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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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RichD
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 11/08/07

Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #6039607 - 08/22/13 05:33 AM

[quoteI'm actually more impressed with some of the binoculars that offer views that are sharp almost to the very edge but with a wider apparent fof such as the 10x50 FMTR-SX and 10x50 PIF.

Steve




Yes, it must be harder to achieve. With it's wider than advertised TFOV, the fujis AFOV is around 70 deg - wider than a Panoptic and with pretty much identical correction. That's incredible really at f/4 ish.


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MrJones
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Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: RichD]
      #6040036 - 08/22/13 12:25 PM

One of those fun CN threads.

My favorite Milky Way binoculars are my Celestron 15x70 SkyMasters.

I like the wider field views with smaller binoculars and seeing the bigger objects and multiple objects in one FOV but I always fairly quickly want to zoom in and see more.

My next favorite Milky Way binoculars will be whatever 15x70 I buy next.


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planetmalc
sage


Reged: 10/21/09

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6040154 - 08/22/13 01:29 PM

Quote:

I own a homemade 160 mm apochromatic double refractor with 2" eypieces (40 mm Pargagon, 17 mm Ethos..........

I am mainly looking for a handheld binocular with 6x -8x magnigication, a large FOV and large aperature. A wide angle binocular for viewing the milky way, the overall structure with star and dark clouds from a dark site ( 21.5 mag/arcsec^2)




Why not build your own? Get a couple of OG's of 4" to 5.5" focal length mounted in blackened tubes and team them up with your 17mm Ethos set. No prisms - the Milky Way looks the same whether it's upright or inverted - and you'll have a low-power UWA unit that will blow any commercial binocular away. Sadly, there'll be no 'retail therapy' dynamic with this option........


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: planetmalc]
      #6040200 - 08/22/13 01:52 PM

Quote:



Why not build your own? Get a couple of OG's of 4" to 5.5" focal length mounted in blackened tubes and team them up with your 17mm Ethos set. No prisms - the Milky Way looks the same whether it's upright or inverted - and you'll have a low-power UWA unit that will blow any commercial binocular away. Sadly, there'll be no 'retail therapy' dynamic with this option........




I second the idea of using mirrors instead of prisms.

My homemade 5 inch f/5.5 uses three mirrors (all 1/10 wave, one enhanced aluminum and two dielectric) to give erect, reversed images...the same as a diagonal in a refractor.

Much more contrast than any prism system, IMO and I own both Oberwerk BT100 45s and APM 100 45s and owned Fuji 25x150s so I have first hand knowledge of this.

Why someone doesn't run with this design commercially is a mystery to me.



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Andresin150
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Reged: 08/14/07

Loc: Bogotá - La Calera / Colombia
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6040209 - 08/22/13 01:57 PM

Probably because if advertised as binoculars, it would be very difficult to commercialize a reversed image instrument that most users would want for terrestrial use also....

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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

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Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Andresin150]
      #6040341 - 08/22/13 03:23 PM

Good point...

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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6041140 - 08/23/13 01:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Why not build your own? Get a couple of OG's of 4" to 5.5" focal length mounted in blackened tubes and team them up with your 17mm Ethos set. No prisms - the Milky Way looks the same whether it's upright or inverted - and you'll have a low-power UWA unit that will blow any commercial binocular away. Sadly, there'll be no 'retail therapy' dynamic with this option........




I second the idea of using mirrors instead of prisms.

My homemade 5 inch f/5.5 uses three mirrors (all 1/10 wave, one enhanced aluminum and two dielectric) to give erect, reversed images...the same as a diagonal in a refractor.

Much more contrast than any prism system, IMO and I own both Oberwerk BT100 45s and APM 100 45s and owned Fuji 25x150s so I have first hand knowledge of this.

Why someone doesn't run with this design commercially is a mystery to me.






Such binoculars are commerically available:

http://www.binoptic.de/

minimum lens diameter 80 mm but they are rather expensive.

There is also a secont alternativ with two mirrors ( 60 degree) giving an erected, non-reversed image.

http://www.aokswiss.ch/index_bino.html


those are using the Japanes EMS erecting mirror system. From my own experience with a 160 mm binocular, it makes use of the EMS mirrors - I can say that they give excellent constrast and transmission. If you look on the price tag, such design makes only sense for large instruments, you could proably make a 50 mm ultra wide angle binocular but it will cost more then the most recent Zeiss or Leitz binoculars, I guess.

Thomas

Edited by ThomasM (08/23/13 02:03 AM)


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dbx
sage
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Reged: 02/13/08

Loc: CA
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6041251 - 08/23/13 05:17 AM

I own the Nikon Action Extreme 7x35's and they are SUBLIME for gazing at the milkyway. I just did it for the recent meteor shower atop a pitch black mountain in the south west. These nikon's are awesome for the money and will satisfy an urge for larger AFOVº. I even bought a tripod mount adapter to use on a mount. Its great for terrestrial use all the same. GET THE NIKONS!

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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6041752 - 08/23/13 11:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Why not build your own? Get a couple of OG's of 4" to 5.5" focal length mounted in blackened tubes and team them up with your 17mm Ethos set. No prisms - the Milky Way looks the same whether it's upright or inverted - and you'll have a low-power UWA unit that will blow any commercial binocular away. Sadly, there'll be no 'retail therapy' dynamic with this option........




I second the idea of using mirrors instead of prisms.

My homemade 5 inch f/5.5 uses three mirrors (all 1/10 wave, one enhanced aluminum and two dielectric) to give erect, reversed images...the same as a diagonal in a refractor.

