in the absence of strict measures to assure that customers receive working units rings rather hollow.

Fondness for Celestron and their products is also all well and good, but a failure such as this must be looked at for what it is: a failure.

Fred


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Cliff Hipsher
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026850 - 08/15/13 10:29 AM

I agree with Fred. What would tend prevent this sort of thing from happening is the inclusion of a final QA inspection sheet with someones signature and printed name on it.

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6026906 - 08/15/13 10:57 AM

Quote:




In my opinion, the OP's experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be posted here.

A defect which occurs after a mount has been in use for some time is one thing; an out-of-box failure is quite another. The latter strongly suggests that the mount left the factory in non-working condition, which does not speak well for the level of quality control surrounding it. Speaking out about unpleasant experiences such as this is of great benefit to the amateur community, and should be encouraged... after all, does anyone think that the manufacturers are going to tell us how many returns they're faced with on a given piece of equipment?

Fred




Some telescope companies may test every single mount, but not ones I could pay for.

Frankly, not every single widget is tested by QA in any mass production setting.

I think it's fine to post things like this here. Especially if there is a chance of helping the poster. However, one dead mount (if that was indeed the case) is no reason to run screaming into the night.

Maybe most important is the seller's and the manufacturer's response. That's what I look for. I know the level I buy at; it is not the caviar level. Every single Meade and Celestron amateur level scope I have bought over the last 20 years has had problems major and minor. Every single one of them was fixed, however, and in the end I feel that I came out ahead of the game. If I can't buy AP or Tak, that's what I know I face. And it has been OK.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6026970 - 08/15/13 11:36 AM

I disagree; the cost of a simple final inspection to at least assure that the mount powers on would not be the least bit prohibitive. Any low-level QC employee could be tasked with it, and it would add little to the final price. Conversely, enough out-of-box failures could easily lead to a loss of market share which would make the pittance spent on final inspection pale in comparison.


Oh, and I haven't seen anyone "run screaming into the night" on this thread; at least not yet. We'll see what happens when the fanboys show up...

Fred


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6027043 - 08/15/13 12:11 PM

I`m willing to bet the replacement takes care of the problem..

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027136 - 08/15/13 01:00 PM

Quote:

I disagree; the cost of a simple final inspection to at least assure that the mount powers on would not be the least bit prohibitive. Any low-level QC employee could be tasked with it, and it would add little to the final price. Conversely, enough out-of-box failures could easily lead to a loss of market share which would make the pittance spent on final inspection pale in comparison.


Oh, and I haven't seen anyone "run screaming into the night" on this thread; at least not yet. We'll see what happens when the fanboys show up...

Fred




You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.


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Cliff Hipsher
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6027159 - 08/15/13 01:15 PM

Quote:



You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.




Rod makes a very valid point. 1 for 1 QA eats up the bottom line, and in times like these, every penny counts, ON BOTH SIDES.... As long as the vendor makes it right at no cost to the customer, then we're good..


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DaveJ
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6027167 - 08/15/13 01:20 PM

Quote:

You may disagree, but that's not how anybody I know of runs a QA program. It would not be economically feasible. The goal of QA is to sample a certain number of units coming off the line, thus reducing the number of DOAs. At some point you hit just the proper balance of cost vice defective units. That point is not "test every unit." Not in a mass production setting.




You are absolutely correct. I recall a problem in a statistical analysis college class years ago where a company wanted to know how many flash bulbs would have to be randomly selected and tested to guarantee that no more than 0.5% would fail in the hands of consumers. Obviously, flash bulbs (one-time use then discard for those kiddies out there that grew up with electron flashes) could NOT each be tested.


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Jarrod
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: DaveJ]
      #6027239 - 08/15/13 01:52 PM

Bottom line is that it's cheaper for Celestron to replace the odd defective mount than it is to pay someone to power up every unit all day every day just to find the the 1/1000 that have an issue. For the most part, they are just wasting their time verifying that 99.9% of them work. It's simple economics, and it's what we want them to do. Otherwise the mount would cost significantly more. Just imagine the effort that would be required to test every component that could have an issue on every mount before it leaves the factory.

I concede that it doesn't feel like a very clever strategy when you are the one that ends up with that one lemon, but if you look at the bigger picture I think it makes sense.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: DaveJ]
      #6027292 - 08/15/13 02:17 PM

I ran the Quality Control department (NOT Quality Assurance - that's just the "lite" version of the real thing) at a major electronics manufacturing company for many years; I can assure you that the Final Test department was kept quite busy checking each and every finished unit for basic function before it left the factory, which added only a very few minutes labor to the job ticket per item, but which paid huge dividends; defects were caught before the unit was sent to the customer, who would be understandably unhappy that their brand-new equipment had arrived DOA. I saw to this final inspection both personally and by means of the inspectors under me, and with the full blessing of both the board of directors and the accountants. These were not terribly expensive units, either; the point was that the customer was paying for a working unit, and it was our obligation to see that they got one, warranty notwithstanding; this is still the standing policy at this very successful firm.

