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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: sneutrino]
      #6023812 - 08/13/13 07:37 PM

.

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sneutrino
super member


Reged: 08/08/09

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #6024171 - 08/13/13 11:14 PM

Does anyone know what, if any, lubricant/grease is supposed to goes on the large aluminum cylinder (see 6th picture in http://astronomer.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Equipment&action=display&... ) ? I'm having trouble with this on the DEC axis. I never actually removed the one on the RA axis so I had no problem.

With super lube synthetic grease on it, it is difficult to put on, and very resistant to movement when it's on. This is still true but to a lesser extent when I remove most of the super lube from it.

I wonder if it's supposed to have no lube , or a different kind of lube.

I also have Super Lube Dri-Film lubricant which is a WD-40 like solution, I might try that, but am interested to know if anyone has insight on this...

edit: I might use regular WD-40, I am not so sure about this dri-film stuff, as it leaves a fine teflon powder which has some not so nice properties.

edit2: Certainly the geared part of the cylinder should have grease. I'm asking about the rest of it.

Edited by sneutrino (08/13/13 11:39 PM)


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: sneutrino]
      #6024229 - 08/13/13 11:54 PM

Quote:

Does anyone know what, if any, lubricant/grease is supposed to goes on the large aluminum cylinder (see 6th picture in http://astronomer.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Equipment&action=display&... ) ? I'm having trouble with this on the DEC axis. I never actually removed the one on the RA axis so I had no problem.

With super lube synthetic grease on it, it is difficult to put on, and very resistant to movement when it's on. This is still true but to a lesser extent when I remove most of the super lube from it.

I wonder if it's supposed to have no lube , or a different kind of lube.

I also have Super Lube Dri-Film lubricant which is a WD-40 like solution, I might try that, but am interested to know if anyone has insight on this...

edit: I might use regular WD-40, I am not so sure about this dri-film stuff, as it leaves a fine teflon powder which has some not so nice properties.

edit2: Certainly the geared part of the cylinder should have grease. I'm asking about the rest of it.




There are two problems here. First and foremost is the fit of the ring gear. The metal to metal surfaces on the gear and the axis casting must be sanded and polished to fit better and smoothly. Once that is done, then you can move on to lubing things and should use SuperLube for this. The Dri-Film might work if you already have it, but normal SuperLube all-purpose grease works just fine. The key is to use a very small amount. The best way to do that is to put some lube on the inside of the ring gear, slide it into place and turn it around a bit, then remove the gear and wipe the inside surface of the gear off. When you replace the gear again, as long as you didn't use too much lube in the first place, the remaining thin coating of lube is all you will need.

If you are having problems either getting things back together or having them be too stiff to turn, then there is a good chance you are not doing these things correctly. In addition, The metal to metal surface between the axis casting and the axis housing must be treated the same way. They need to be sanded a bit and polished and then a very thin coating of lube applied.

The DEC axis of the CG-5 is consistently one of the most difficult things that I tune up. There are so many metal to metal contact surfaces and no bearings that it is a constant struggle to get things moving and they rarely end up moving as freely as I would like. All the contact surfaces must be properly fit and move easily before any lube is applied and then after the lube it applied (even a thin layer) you may find that you need to go back and do more work.


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sneutrino
super member


Reged: 08/08/09

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: EFT]
      #6024307 - 08/14/13 12:41 AM

I want to sand and polish it since it got nearly stuck twice with super lube grease, and then with the dri-film, which was stressful.

Should I use a silicon carbide sandpaper at 600 grit, then move to 1000 and 2500 grit?
http://home.howstuffworks.com/polish-metal-sandpaper.htm


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: sneutrino]
      #6024319 - 08/14/13 12:47 AM

Quote:

I want to sand and polish it since it got nearly stuck twice with super lube grease, and then with the dri-film, which was stressful.

Should I use a silicon carbide sandpaper at 600 grit, then move to 1000 and 2500 grit?
http://home.howstuffworks.com/polish-metal-sandpaper.htm




That's a good plan. You can even start with 400 but you probably don't need to go further than 1000 or 1200. Finish up with some aluminum polish when you are done sanding.


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sneutrino
super member


Reged: 08/08/09

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: EFT]
      #6025969 - 08/14/13 08:48 PM

Everything is done, including the DEC, with some Dry-Film and a little grease, after sanding/polishing. The DEC is noticeably smoother with a quieter motor now.

I ended up adjusting the worm gear position set screws slightly, erring slightly on the side of allowing backlash, as opposed to letting the gears chew on each other.

Aside from cleaning the massive sand/dirt issue, I hope that I improved more things that I made worse. Mainly, the smaller brass gear on the RA is no longer in perfect condition. The larger gear has cosmetic damage so that I could get it back on. Those were hard to work with.


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Falcon-
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Reged: 09/11/09

Loc: Gambier Island, BC, Canada
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: EFT]
      #6026425 - 08/15/13 02:30 AM

sneutrino: Hope you do not mind a minor sidetrack here but...

Ed: Can I ask for a bit of clarification? You said:
Quote:

First and foremost is the fit of the ring gear. The metal to metal surfaces on the gear and the axis casting must be sanded and polished to fit better and smoothly. Once that is done, then you can move on to lubing things and should use SuperLube for this.



To me that sounds like you are suggesting the surfaces be dry test-fit prior to applying lubricant. I am assuming this is incorrect.... is it?


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: Falcon-]
      #6026430 - 08/15/13 02:46 AM

Quote:

sneutrino: Hope you do not mind a minor sidetrack here but...

Ed: Can I ask for a bit of clarification? You said:
Quote:

First and foremost is the fit of the ring gear. The metal to metal surfaces on the gear and the axis casting must be sanded and polished to fit better and smoothly. Once that is done, then you can move on to lubing things and should use SuperLube for this.



To me that sounds like you are suggesting the surfaces be dry test-fit prior to applying lubricant. I am assuming this is incorrect.... is it?




In general, dry fitting is a dangerous proposition and I do not recommend that people do it without taking great care. That said, I dry fit gears all the time to be sure that the everything is clean and there is nothing left in their to scratch things up and cause trouble. But I have a lot of practice and a good feel for how much things must be worked before it is relatively safe to dry fit. Even then, I am very careful and put things together slowly and evenly. It is important to have smoothed out the surfaces very well and polish them to a reasonable level before trying to dry fit. It is the rough, unpolished gears that may slide together and then get stuck.

Once again, the CG-5 DEC axis in particular is very difficult to deal with since there are no ball bearings for the ring gear or the axis casting to ride on. So it is possible to sand things too much. However, because most of the sanding and polishing must be done by hand I find that people get tired of doing that long before they get to the point that they have gone too far.

I hope maybe that cleared it up a bit.


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sneutrino
super member


Reged: 08/08/09

Loc: San Jose, CA
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears new [Re: EFT]
      #6027199 - 08/15/13 01:36 PM

EFT, if you have seen the internals, would you say that the Celestron CVX, and CGEM have significant mechanical improvements over the CG-5?

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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
*****

Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Cleaning CG-5 ASGT internal gears [Re: sneutrino]
      #6031013 - 08/17/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

EFT, if you have seen the internals, would you say that the Celestron CVX, and CGEM have significant mechanical improvements over the CG-5?




Just got back in town.

The AVX does not have significant mechanical improvements over the CG-5 but does have some improvements that make it a better choice. The CGEM does have significant mechanical improvements over the CG-5 that put it in a different class of mount. Except for the use of ring gears in both mounts, the CGEM is significantly different from the CG-5 and would always be my recommendation when deciding between the two.


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