Much more contrast than any prism system, IMO and I own both Oberwerk BT100 45s and APM 100 45s and owned Fuji 25x150s so I have first hand knowledge of this.

Why someone doesn't run with this design commercially is a mystery to me.






Such binoculars are commerically available:

http://www.binoptic.de/

minimum lens diameter 80 mm but they are rather expensive.

There is also a secont alternativ with two mirrors ( 60 degree) giving an erected, non-reversed image.

http://www.aokswiss.ch/index_bino.html


those are using the Japanes EMS erecting mirror system. From my own experience with a 160 mm binocular, it makes use of the EMS mirrors - I can say that they give excellent constrast and transmission. If you look on the price tag, such design makes only sense for large instruments, you could proably make a 50 mm ultra wide angle binocular but it will cost more then the most recent Zeiss or Leitz binoculars, I guess.

Thomas




There is no inherent reason that mirrored binoculars should be expensive...I built mine for under $3000 and I'll put it up against any commercial binocular for optical quality for its intended purpose....viewing Milky Way structure.


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6041827 - 08/23/13 12:45 PM Attachment (7 downloads)

Here's the part list....not included in parts list are TV 19mm Pans $500/pr, 24mm Pans $600/pr. Both eps produce pinpoint star images across entire fov.

Edited by Mr. Bill (08/23/13 02:08 PM)


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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6041865 - 08/23/13 01:12 PM

Quote:



There is no inherent reason that mirrored binoculars should be expensive...I built mine for under $3000 and I'll put it up against any commercial binocular for optical quality for its intended purpose....viewing Milky Way structure.




I agree, if you do everything yourself, then a mirrored binocular may be not so expensive, but if you buy the necessary parts, e.g. the EMS erecting mirrors, apochromatic lenses then you can easily spend a lot of money. I think all the effort only makes sense if you built a large instrument as you did (and I did too). I think for the price it does not to so much matter if you use prisms or mirrors. The prims better suit for mass production in small comercial binocular, mirrors are better for large binoculars with interchangle eypieces allowing high magnification.

Thomas

p.s. making a small ultra wide field (more than 10 degrees FOV), rather large aperture 50 to 70 mm binocular seems to me intersting, but it will not be cheap, you need two 100 degree eypieces (Ethos 17mm, may be Ethos 13 mm, ES are to thick). I was considering that but (so far came) to the conclusion that purchaising a comerical binocular (Nikon, Zeiss?) is much easier. Sure, you do not get the ultimate performance in terms of FOV, aperture, edge sharpnes

Edited by ThomasM (08/23/13 01:22 PM)


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PowellAstro
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6041903 - 08/23/13 01:34 PM

@ Mr. Bill

Do you have any pictures posted or can you please post some?


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6041916 - 08/23/13 01:46 PM

Quote:


I agree, if you do everything yourself, then a mirrored binocular may be not so expensive, but if you buy the necessary parts, e.g. the EMS erecting mirrors, apochromatic lenses then you can easily spend a lot of money.





My point was that you DON'T have to spend a lot of money IF you use a three mirror system and achromat lens set.

Quote:


I think all the effort only makes sense if you built a large instrument as you did (and I did too). I think for the price it does not to so much matter if you use prisms or mirrors.




My point was that mirror systems are inherently superior to prism systems and will produce better contrast.

Quote:


The prims better suit for mass production in small comercial binocular, mirrors are better for large binoculars with interchangle eypieces allowing high magnification.





I agree...


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

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Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: PowellAstro]
      #6041975 - 08/23/13 02:30 PM

Quote:

@ Mr. Bill

Do you have any pictures posted or can you please post some?




http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5262069


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GlennLeDrew
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6041996 - 08/23/13 02:41 PM

In the ultra-wide AFoV department, I do use 13mm Ethos eyepieces (100 degree) on my home-made right-angle bino, yielding:
12.7X50, 7.7 degrees
20.8X60, 4.7 degrees

If I obtained the 17mm Ethoi:
9.7X50, 10 degrees (but field curvature would be worse)
15.9X60, 6.2 degrees.


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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6042008 - 08/23/13 02:50 PM

Quote:



http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5262069




Thanks a lot and congratulation, the instrument looks very nice, I saw your posts when you started to project but I didn't followed to the end.
By the way, what is the weight of the instrument?

best regards

Thomas


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

Loc: Northeastern Cal
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: ThomasM]
      #6042014 - 08/23/13 02:54 PM

30 pounds including eps and finder...

The bulk of the weight is the mount with counterweight..

about 55 pounds but rock steady which is certainly necessary for higher magnification.

The 21 pound counterweight can be left off without affecting viewing stability, but I aways feel better if used to equalize weight distribution on this alti azimuth mount.

Edited by Mr. Bill (08/23/13 03:07 PM)


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PowellAstro
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6042108 - 08/23/13 03:59 PM

@ Mr. Bill,

I checked out your other thread. They are awesome and look great! One question, how do you keep the last pair of diags square to each other? What locks them in a vertical position for collimation?


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Mr. Bill
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Reged: 02/09/05

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Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: PowellAstro]
      #6042153 - 08/23/13 04:20 PM

Use a carpenter's small All Square referenced to top surface and secure with 2 inch diagonal lock screw...

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PowellAstro
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Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: Tennessee
Re: best binocular for viewing milky way new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #6042196 - 08/23/13 04:43 PM

They are very nice and I am sure the views are very good. I am interested in this is the only reason for the questions. Do, you get any rotational error, if the two large 2" diags are not swung the same amount together?

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