Folks, please do not attempt to tell me that it would prove too costly to briefly inspect every single unit for power-up and basic function; I worked in this field for most of my life, and am well aware of the cost/benefit ratios involved. Of course, if a company desires to cut corners and dispense with a final inspection of their product, and in effect let their customers do it for them, that is their business... however, I would refuse to carry water for them, and neither would I purchase their products, as they would have demonstrated to me that they are scornfully disrespectful of my right to have my purchase be functional as and when received.

There was a time when it was highly unusual to purchase any astronomical equipment that was non-functional as received; the fact that the complexity of the articles has increased has no bearing on the fact that a new unit should work straightaway, and attempts to justify situations such as the OP has presented, on whatever basis, carry no weight with me whatsoever.

Fred


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Jarrod
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027319 - 08/15/13 02:35 PM

Fred - what you describe is simply a different philosophy. None of what you said invalidated my statements. I assume that you and the Final Test staff at your firm did not work for free. Therefore, it added cost to the product.

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nodalpoint
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Jarrod]
      #6027371 - 08/15/13 02:51 PM

Who cares? I ordered an AVX today!

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Jarrod]
      #6027374 - 08/15/13 02:53 PM

Yes, but the final test cost was hardly a significant sum. Mind you, there was ongoing inspection at all phases of production, but the final test was the least costly of all of them, as it could be done rapidly and hence inexpensively; it also held the greatest cost/benefit ratio.

Final inspection of a telescope mount should take far less than a minute if set up correctly, with experienced personnel... to what degree would that increase the cost to the consumer? A dollar or less?

Many companies are afflicted with bean-counters whose existence is predicated upon saving small sums at the cost of quality... it saves a few pennies to shift quality control onto the customer, but the bad taste that some will surely get from such folly can linger for a long time.

A different philosophy, indeed.

Fred



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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO *DELETED* new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027562 - 08/15/13 04:22 PM

Post deleted by rmollise

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rmollise
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6027575 - 08/15/13 04:27 PM

Quote:



Folks, please do not attempt to tell me that it would prove too costly to briefly inspect every single unit for power-up and basic function; I worked in this field for most of my life...




We are just telling you the way it is in manufacturing. Usually, this is quite effective. The QA guys start seeing problems in the samples, and the problem is corrected for all the products coming out. For most products, detailed QA of every item is simply not necessary. If you are building expensive and at least partially handcrafted items like jet engines or thermonuclear weapons, you test every item rigorously because of the possibility for human screwups and the possible (extremely) disastrous results that could result. A sub 1K telescope mount? Not so much.

The problems come when QA is sloppy about what it is supposed to sample/test.

If you want more, there is a solution, which is Astro-Physics, Takahashi, and Bisque. These are small boutique manufacturers, and their volume and economic model allows them to test everything. Nevertheless, people still can have problems with even these mounts. Alas, that is the way the Universe works.




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cn register 5
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027659 - 08/15/13 05:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not sure why people post this sort of thing here, even before contacting the supplier. We can't make it work, the suppler has a responsibility to do so.

Chris.




In my opinion, the OP's experience is exactly the sort of thing that should be posted here.

A defect which occurs after a mount has been in use for some time is one thing; an out-of-box failure is quite another. The latter strongly suggests that the mount left the factory in non-working condition, which does not speak well for the level of quality control surrounding it. Speaking out about unpleasant experiences such as this is of great benefit to the amateur community, and should be encouraged... after all, does anyone think that the manufacturers are going to tell us how many returns they're faced with on a given piece of equipment?

Fred



The thing that concerns me is not that the OP posted about a faulty mount but that he posted about it here BEFORE contacting the dealer or manufacturer. They were given no chance of resolving the problem. This seems unfair to me.

Chris


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Stew57
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6027666 - 08/15/13 05:15 PM

Outliers happen. Defects happen. It is being taken care of. If it is a one off no big deal. If it gets reported regularly than it looks like a trend (remember the early CGEM hand controllers failing?) which means it would need to be reported. I can't see many being turned off by a one off problem.

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6027675 - 08/15/13 05:18 PM

No need to tell me anything about manufacturing, thank you kindly; been there, done that, got the pictures back. My contention is that failing to give even a cursory test to every unit leaving a manufacturing facility (if indeed that is the case in this instance, as it's entirely possible that such inspection was performed, and, although I think it unlikely, that the failure of the OP's mount then occurred in transit) can lead to customer-relations problems. One does not need to be a high-end manufacturer to do this; one merely needs the resolve to take a tiny financial hit to ensure that each and every customer receives a working product.

I don't believe that is too much to ask, but apparently others here see it differently. While I respect these opinions, I will continue to disagree with them. Carry on.

Fred


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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027699 - 08/15/13 05:32 PM

Quote:

No need to tell me anything about manufacturing, thank you kindly; been there, done that.




Then, you know this is the way the world works. I agree with you that the ideal would be a power-up of every TV, blender, and telescope mount on the line. But that is, alas, just not going to happen.


