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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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edwincjones
Close Enough
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: JustaBoy]
      #6032361 - 08/18/13 07:45 AM

there is no" best" for the milky way

I prefer naked eye for seeing the forest instead of the trees,
my 13 degree 5x32 miyauchis come next
for the trees bigger is better

depends on the whole item or individual DSOs

edj


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Grimnir]
      #6032415 - 08/18/13 08:41 AM

Quote:

Given the choice of an aberrated outer field or no outer field at all I would take the aberrated outer field every time. Wouldn't you?

Graham




Graham:

Not really.. there is a point at which the edge aberrations become distracting, when a bright star is such a mess that it bears no resemblance to a round point or dot, when a brighter field star is obviously astigmatic and a dim field star disappears.

These extreme widefields are the result of short focal length objectives and most often simple eyepiece designs pushed to the limit so in the outer field you have the combination of astigmatism from the eyepiece and field curvature from the objective.

My calculation for the field curvature at the edge of a pair of 7x35s with a 10 degree TFoV is 1.6mm, that's based on an F/4 objective. At F/4 this means the blur is 0.4mm at the focal plane and will be magnified 7x... And we are not using Naglers here to handle the astigmatism.

There is a point where I find a narrower field of view is preferable. In this situation, since the aperture and field of view are open, I generally choose a somewhat larger binocular that is better corrected, probably due to a smaller amount of field curvature over an ulta wide field design.

The larger binocular can have the same generous AFoV but reduced aberrations.

Jon


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bumm
sage


Reged: 01/07/11

Loc: Iowa
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: JustaBoy]
      #6032432 - 08/18/13 08:54 AM

I simply couldn't afford extremely wide angle binos with a perfectly flat field. Given that reality, I love my cheaper wide angle 7x35's. Would a perfectly flat field be better? Sure, but the SLIGHTLY distorted field is much better than nothing.
Marty


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John_G
sage


Reged: 01/18/10

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6032482 - 08/18/13 09:34 AM

Quote:

What is the best binocular for viewing the milky way, the overall structure with star and dark clouds from a dark site ( 21.5 mag/arcsec^2) ?

with many thanks in advance

Thomas




For scanning activities from a very dark site I like my 8x40s to see structure. The variety of shades and patterns of dark and bright nebula seem to really stand out. They feel good in the hand, they're a comfortable weight and give me a nice and steady view.


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Andresin150
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/14/07

Loc: Bogotá - La Calera / Colombia
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: John_G]
      #6032509 - 08/18/13 09:49 AM

I like "perfect" images and really wide AFovs. Regardless magnification, my three preferred binoculars give me that, the Docters giving considerably more Afov at the expense of aperture...
Mounted not very portable: Fujinon 40x150ED
Mounted but portable: Docter Aspectem 40x80ED
Handheld: Swarovision 8x32 and SW 10x42EL

For what I've read, the Kowa Prominar 32x82 softness in the edge is not distracting, so they may well be also in the second cathegory (soon), but really distorted edges are unacceptable to me... I'm in the smaller group that would choose a near perfect edge/small Afov over the opposite.


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Grimnir
super member


Reged: 04/28/10

Loc: London, England.
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6032748 - 08/18/13 12:12 PM

Jon,

Quote:

there is a point at which the edge aberrations become distracting




I have only ever looked through one binocular where the outer field was distracting to the point where I would have preferred not to have had it.

With a wide field you have greater context and can readily detect movement in the outer field as Glenn has pointed out. I had three satellites in a single 11.5* field a few evenings ago and that field was much more immersive than the the 8.8* field of my Nikon 8x30 EII.

Graham


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Grimnir]
      #6032836 - 08/18/13 01:06 PM

As I often point out, if you gaze toward the field center, even pretty bad edge-of-field aberration is hardly perceived as such by the non-foveal retina. Peripheral vision is of notoriously low resolving power, but it's sensitive to both light and motion; very useful to have a more expansive view when star hopping or general panning. Even surprisingly subtle 'fuzzies' call attention to themselves as they enter the field edge, in spite of the aberrations. I continually marvel at just how potent is the peripheral vision in differentiating a not glaringly obvious DSO from even sizeably blurred stars.

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KennyJ
The British Flash
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Reged: 04/27/03

Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #6033260 - 08/18/13 05:30 PM

Graham et al,

To clarify my preference, I prefer views through Plossl-like eyepieces with around 50 degrees of "mainly sharp", very nicely framed stars, such as what is seen through Captain's Helmsman 7x50, to views through Orion Expanse 7x32, with around 84 degrees AFOV, around 40 degrees of which only is sharp, the rest being little more than a blur, especially with practically non-existent eye-relief.

So in short, my answer to your question is "no".

Kenny


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JustaBoy
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 06/19/12

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: KennyJ]
      #6033266 - 08/18/13 05:34 PM

I'm with you, Kenny - Thanks!
-Chuck


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #6033335 - 08/18/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

As I often point out, if you gaze toward the field center, even pretty bad edge-of-field aberration is hardly perceived as such by the non-foveal retina. Peripheral vision is of notoriously low resolving power, but it's sensitive to both light and motion; very useful to have a more expansive view when star hopping or general panning. Even surprisingly subtle 'fuzzies' call attention to themselves as they enter the field edge, in spite of the aberrations. I continually marvel at just how potent is the peripheral vision in differentiating a not glaringly obvious DSO from even sizeably blurred stars.