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Starhawk
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6027708 - 08/15/13 05:37 PM

I already know where the end of this train of thought is- the AP Mach 1 GTO is built, tested, and calibrated by one person who puts the initial PEC program in place. No Mach 1 GTOs fail to run when they show up. Note the price delta to an AVX.

With that said, I'd be really interested in getting any duds back ASAP to find out what was the issue and see about a fix- usually it's a short list and then the product appears bulletproof.

-Rich


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rockstarbill
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rmollise]
      #6028470 - 08/16/13 02:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Folks, please do not attempt to tell me that it would prove too costly to briefly inspect every single unit for power-up and basic function; I worked in this field for most of my life...




We are just telling you the way it is in manufacturing. Usually, this is quite effective. The QA guys start seeing problems in the samples, and the problem is corrected for all the products coming out. For most products, detailed QA of every item is simply not necessary. If you are building expensive and at least partially handcrafted items like jet engines or thermonuclear weapons, you test every item rigorously because of the possibility for human screwups and the possible (extremely) disastrous results that could result. A sub 1K telescope mount? Not so much.

The problems come when QA is sloppy about what it is supposed to sample/test.

If you want more, there is a solution, which is Astro-Physics, Takahashi, and Bisque. These are small boutique manufacturers, and their volume and economic model allows them to test everything. Nevertheless, people still can have problems with even these mounts. Alas, that is the way the Universe works.







I am going to chime in and agree with Uncle Rod on this topic. It is basic accounting that dictates that businesses plan appropriately for a percentage of bad product. It is just silly to assume that every product that comes off of the line is perfect, and I can assure you that a company like Celestron plans and manages these errors through a model that supports the appropriate responses to these errors (example: Strong warranties, clear and consistent response, and root cause investigation when something slips through the cracks, etc...) QA is an effective tool to limit external (read: customer reported) failures, but it by no means 100% effective.

If you want to buy products that have a 0% external failure rate - be prepared to pay out your behind for them. They are not effective for mass production, have much higher direct labor costs, along with much much higher manufacturing overhead costs. Someone has to pay for that, and it certainly does not come out of the bottom line.

Quote:


With that said, I'd be really interested in getting any duds back ASAP to find out what was the issue and see about a fix- usually it's a short list and then the product appears bulletproof.

-Rich




Again, external failures can either be discarded as a one off (or "no repro" for you dev minded folks) or used as a test case going forward once the flaw in the design, code, etc. are rectified. To assume the root cause can be found in this case is a presumption that we should not make, nor should people shy way from the AVX as a result of this issue. Anyone that would do so, should buy a bus pass and never purchase a car - as those are far more prone to external failures than any of these goods we are talking about will ever be.

-Bill

Edited by rockstarbill (08/16/13 02:48 AM)


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MartinTreadgold
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6028631 - 08/16/13 07:10 AM

There are and always will be costs associated with quality testing every product. The costs of which will drive the price of the product up considerably. Thats why, to keep the cost to the customer as low as possible, it is more feasible to sample test a percentage of the number of units made, not test every single product made. Testing every product is costly and in most cases impractical. Celestron Do Carry out Quality Checking, no doubt about that. But Quality Checking every product does not 100% prevent dead on Arrival products from happening.

Lets remember the AVX is the new entry level GEM at a very affordable price. Very good product. Celestron have really pushed new boundaries with the AVX and raised the game.

Really sorry to hear that one showed up DOA, but C'est la vie.. etc just a bit unlucky.

That does not however mean all AVX's have a problem.

Let us know how you get on with your replacement mount.

Regards

Martin


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telfish
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: MartinTreadgold]
      #6028708 - 08/16/13 08:34 AM

I seem to remember Meade shipping mounts that were badly tested/not fully developed.

And look where they are!

There is also a cost to shipping unsatisfactory product, both in dollars and reputation.


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Seanem44
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: telfish]
      #6028768 - 08/16/13 09:21 AM

In terms of dollars, its a lot cheaper for Celestron, or any company, to deal with less QC than to hire full time QC. We save in the end, as there are less on the payroll. Sadly, every now and then, one person has to take one for the team with a random one off. I've dealt with this in my other hobby, British model railroading. And it's a pain when something fails and you are over seas, but the dealer is ALWAYS willing to exchange and deal with the vendor. In the OPs case, it looks like Optcorp took care of him.

So yeah, faulty equipment sucks, but one out of 100, or a 1000, or whatever is not enough to indict an entire company or there QC process with.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: telfish]
      #6029251 - 08/16/13 01:59 PM

Quote:

I seem to remember Meade shipping mounts that were badly tested/not fully developed.

And look where they are!

There is also a cost to shipping unsatisfactory product, both in dollars and reputation.




Exactly.

I have no idea of the QC/TQM/QMF background of those replying here, but based on my experience I will continue to disagree with the notion that brief final inspections conducted by any company prior to shipment would substantially raise the end cost to the customer. Additionally, the idea that a customer should be willing to receive a defective unit in order to save other customers a little money is, quite frankly, abhorrent to me.

This has been an excellent discussion; it makes abundantly clear just how little some of us have in common...