Glenn:

I have to admit that I am coming at this from the standpoint of someone who primarily observes with a telescope. In the telescope world, wide apparent fields of view that are well illuminated and free from aberrations like field curvature, coma, and astigmatism are possible and bright off-axis stars can be quite distracting. And too, smaller fainter objects are detectable off-axis with a better corrected view.

Still, I think there is no one best tool, one best magnification aperture, field of view for observing the Milky Way, they are all good in their own way. A 10 degree TFoV in a 7x35mm binocular shows certain scale. A 1.7 degree TFoV in a 12.5 inch telescope at 38x shows a certain scale. One is not better than the other, they are different and wonderful in their own way.

Jon


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #6033515 - 08/18/13 08:01 PM

+1. And better yet, most of us get to choose both, or, more likely, more.

Dark skies.

Jack


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Joe Ogiba]
      #6033677 - 08/18/13 10:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What is the best binocular for viewing the milky way, the overall structure with star and dark clouds from a dark site ( 21.5 mag/arcsec^2) ?

I am presently considering the Nikon Action EX 7x35 with 9.3 degree FOV or 8x40 with 8 degree FOV, the Kowa 6x30 with 8 degree FOV seems to be to narrow (48 degree AFOV).

with many thanks in advance

Thomas




For panning the milkyway in general I like the blue planet 2.3x40 Galilean opera glasses (advertised 28 deg TFOV and near zero eye relief). 2nd choice 7x40 Orion UW 14 deg FOV. Neither are made in the US anymore. Vixen Ascot 8x50mm UW are pretty god too for handholding.



I have the 7x32 Orion Expanse with 14 deg FOV but did not know there was a 7x40 version made in the US . When were they made in the US ?




Sorry, I was going from memory. You are correct they wer Orion 7x32 UW 14 deg TFOV. I also had an 8x40UW 9.4 TFOV 5mm exit pupil that I liked, as well as the 10x50 SW Vixen Ascot 8.5 deg TFOV 5mm exit pupil 7mm eye relief.


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Mr. Bill
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: faackanders2]
      #6034280 - 08/19/13 10:28 AM

I find my Fuji 10x50 FMT SX with 65 degree afov (6.5 real fov) to be ideal for looking at the MW "forest."

A flat, well corrected to the edge fov, and very good edge of field illumination which these have is "my cup of tea."



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Man in a Tub
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Reged: 10/28/08

Loc: Fogpatch, CA
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6035620 - 08/19/13 11:42 PM

Quote:

I find my Fuji 10x50 FMT SX with 65 degree afov (6.5 real fov) to be ideal for looking at the MW "forest."

A flat, well corrected to the edge fov, and very good edge of field illumination which these have is "my cup of tea."






Ed Z measured the Fujinon 10x50 FMT-SX TFOV at 6.7°. To the best of my ability, I have confirmed that measurement. Not that one should doubt Ed's tests.


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Man in a Tub]
      #6035630 - 08/19/13 11:49 PM

Even better....

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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6036142 - 08/20/13 10:09 AM

Yes, not often a bino or scope is better than advertised!

As good as the nikon 12x50se is, the Fuji 10x50 FMT still beats it on milky way sweeping due to the huge AFOV and the sheer number of stars it puts into each field of view.

Doesn't hurt that the contrast is excellent too.


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KennyJ
The British Flash
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Reged: 04/27/03

Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: RichD]
      #6036392 - 08/20/13 12:24 PM

Plaudits for the Fujinon FMTSX 10x50 only serve to agree with my previously declared preference.

For example, several of us have or have owned Swift Audubon Kestrel 10x50 with an even wider AFOV than the Fuji, yet I can't recall a single user rating it a favourite for astro use!

Kenny


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steve@37n83.9w
sage


Reged: 01/20/11

Loc: Kentucky
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: RichD]
      #6036407 - 08/20/13 12:32 PM

For bino viewing my favorite areas of the Milky Way are the dense star fields around Cygnus and the binos I use most are my Fujinon and PIF 10x50s. Higher magnifications let you see deeper and lower magnifications let you see more area but I think the wide field views of a premium 10x50 offer the best compromise when viewing the Milky Way.

Steve


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hallelujah
Post Laureate
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Reged: 07/14/06

Loc: North Star over Colorado
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way *DELETED* new [Re: KennyJ]
      #6036423 - 08/20/13 12:42 PM

Post deleted by hallelujah

Edited by hallelujah (08/21/13 11:01 AM)


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: hallelujah]
      #6036558 - 08/20/13 01:48 PM

Quote:


Perhaps you would be so kind as to clarify your comparison further.




The way I read Kenny's post, he was saying that the Swift Kestrel had an wider field of view than the Fujinonsbut no one he knew thought the Swifts were a great binocular.

The point being that a poorly corrected widefield of view is not necessarily an advantage, something that has been asserted by some...

Jon


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