Fred


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Stew57
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029275 - 08/16/13 02:16 PM

I worked for a tool company in Owattona MN years ago. There were some electrical tools in which every one was plugged in to make sure it would turn on. It was done by the person packaging the device. Probably took all of 5 seconds or so as the came off the line. I was not in the department but I did do maintaince on the line. I have no idea if they still do that as it was in the lat 70's.

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Stew57]
      #6029281 - 08/16/13 02:20 PM

Thanks for the example, Mark; in essence, that's all I'm saying should be done: plug the product in briefly just prior to shipment, and see if it powers up! I honestly can't see how anyone could disagree with such a common-sense precaution.

Fred


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nodalpoint
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029409 - 08/16/13 03:28 PM

Maybe it was plugged in, maybe it worked, maybe during shipping some connection that was already marginal came loose...

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Seanem44
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029412 - 08/16/13 03:29 PM

The other factor affecting QC is that made in China stamp.

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bretm
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6029544 - 08/16/13 04:54 PM

I have a different take on this. Maybe you all have different USPS/UPS/Fedex workers where you live, but boxes arrive at my house with obvious signs of trama. Even if Celestron made certain that 100% of the mounts worked perfectly when they left the factory, the 10,000+ miles that it travels to get from there to my doorstep provide ample opportunity for issues to arise. And yes, they could package it well enough to survive anything, but then we are back to Rod's observation that most people couldn't afford them anymore...

Bret


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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029564 - 08/16/13 05:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I seem to remember Meade shipping mounts that were badly tested/not fully developed.

And look where they are!

There is also a cost to shipping unsatisfactory product, both in dollars and reputation.




Exactly.

I have no idea of the QC/TQM/QMF background of those replying here, but based on my experience I will continue to disagree with the notion that brief final inspections conducted by any company prior to shipment would substantially raise the end cost to the customer. Additionally, the idea that a customer should be willing to receive a defective unit in order to save other customers a little money is, quite frankly, abhorrent to me.

This has been an excellent discussion; it makes abundantly clear just how little some of us have in common...

Fred




Their background is of little importance in the discussion. The economies of scale you are talking about are. If you make 5 mounts a day, checking them all with a fine tooth comb is of no concern. If you make 500 mounts a day... that gets a little more tedious. As you scale this imaginary business you can see that the cost of doing this continues to rise and if you expect your prices to remain the same while doing so, the maximum amount of units you can produce with a positive margin will flat-line long before they would otherwise.

Regardless, I am sure they all go through a baseline of QA, which checks for basic things like the power working and other automated checks, with some level of human interaction in the end... Of course, I do not work there, so I cannot say for certain.

Also - who said they were willing to receive a defective unit. I sure hope you did not read that into what I said (or others for that matter) as that would just be silly.

Edited by rockstarbill (08/16/13 05:08 PM)


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Ron (Lubbock)
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rockstarbill]
      #6029608 - 08/16/13 05:31 PM

The same thing happened with my CGEM. No power straight out of the box. It was the stupid 25 cent fuse in the plug, as Bilgebay already mentioned. I didn't figure it out for 4 months, as it's non-obvious that there is a fuse in there. Good thing for the extra power cable I had laying around, or else I would have had no functioning mount the first week.

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Gil V
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Ron (Lubbock)]
      #6029744 - 08/16/13 07:00 PM

I'm not buying the argument that you shouldn't expect 100% quality. Now, that doesn't mean that bad units don't ship, but that in the event one does, the company will address the customer problem promptly and to the customer's complete satisfaction. (Have a complimentary eyepiece for your difficulty). As long as every customer doesn't have a problem, and the company records quality failures and works to eliminate them AS PART OF THEIR NORMAL BUSINESS OPERATIONS, it's all good. Continuous improvement, don't ya know!

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: rockstarbill]
      #6029810 - 08/16/13 07:58 PM

Quote:



Their background is of little importance in the discussion. The economies of scale you are talking about are. If you make 5 mounts a day, checking them all with a fine tooth comb is of no concern. If you make 500 mounts a day... that gets a little more tedious. As you scale this imaginary business you can see that the cost of doing this continues to rise and if you expect your prices to remain the same while doing so, the maximum amount of units you can produce with a positive margin will flat-line long before they would otherwise.




Example: Have a reliable hourly worker in the shipping room plugging in widgets, and seeing if they light up. If so, ship 'em, if not, back to rework. Takes a whole 30 seconds each. He could test nearly 1000 widgets per 8-hour day at that rate. What's the average hourly wage in China these days? Whatever it is, it will add little to the cost to have this worker perform a cursory test of every single widget prior to shipment. I simply don't believe that it would add a prohibitive markup to the widget; in fact, I know it wouldn't.

Also, please note that this is in regards to minimizing out-of-the-box failures, not those that occur an indeterminate time thereafter, for whatever reason.

Quote:

Regardless, I am sure they all go through a baseline of QA, which checks for basic things like the power working and other automated checks, with some level of human interaction in the end... Of course, I do not work there, so I cannot say for certain.




Neither can I... it might very well be that a final test of the sort I've described does indeed occur during production, and I'd be somewhat surprised if it doesn't. At this point the discussion is purely hypothetical. As several posters pointed out, all this discussion could be over a bad fuse or a dropped package... nonetheless, this is a discussion forum, and discuss it (in a friendly manner, of course!) we will!


Quote:

Also - who said they were willing to receive a defective unit. I sure hope you did not read that into what I said (or others for that matter) as that would just be silly.




Someone mentioned that out of all the customers, someone would have to "take one for the team", and have to deal with a defective unit out of the many produced. Since the purchase of this hypothetical unit is strictly voluntary, the implicit assumption is that, in order for the goods to remain tendered at a price acceptable to the collective, the individual must be willing to chance receiving a defective unit... a "reverse lottery" of sorts. Of course, unless one purchases only zero-defect products, they are by default enrolled in such a lottery; however, as far as out-of-the-box failures are concerned (the subject of this discussion), they can for the most part be alleviated by a simple final test - that's what the successful companies which I worked for specified, and it caught a lot of bad units.

Fred


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Seanem44
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029834 - 08/16/13 08:20 PM

I was that someone, and the whole take one for the team statement was obviously facetious. Faulty equipment, gear, etc sucks. But it's a fact of life in manufacturing. It happens in everything. Unless you are buying a luxury item, 100% inspection is not feasible or economical. That's why you get lemon vehicles. I've had to return more than one defective item. But the dealer has worked with me so I don't need to deal with the vendor.

Edited by Seanem44 (08/16/13 08:22 PM)


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6029845 - 08/16/13 08:30 PM

Facetious or not, it still had truth in it... fact is, if dealing with less than 100% QC, one is gambling as to whether a given item will function as intended when first activated.

Bottom line: final-testing 100% of relatively short-run items (less than 1000 units/day) for basic defects, e.g., failure to turn on, which would translate into an out-of-the-box failure for the customer, is easily performed and very cost-effective; I did it for a living, and without raising the cost more than a few cents per unit. I suspect that all major telescope manufacturers do so, as well.

Fred


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cn register 5
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6029852 - 08/16/13 08:34 PM

I'm going to be clearer. I think that shouting about this here before contacting the supplier is vendor and product bashing. It is intended to blacken the name of the producer while giving them no chance to do anything about it.

The honest thing to do would be to report the problem to the supplier and see how they resolve it, then, if there's a reason, post a message describing the problem and the resolution.

Chris


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Stew57
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6029874 - 08/16/13 08:47 PM

I agree totally with your tone. I do think reporting it even when the dealer handles it well is a good move. It gives us indication if there is a trend. It is also good to see dealers handle the inevitable well.

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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: cn register 5]
      #6029879 - 08/16/13 08:49 PM

Quote:

I'm going to be clearer. I think that shouting about this here before contacting the supplier is vendor and product bashing. It is intended to blacken the name of the producer while giving them no chance to do anything about it.

The honest thing to do would be to report the problem to the supplier and see how they resolve it, then, if there's a reason, post a message describing the problem and the resolution.

Chris




Who's shouting about anything here, Chris, or bashing the product or vendor?? The AVX mount is an excellent piece of gear and a great value, and no one has said otherwise... likewise regarding Celestron, who make many fine products. This appears to be a one-off failure. However, the discussion has turned into a general discussion of out-of-box failures and ways of preventing them, where there are divergent viewpoints being discussed. If that's not suitable, well then...

Fred

eta: I've notified a moderator, and asked them to look at this thread to determine whether or not there is "vendor bashing" ongoing here.

Edited by amicus sidera (08/16/13 08:57 PM)


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Dave MModerator
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6029950 - 08/16/13 09:42 PM

Guys!, please keep the discussion a friendly one.
I dont see any evidence of vendor bashing.


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amicus sidera
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6029973 - 08/16/13 09:55 PM

Thank you, Dave. In the interests of harmony I will make this my last post on this thread.

Best regards to all.

Fred


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SkipW
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #6030052 - 08/16/13 10:53 PM

Well, late to the party, as usual. Don't start composing a reply on an active thread then get called away for an hour or so before finishing.

Although Fred excused himself from this thread, I see his insights as both informed from experience and food for thought. I don't entirely agree with his conclusions (yet, anyway, as will probably be apparent from the questions and observations), but his experience in the topic of discussion - how to properly test a product before shipment - lends a lot to it. So, if I may, I would like to explore further since I think the points I bring up are pertinent in the real world. If some of my observations below seem hostile (or snarky), that's not the intent, it's just that with a finite, actually very short, amount of time to put into words what I want to know or would like to say, it's the best I can do.

Note: I've always been afraid that quoting someone, then throwing points back seems somewhat hostile. If accurately quoted, however, it reduces (not eliminates), I think, the chance of inadvertently misrepresenting what was originally said.

Quote:

...
Also, please note that this is in regards to minimizing out-of-the-box failures, not those that occur an indeterminate time thereafter, for whatever reason.
...
it might very well be that a final test of the sort I've described does indeed occur during production, and I'd be somewhat surprised if it doesn't. At this point the discussion is purely hypothetical. As several posters pointed out, all this discussion could be over a bad fuse or a dropped package... nonetheless, this is a discussion forum, and discuss it (in a friendly manner, of course!) we will!
...
Someone mentioned that out of all the customers, someone would have to "take one for the team", and have to deal with a defective unit out of the many produced. Since the purchase of this hypothetical unit is strictly voluntary, the implicit assumption is that, in order for the goods to remain tendered at a price acceptable to the collective, the individual must be willing to chance receiving a defective unit... a "reverse lottery" of sorts. Of course, unless one purchases only zero-defect products, they are by default enrolled in such a lottery; however, as far as out-of-the-box failures are concerned (the subject of this discussion), they can for the most part be alleviated by a simple final test - that's what the successful companies which I worked for specified, and it caught a lot of bad units.

Fred



Regarding the first statement: since you mention minimizing (not eliminating entirely) out-of-the-box failures, it suggests you recognize that as much as you test, they still happen. I don't see how the DOA experience here doesn't fit that model. Also, an indeterminate time after delivery could include zero (it powered up once, at the factory, but didn't the second time). Infant mortality and the bathtub curve are the reason things like warranties are essentially universal.

Second statement: See bathtub curve. The only way to eliminate early failures ("infant mortality") is to burn-in each individual item. Doing so puts us way out of the realm of "only a dollar per finished item". Even if you do this, you still have to contend with random failures.

Finally, there's simply no practical way to assure that a mass-produced item can be defect free all the time (not 99.9...% for as many nines as you want to buy - all), even ignoring (sometimes hidden) damage in shipment. You mention that your testing caught a lot of bad units in testing; I presume that there was an active campaign to find out why so many were failing and address the underlying causes. This alone is a good reason to test each and every unit - it's cheaper than dealing with a lot of returns. I also disagree that a final test is necessarily simple. Where do you draw the line? It powers up, but do both motors work? Do they slew to the correct commanded position within some spec? Do all the HB buttons work? Etc. Doing this requires more skilled labor (and/or non-trivial test equipment) to evaluate. Is "it powers up, ship it!" really much better than testing to be sure everything the customer is likely to use right away works?

I think this has been a great discussion! Fred is in the minority, but has experience in the field.

Since these are a direct challenge and questions to some statements, I think Fred can be forgiven if he decides to jump back in after retiring. If he declines in the spirit of harmony, that's OK with me, but, I think, a loss to the discussion. He's been firm, but civil. We all should be.


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Seanem44
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: SkipW]
      #6030602 - 08/17/13 10:04 AM

I look at it from an economics and business admin perspective, my two disciplines, and I agree with Skip. There is a difference between mass produced In China items, and high cost luxury items made elsewhere. For example, in the world of astronomy, take Takahashi items versus Celestron. I am willing to bet the failure rate of Tak products is vastly less than Celestron. Why? You get what you pay for. In this case, its akin to a Ferrari versus a Ford. A handcrafted luxury item. 100 percent inspection on all aspects of a mass produced item is impractical when the failure rate is minimal. Hence my lambasted take one for the team statement. If there is a pattern; that's when it becomes an issue in which intervention saves money for the company. Also, I would imagine TAK would be quicker to fix defects. They have a smaller clientele than celestron and have greater need to protect there name because of it. If Celesteon fails to act promptly for one customer, they have hundreds more that will still buy. In their case it makes more sense to let the dealer deal with the defective item, whether it be Astronomics, Optcorp or whoever. It doesn't help that individual that got the one off like the OP, but that's economies of scale.

Edited by Seanem44 (08/17/13 10:07 AM)


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Spacetravelerx
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6030622 - 08/17/13 10:21 AM

Quote:

I look at it from an economics and business admin perspective, my two disciplines, and I agree with Skip. There is a difference between mass produced In China items, and high cost luxury items made elsewhere. For example, in the world of astronomy, take Takahashi items versus Celestron. I am willing to bet the failure rate of Tak products is vastly less than Celestron. Why? You get what you pay for. In this case, its akin to a Ferrari versus a Ford. A handcrafted luxury item. 100 percent inspection on all aspects of a mass produced item is impractical when the failure rate is minimal. Hence my lambasted take one for the team statement. If there is a pattern; that's when it becomes an issue in which intervention saves money for the company. Also, I would imagine TAK would be quicker to fix defects. They have a smaller clientele than celestron and have greater need to protect there name because of it. If Celesteon fails to act promptly for one customer, they have hundreds more that will still buy. In their case it makes more sense to let the dealer deal with the defective item, whether it be Astronomics, Optcorp or whoever. It doesn't help that individual that got the one off like the OP, but that's economies of scale.




Of course this is not 100% true, but is a good general guide.

For example, iPhones and MacBooks are excellent quality, top of the line luxury products and they are manufactured and mass produced in China.

But, yes you do get what you pay for.


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Seanem44
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #6030666 - 08/17/13 10:45 AM

Correct. As a general rule, this is correct. But as you pointed out, there are exceptions to the rule.

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Laminarman
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Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Seanem44]
      #6040811 - 08/22/13 09:22 PM

I am the original poster here, and finally an update. I received a replacement mount today. Plugged it in, works. Imagine that. So yes, there may have been a bad mount that slipped. So what? That DOES NOT MATTER, I will continue to buy Celestron products. But from who?

NOW, and I don't want to complain because I got a new EQ head, but OPT could have handled this differently. Vinnie told me to send it back and when he had a tracking number to call him, he'd send one right out. He also said "Do NOT write or mark on the original box the mount was in since we re-use them and Celestron gives us a hard time." So I had Pack-N-Mail put it in a bigger box, put peanuts in it, pack it up and ship it for $55 since I respected his request and felt he would attempt to reciprocate. I told him I paid shipping so if he could expedite it for my upcoming nights of observing I would appreciate it greatly. He said "I'll do what I can." Took a whole week to get here ground. The $55 is not the big deal, I can afford that, I just think it could have been handled better so I'm not sure where my next purchase comes from. So now two weeks later almost, finally have a mount and it's freaking raining....

I don't expect them to not make a profit, but maybe two or three day would have been nice rather than eight day. Sure would have assured my future business with them. Or maybe they could have reimbursed what I paid to ship it to them. I could have slapped a label on the original box and shipped it for $30 and not worried about what Celestron told them.

I try not to be too critical, but I run a business and the customer service is reflected in what the employees do when things go WRONG, not right. Service Recovery is what separates the men from the boys in retail. I like OPT, just a bit disappointed in this transaction.

I will post a first light when it stops raining, I'm just not sure anyone will learn anything from this newbie...


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nodalpoint
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6040818 - 08/22/13 09:27 PM

They should have picked up the return shipping. The product didn't work, you did nothing wrong so why should you be made to pay extra for a faulty item?

The bright side is, you have choices who to purchase from.


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beanerds
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Reged: 07/15/08

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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Dave M]
      #6041190 - 08/23/13 03:12 AM

Bang on , my brand new IoptronIEQ45 would not boot up , kept saying 'initialise firmware ' ??? , I posted here and had it fixed in 5 minuites , it was the micro sim in the hand controller , it had worked loose in transport , unscrewed 4 screws and removed the back , slipped it back in and 3 years later its not missed a beat .
Thanks CN's people .
Perfect goto's every time , I love mine .
Brian.
Quote:

Because someone else may experienced the same issue and had a simple/immediate remedy.




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Susan H
member


Reged: 08/01/13

Loc: Texas
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: beanerds]
      #6041244 - 08/23/13 05:05 AM

I've been following this thread, and I'm about to go through the same thing. I purchased my AVX mount Wednesday, I couldn't take it out until last night. Plugged it in with the AC adapter I purchased. Nothing. Then we tried the supplied DC adapter, still nothing. It worked Wednesday when I was given a tutorial on how it worked. Then we packed it back into the box for me to bring home. Put it all back together like instructed and zip. So, I guess I'm taking back to the dealer and getting a new one. Buggers.

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Laminarman
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Reged: 08/25/06

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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Susan H]
      #6041432 - 08/23/13 08:49 AM

So, two dead on arrivals? It's a neat mount, I just need to figure out how to use it now. Tonight should be clear...

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dragonslayer1
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Reged: 02/25/12

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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: Susan H]
      #6041447 - 08/23/13 08:55 AM

Dittos on OPT customer service... I have had it with ordering a componet then after a few days,,,, we dont have item in stock... An e-mail/phone call notification would be nice and they are not alone. I prefer to give buisness to Astro-specific places but have about had it with some of them... Would a notification via e-mail with a tracking number be so bad or difficult? On-line bundlers (amazon) do it????? Just a side note, the $55.00 you put out for shipping that was not reimbersed,,, I wonder how much that could cost them from lost buisness????
Kasey


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pdxmoon
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Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6041773 - 08/23/13 12:11 PM

When an item does not work, it should be the vendor's responsibility to reclaim it at their cost. Period. At least, that's what my Daddy taught me on how to run a business.

I'll be carefully checking the return policy fine print before anyone gets my business from now on.


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Susan H
member


Reged: 08/01/13

Loc: Texas
Re: NOT a good start. Celestron AVX here a NO GO new [Re: pdxmoon]
      #6041980 - 08/23/13 02:32 PM

I'm impressed with where I purchased my AVX from. I took it back this morning, they checked it out, still didn't work. They called Celestron and a new one is on it's way. Suppose to be here next week. Stay tuned...

Edited by Susan H (08/23/13 02:33 PM)


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greedyshark
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6046151 - 08/25/13 10:55 PM

I'm surprised that OPT did not pick up the return shipping. I would have demanded it given the mount was DOA. Thanks for the warning.

Charles


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Susan H
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Loc: Texas
Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: greedyshark]
      #6065359 - 09/05/13 10:53 PM

Update on my AVX mount. I got it back today and plugged it in, nothing! I got my household current cord, it fired right up. I didn't have it plugged in all the way to my power tank. Once that was corrected it did fine. Now, I just have to figure out how to use it. It's pretty straight forward, but I'm so new to this I don't want to break it.

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seawolfe
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Susan H]
      #6065611 - 09/06/13 05:38 AM

Do you have a bad power supply plug? If the mount is good back from Celestron / dealer, then is your power cord (either DC plug or AC adapter) bad?

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Susan H
member


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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: seawolfe]
      #6065806 - 09/06/13 10:07 AM

I didn't have it pushed into the power tank all the way. Once that was corrected it did just fine. Today I'm going to set it up in my living room and "play", to try and figure things out. I do have a question regarding the clutches. How tight should they be? I left them completely off and it went every where. But, I realized later after watching a video someone posted, the OTA is not balanced. Duh. I balanced the RA side okay. I figure once I get every thing in balance it's just a matter of getting out there and tracking. I plan in getting up early tomorrow morning and checking out Jupiter, M42 and other goodies in that area.

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MartinTreadgold
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Susan H]
      #6065810 - 09/06/13 10:10 AM

I lock my clutches all the way. well, don't force them, but they should be secure

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dragonslayer1
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: MartinTreadgold]
      #6065819 - 09/06/13 10:16 AM

just a little below and north of jupiter you should see mars as well,,, good viewing to you,
Kasey


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Laminarman
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6065857 - 09/06/13 10:37 AM

I have a dumb question, somewhat related. If I view tonight, and my scope gets slightly dewy wet (SV 102ED), can i cover it with a cover (like a BBQ grill cover) and leave it OK? Does anyone worry about the dew trapped under the cover? The plan is to hibernate it while I grab some shut eye then get up again and view.

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Spacetravelerx
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Reged: 12/23/12

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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6065889 - 09/06/13 10:49 AM

Quote:

I have a dumb question, somewhat related. If I view tonight, and my scope gets slightly dewy wet (SV 102ED), can i cover it with a cover (like a BBQ grill cover) and leave it OK? Does anyone worry about the dew trapped under the cover? The plan is to hibernate it while I grab some shut eye then get up again and view.




Laminarman,

Well I don't have as much dew in New Mexico as you may have, but I do worry about rain. For my LX850, I temporarily went with a BBQ cover for the mount, using a 1" nylon strap around the middle to hold it in place. This worked surprisingly well.

Now I have a Telegizmos 365 cover (there are several models to choose from). Folks even in Florida and the soggy SE have had great success with it.


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MartinTreadgold
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Spacetravelerx]
      #6065898 - 09/06/13 10:53 AM

You can buy a Dew Shield and Dew Heating system when in use, but, I wouldn't leave your scope unnecessarily outside when not in use.

Dew Shield and Dew Heater should be enough.


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Laminarman
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: MartinTreadgold]
      #6066064 - 09/06/13 12:40 PM

I'm not getting dew on the lenses, the whole scope seems to get "moist." I'm more concerned about doing this over and over and getting corrosion from moisture on metal?

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Susan H
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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Laminarman]
      #6067566 - 09/07/13 10:43 AM

There may be another issue now. I start a two star alignment and the RA motor does it's thing, but the Dec motor does nothing, you can hear it, but nothing moves. What am I missing here? I've made sure that the scope is balanced and that I've done a polar alignment as well. The clutches are loose, but not too loose. Could the dec motor have gone out? I try the direction arrows (up and down) nothing happens, or it's incredibly slow and I can't see it. The cable to the dec motor is connected too. Could it be bad? I've followed the instructions to the letter. HELP!

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John608
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Reged: 03/24/12

Loc: California
Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Susan H]
      #6067633 - 09/07/13 11:29 AM

HI Susan,
Since you say you can hear the motor running but the mount is not moving in Dec it sounds like the clutches need to be tightened. The clutches need to be tight for the motors to engage with the axis of the telescope. If the clutches are loose you can move the mount on its axis without the motors being on, when the clutches are tight the axis will only move in direct response to the motors. You want the clutches tight most of the time, the only time to loosen them is to manually return the mount to its index positions, or balance the mount when mounting a scope.

John G.


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dragonslayer1
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Reged: 02/25/12

Loc: SLC, UT
Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: John608]
      #6067676 - 09/07/13 11:50 AM

Why are the clutches loose when using the electronics (motors) to drive the unit?
Kasey


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Susan H
member


Reged: 08/01/13

Loc: Texas
Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: John608]
      #6067679 - 09/07/13 11:52 AM

John thank you! Problem solved! Went and tightened up the clutches and it tracked just right! Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'll be out tonight under the stars looking around.

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Susan H
member


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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6067684 - 09/07/13 11:54 AM

Hey Kasey, cause I'm such a noob at this! John helped out. I'm on a learning curve here.

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dragonslayer1
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Reged: 02/25/12

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Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: Susan H]
      #6067744 - 09/07/13 12:38 PM

LOL we all been there and done that
Kasey


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John608
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Loc: California
Re: Celestron AVX here a NO GO *UPDATE* new [Re: dragonslayer1]
      #6067815 - 09/07/13 01:25 PM

Great Susan! I remember that as like so many things in life I learned it the hard way! Have fun looking up!

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